Stockrington - Mojo ignited. Thanks, Heljan!

[jukebox]

The sleeper awakes.

 

Welcome back, old followers and new visitors.

 

After a much longer hibernation than I had envisaged, I am finally getting to a place where I feel like working on Stockrington once more. A new job in the rail industry, and arrival before Christmas of my Hornby P2 went a long way to keeping the ember glowing, and with longer nights and cooler weather on the way, I feel the urge to get on and make some positive progress.

 

There is much to do, and my own goalposts for the layout that I set out in Post #1 have changed somewhat, as I will detail in coming weeks, but yesterday I placed an order for four pairs of small radius turnouts, to complete the division of my storage tracks.  

 

Once these arrive, I intend to restart work in earnest, completing all of the storage, and getting back into the swing of trackbed and layout building.

[Andrew P]

Hi Scott, good to see your back amongst us and looking to get modelling again.

 

I'm looking forward to seeing what your new ideas are but just a little concerned that you mention SMALL Radius Points and a P2 in the same post, I'm not sure the P2 will traverse the small radius point satisfactorily.

 

All the best.

[David Todd]

The sleeper awakes.

 

Welcome back, old followers and new visitors.

 

After a much longer hibernation than I had envisaged, I am finally getting to a place where I feel like working on Stockrington once more. A new job in the rail industry, and arrival before Christmas of my Hornby P2 went a long way to keeping the ember glowing, and with longer nights and cooler weather on the way, I feel the urge to get on and make some positive progress.

 

There is much to do, and my own goalposts for the layout that I set out in Post #1 have changed somewhat, as I will detail in coming weeks, but yesterday I placed an order for four pairs of small radius turnouts, to complete the division of my storage tracks.  

 

Once these arrive, I intend to restart work in earnest, completing all of the storage, and getting back into the swing of trackbed and layout building.

 

 

 

Welcome return Scott, .

[jcredfer]

Maybe that light wasn't a Loco coming the other way after all  .......

 

The sleeper awakes.

 

Welcome back, old followers and new visitors.

 

After a much longer hibernation than I had envisaged, I am finally getting to a place where I feel like working on Stockrington once more. A new job in the rail industry, and arrival before Christmas of my Hornby P2 went a long way to keeping the ember glowing, and with longer nights and cooler weather on the way, I feel the urge to get on and make some positive progress.

 

There is much to do, and my own goalposts for the layout that I set out in Post #1 have changed somewhat, as I will detail in coming weeks, but yesterday I placed an order for four pairs of small radius turnouts, to complete the division of my storage tracks.  

 

Once these arrive, I intend to restart work in earnest, completing all of the storage, and getting back into the swing of trackbed and layout building.

 

....      Welcome back Scott   

 

Julian

[DougN]

Welcome back jukebox, hope life is getting back on the level. Modelling will be a good distraction from life!

[emt_911]

Welcome back Scott. Looking forward to hearing about the updated plans.

[Markeg]

Welcome back Scott.  Look forward to seeing/reading the changed plans.

 

Mark

[jukebox]

Thanks all for the warm wishes.  They are greatly appreciated.

 

 

Hi Scott, good to see your back amongst us and looking to get modelling again.

 

I'm looking forward to seeing what your new ideas are but just a little concerned that you mention SMALL Radius Points and a P2 in the same post, I'm not sure the P2 will traverse the small radius point satisfactorily.

 

All the best.

 

 

Fear not, Andy.  It was never my intention for the P2 to venture "down the chute" into the storage yards - the gradients and radii getting down there would make such a visit very uncomfortable - although the Bachmann 9F could do it. That's what my trio of Great Danes (Heljan diesel prototypes - Lion, Kestrel and Falcon) will be asked to do most of the time - drag stock up, and take them back down to store.  

 

These small radii turnouts are going to be added halfway along the storage sidings - one thing I learned in the few months I was playing with Stockrington 1.0 was that I could see trains getting blocked in behind one another on such long roads.  Adding a ladder of crossovers will not stop that, but should make it easier to operate the yard once it is built over by the scenic sections.

 

It has been some time since i looked at them, but I recall the track plans for the shed even included the provision for a number of roads that only used large radii turnouts for access, specifically so I could stable Cock O The North... and any Q6's should the DJM model come to fruition.

 

S

[great northern]

Great to hear from you Scott. Take it easy, and let things come back gradually. We shall look forward to hearing and seeing more when you are ready.

[jukebox]

Okay, so I'd rather not spend days explaining what I'm doing instead of doing it, so will try and keep the update to this one post.

 

In the few months I did actually start to run some trains around the storage track loop at Stockrington, and number of truths that conflicted with my original premise for the layout were laid bare.

 

In Post #1 of this thread, I had said:

 

I started out with a list of wants, and it looked something like this:

• A North Eastern theme: I’m 10,000 miles away from Darlington, but something about apple green, garter blue and teak has always held my interest.
• A steam loco shed: I’ve too many locomotives, and the only way to justify that is to have an MPD.
• Bridges: When I was 21, I travelled around the UK, looking at Victorian Civil Engineering from Brunel, Stephenson and Harrison, and was captivated. I want to capture a taste of that.
• A station with an overall roof, and platform length for a six coach train: William Bell’s designs for the NER always seem so majestic to me.
• A long run: I knew I would have a dedicated room for this project, and that the layout would be permanent, so a long run was desirable. That means a mainline.
• I’m a sucker for black sheep. P2’s. the W1, GT3, Lion, Deltic, 89001… even The Duke of Gloucester.
• And then there was some of the nuts and bolts stuff: 4mm, OO, Code 70 bullhead track, 850mm mainline radius, 2 1/2% maximum gradients, DCC for train control, slow motion point motors…

Two and a half years on, I have a bit more clarity.  Items 1 to 4 stand.  Although as I mature as a modeller, I am more keen to try and run authentic stock, so am thinking the layout will have two guises - an LNER-in-its-glory-days time frame, and then an early/mid BR period.  There may be a handful of exceptions to this, but I feel a lot less compunction about selling of stock that doesn't suit these goalposts now. LMS Princess Coronations will be consigned to eBay, as will a 90% complete DC Kits 89001.  

 

The biggest realisation from operating a layout on my own, is that a thrice-around-the-room run, while nice in theory, would not really have allowed me to have four trains on the move.  Well, it would have technically, but I would have gone stir crazy trying to control them.  And it would not have been enjoyable. 

 

And as a corollary to that, I really do want to get my teeth into some realistic scenery.  Three visible runs of double track would have precluded that.

 

 

So the revised Stockrington will be pared down to just one double track circuit of the room.  This will have the added bonus of all but eliminating the need for gradients on the mainline.  I may add a siding or two off the mainline to shunt, to provide operational interest, but that's a tweak as I get further into the build.  The "feature bridge" will remain a homage to the Monkwearmouth Bridge at Sunderland, and whilst I have not shown it on the sketch I've modded for this post, I will also look at trying to make the station arrangement a little more typically North Eastern, perhaps with bypass roads running outside the overall roof.

 

I am also not 100% happy with the Shinohara Code 70 turnouts.  They look great, but too much of my stock seems to ride up on the frogs - the flanges are hitting the bottom of the frog and lifting the tyres off the rail.  Even the Bachmann Proto Deltic suffers this fate.  The Peco Code 70 I have installed, even curved turnouts on 5% grades, have been flawless.  Inspired by LNER4479's work with modded Peco turnouts on Grantham, and Coachman's explorations into Peco Code 83, I'm all but sold on the idea of removing the Shinoharas laid to date, and replacing them with Code 70 and 83 Peco, modified or customised to suit individual locations as required.  Watch this space.

 

As I suggested elsewhere, another realisation is that long storage tracks are not always a blessing.  Therefore for the (relatively) small outlay of some short radius turnouts, I will be adding some ladders to the yard, so make the operation more flexible - as well as a rearward facing headshunt, as a shunting loco stabling point.

 

 

Surprisingly, one of the features I worried may cause grief, has not to date: the swing up bridge section in the doorway.  Of course it hasn't had a lot of use in the last 18 months, but still gives a reliable alignment, and has benefited from some pretty bulletproof construction.

 

So that's the broad brush stoke view... There's lots of details I need to resolve - especially how to use the increased space to best develop a feel of "trains in the landscape".  It would be foolish to think I can guess a timeline for the works, too.  I need to get back all the momentum I had.

 

But the good news is, I can feel my enthusiasm returning, and hopefully by trimming down some of the excesses of the original, the modified Stockrington can be an improvement on where I might have been headed.

 

Time will tell.

 

The first step will be to complete the storage sidings, and lay some temporary track opposite where the MPD will be, so that it forms a loop - in the modified plan, there will not be a way to loop traffic in a circuit around the room via the storage tracks - if you refer to the lower drawing, the open ends of that track no longer cross the mainlines to meet.  A temporary "slew" will give me some "play value" and a chance to ensure the tracklaying is up to scratch, before I build over the top with scenery.

 

I shall endeavour to update as progress warrants it.

 

Thanks again to all those who have welcomed me back - it feels good to be here once more.

 

Scott

Edited March 26, 2015 by jukebox

[LNER4479]

Hurrah! Great to see you back.

 

Although I never said it, I was never completely convinced on the thrice round the room concept (twice, maybe...) - the new plan looks great and more achievable.

 

Look forward to seeing it progress

[great northern]

Hurrah! Great to see you back.

 

Although I never said it, I was never completely convinced on the thrice round the room concept (twice, maybe...) - the new plan looks great and more achievable.

 

Look forward to seeing it progress

Total agreement here Scott. I always worried that you were being over ambitious, and that one man operation would turn out to be impossible. What you now suggest is much more achievable in a reasonable time scale, so you will be much less likely to feel over burdened and lose motivation. And you already know my views about gradients.   This will work, and look good too. I shall very much enjoy seeing it progress.

[jukebox]

And so after a few night's clean up, removing and packing away stock that last moved in October 2013, Stockrington is back in "construction ready" state.  It was, I must say, rather pleasing to see the locos move with little or no hesitation after their enforced 18-month hibernation.

 

I was able to complete the trackbed laying, using the new foam I had bought a roll of way back when...

 

 

Also in the last week, my shipment of turnouts arrived from Osborns (big shout out to them for great service and better than box-shifter pricing on Peco - check them out!).  Now my brain must have been in neutral, because I ordered four pairs of left and right turnouts.  In reality, I should have ordered eight of just one direction.  However, combined with the ones I already have at hand, I can make it work.

 

So here's the topic for discussion this weekend: Turnout ladders within a storage yard.  

 

 

The NMRA has a useful drawing:

 

I first thought of a nice neat set of crossovers as in the lower NRMA example:

 

 

But that has the limitation of not being able to extract a train, if the track adjacent is also being used.

 

A true ladder, rather than crossovers would, to me, seem operationally better:

 

 

Normally, this would come at the (high) price of shortening the storage capacity, and indeed it does, but as these yards are >6m long, all it does is make them asymmetrical - not a bad thing, as not all trains were the same length.

 

These tracks are pure storage.  They will be covered by scenery and not readily accessible, so not "fiddle yards" as such - complete trains, probably with locos attached (at least at the rear half of the yard) will be here. That sounds like a good argument to keep the number of turnouts to a minimum to me. The yard is also very "directional" - I would guess 95% of all traffic will come from right to left as oriented in those photos above.

 

I could even keep two of the roads as pure "through" roads - possibly the two furthest away from access - which operationally may be helpful to run locos around trains - remembering that each crossover has a significant cost attached to it; by the time two turnouts and two Cobalts are factored in (yes, I know I could MacGyver a pivot lever of sorts to allow one Cobalt to operate both turnouts, but the time/cost-benefit equation would be a tough one to justify); the question is, for close to £40 each, how many times will I need find I actually use each of the five crossovers?

 

Thoughts and experiences of others on a postcard to the usual address....

 

 

Scott

 

 

 

 

[jcredfer]

Hi Scott,

Nice to see track again  ...    

 

It looks like you have a sizeable room there too.

 

The first of the NMRA, second photograph, allows you to pass a Loco from one track to any of the others, without shuffling back and forth, or going all the way round the Points at the ends.  That seems like an advantage to me.  It does allow for parking/working different lengths of train too.   

 

On the less/more points; I would guess that, since you still have the points at both ends which allows trains to pass anything on the main lines, it rather comes down to how much you want to shunt stuff around in the storage and how many "trains" there will be to store [and therefore to manoeuvre others around them] ...  

[emt_911]

Morning Scott. Great to see the boards again and work progressing.

 

I've not seen the NMRA yard layout before and as you say, it will be interesting to hear about other experiences using it

[David Todd]

 

Very pleased to see you posting again, thanks for the pm's.

 

Also good to see you have revised,your original plan's.

 

Having read through,from page one, to present day, not a lot has be mentioned, of your operational control of the layout.

 

Are you going to stick with the "Powercab"  ?

[great northern]

Hi Scott,

 

 I would recommend keeping hidden points to an absolute minimum. I built in a 20 foot hidden section on my old layout, and couldn't resist putting in a couple of lay by loops. Which point, of the many on the layout, was the first to fail? Murphy rules OK. That section soon became plain track I can tell you. I admit to having a huge dislike of hidden track anyway, based on bad experience, so don't pay too much heed to me I suppose!

 

On PN, for the first time ever, instead of building a fiddle yard, then trying to fit trains into it, I did things the other way round. I worked out what trains I needed to store, and then designed a yard that allowed me to accomodate them. That has worked very well indeed.

[jukebox]

 

Very pleased to see you posting again, thanks for the pm's.

 

Also good to see you have revised,your original plan's.

 

Having read through,from page one, to present day, not a lot has be mentioned, of your operational control of the layout.

 

Are you going to stick with the "Powercab"  ?

 

Hi dt

 

Apologies for not replying - I didn't get back to my own thread until today!

 

No change in the plan for ops - the Powercab has been a breeze to use, and along with the Smartbooster and Richard's power supply, I have true walk around capability.  I have three socket mounts spread around the room, plus the one on the Smartbooster, so can unplug and walk to the next location while the train is in motion. 

 

I'll still break the bus into three sections - storage, mainline, and MPD - it just seems to be an obvious way to keep things going if I have a short in one place.  The system protector I use (forgot it's name but it's back in the thread somewhere) works like a charm - clicks off if I short something out, and automatically powers back up once the short is removed.

 

Any questions, feel free to throw them up here - I don't mind answering as part of the thread.

 

Edited April 19, 2015 by jukebox

[jukebox]

It didn't take a lot of convincing that Gilbert's "less is more" argument was correct.  And so I elected to simplify the yard ladder to just service the front four tracks.  The dodgy photoshop suggests it will look something like this:

 

 

I spent the weekend pre-assembling crossovers; wiring the turnouts up, and soldering the short straights between them, so I had semi-rigid crossover units.  The insulated rail joiners off the back of the crossing (frog) on opposite rails give just enough flexibility when I install these.  I prefer to prebuild them, as it means I can do all the wiring and soldering on my workbench, and it's just a matter of setting them up on my gridded self healing mat and making sure I build the crossover to the correct track centres.

 

 

Here they are, drying after a liberal sloshing with methylated spirits to remove any flux.

 

Meanwhile, at the South end of the yard, I've completed laying the trackbed, and added a wedge of ply so that I can run the previously unplanned headshunt off the innermost road.

 

 

That 18" long tail is just there to check alignments, and be sure I could get enough room for a loco or two there - for now, I've just added the Vee that that is needed to cater for the tail of the turnout.

 

I used a sandwich of two 3-ply sheets for my trackbed, so it's a simple matter of taking some off cuts, and extending the sandwich to take into account the extra track.  As a belt-and-braces exercise, I add another laminate of ply under the new join, to give it strength, and keep it rigid.

 

 

At the North end, having tested the Kadee magnets and found them to work as they say on the packet. I took to the remaining four yard roads, and cut away the roadbed.The magnets are slightly deeper than a single layer of ply, meaning I have to remove all the roadbed and fit a false bottom below that level.

 

 

Once I was down to the bottom layer, I used a drill to open out the corners, then a jigsaw to join the holes, and cut out the bottom layer of ply.

 

 

Then, an extra layer was glued in from underneath.  This leaves me with a cavity to drop the magnets into.  I just need to shim them up, so they are level with the bottom of the sleepers.  A job for next weekend.

Edited April 20, 2015 by jukebox

[jukebox]

So, with crossover assemblies pre-wired, my method is to set them out where they will required, and then I cut away the track-bed foam to provide clearance for the wiring.  Then I drill holes through so the droppers are whisked out of sight.

 

As this process gets underway. it can look like Stockrington has been visited by badgers;

 

 

And when it was all drilled out, here was the scene;

 

 

I then dropped the crossovers in place, and pulled the droppers down to anchor them loosely in place:

 

 

 

The next job will be attach the droppers to the under board bus. Then I'll need to mount some Cobalts so I can power the frogs, and see how it all comes together. 

 

At the South end, I laid the trackbed for the throat of the innermost road, and when that had dried started working on tracklaying on a face from the existing circuit.  I've got as far as the reverse turnout for the headshunt.  From here, the work is simpler, just laying full lengths of flex till I reach the middle of the yard.

 

 

Over the coming days and weeks I will extend these for roads down and across to the new crossovers.

 

:-)

 

Scott

[emt_911]

Scott. It looks like work is progressing well. I'm now looking forward to seeing a few locos running round

[jukebox]

Scott. It looks like work is progressing well. I'm now looking forward to seeing a few locos running round

 

Shhhhh!  

 

I *may* have had Falcon circulating with the CMX in tow yesterday at Miss Jukebox's (age: 8.)  request, after a lap with 60012 was interrupted by track dirty enough to break contact. 

 

Most of the stock is packed away now - I've just left a small cross section on hand to prove any trackwork I lay.

 

I do, however, have a Hornby P2 that is still in its box from Hattons after 6 months, that needs some steam trials sooner rather than later...

Edited April 27, 2015 by jukebox

[Steve O.]

Hi Scott,

A belated 'welcome back!'

My Co'TN hasn't turned a wheel yet either!

 

Must get moving...

Cheers, Steve

[David Todd]

It didn't take a lot of convincing that Gilbert's "less is more" argument was correct.  And so I elected to simplify the yard ladder to just service the front four tracks.  The dodgy photoshop suggests it will look something like this:

 

Ladder Final.jpg

 

I spent the weekend pre-assembling crossovers; wiring the turnouts up, and soldering the short straights between them, so I had semi-rigid crossover units.  The insulated rail joiners off the back of the crossing (frog) on opposite rails give just enough flexibility when I install these.  I prefer to prebuild them, as it means I can do all the wiring and soldering on my workbench, and it's just a matter of setting them up on my gridded self healing mat and making sure I build the crossover to the correct track centres.

 

Crossovers.jpg

 

Here they are, drying after a liberal sloshing with methylated spirits to remove any flux.

 

Meanwhile, at the South end of the yard, I've completed laying the trackbed, and added a wedge of ply so that I can run the previously unplanned headshunt off the innermost road.

 

South Yard.jpg

 

That 18" long tail is just there to check alignments, and be sure I could get enough room for a loco or two there - for now, I've just added the Vee that that is needed to cater for the tail of the turnout.

 

I used a sandwich of two 3-ply sheets for my trackbed, so it's a simple matter of taking some off cuts, and extending the sandwich to take into account the extra track.  As a belt-and-braces exercise, I add another laminate of ply under the new join, to give it strength, and keep it rigid.

 

Headshunt.jpg

 

At the North end, having tested the Kadee magnets and found them to work as they say on the packet. I took to the remaining four yard roads, and cut away the roadbed.The magnets are slightly deeper than a single layer of ply, meaning I have to remove all the roadbed and fit a false bottom below that level.

 

Before.jpg

 

Once I was down to the bottom layer, I used a drill to open out the corners, then a jigsaw to join the holes, and cut out the bottom layer of ply.

 

After.jpg

 

Then, an extra layer was glued in from underneath.  This leaves me with a cavity to drop the magnets into.  I just need to shim them up, so they are level with the bottom of the sleepers.  A job for next weekend.

 

 

As the week end begins for you,now, "over there", what magnet's are you using ?

 

That, has stopped me developing,Dover Town Yard, what to use.

 

Found these,the other day,  Rapido Railcrew. Scroll down to watch video.

[jukebox]

As the week end begins for you,now, "over there", what magnet's are you using ?

 

That, has stopped me developing,Dover Town Yard, what to use.

 

Found these,the other day,  Rapido Railcrew. Scroll down to watch video.

 

 

Hi dt

 

I use Kadee #308 below-the-track permanent magnets.

 

http://www.kadee.com/html/308ins.pdf

 

 

I'm sure there's a video a way back in this thread showing them in action; very happy with how they work and no issues from what I can see - by having them at the foot of the grade up to the scenic level, there's little chance the knuckles wont be in tension as they pass over unless deliberately and trying to uncouple something.

 

They sell for about a fiver in the UK - worth grabbing one to try, and see if it suits your needs.

 

The Rapido one is interesting... but with me needing 10 or more, that price would sting.

 

Cheers

 

Scott