JZ Posted August 24, 2013 Share Posted August 24, 2013 Gently easing the rails into gauge and using a little 90 second epoxy to fix. At the point in question, the stock rail is only held on the outside. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaz Posted August 25, 2013 Share Posted August 25, 2013 I was speaking to Kal about this, He says he suspects that the guage of the track at the bottom where it meets the sleepers is probably correct, but because Peco track holds the rail when you bend it one or both rails tend to lean out, so become out of guage at the top of the rail, this would be prevalent on a taller rail ie code 100 versus code 75, although not a reason for choosing 75 or 100 as other factors have to be taken into consideration such as the depth of the wheel hitting the chairs. On a real rail the rails would be cambered inwards and the wheels are cone shape which means the natural physical movement keeps the train central on the track, but even on the real thing which has much more engineering than is possible on a model they tend to super elevate tracks on sharper or faster corners, on model railways our tracks are almost always far sharper than the real thing, and our wheel track geometry cannot physically be as effective. He thinks that the gauge on corners unless you build your own track is almost always going to vary with temperature, use, and the weight of the locomotive,so track gauge alone is not the full answer, from a purely physics view he would say the two things that would help most would be to ensure transitions on curves and to super elevate, in simple terms if a corner is to be overall 40 inch radius start the corner as if it would bet 50 inch radius smoothly getting sharper towards 45 inch radius and then smoothly down to 40 inch radius so that the locomotive has already had it's momentum diverted before getting into the tighter curve. Raising the outer track by a mm more or less will also help be leaning the loco into the bend a little bit like a motorcycle and the centrifugal force will also help it, there are other small factors you can do like adding weight to the nose of the locomotive or increasing the tension of the spring on the front of steam locos. but this only tends to be when it's just one loco that is having the problem not all of them. The last things to look for that Kal can think of, at this moment in time, is to make sure that any track joins are completely smooth, check by rubbing your finger across it, that there is no sudden change in elevation on that corner, and lastly if you are using kadees that the hanging rod has enough clearance and is not catching at that particular point on the corner, if you have an iphone or a video camera or other type of camera phone try setting it to record where you get the derailment, he has used that successfully himself running trains at various speeds to see what happens at the point of derailment, and with the help of with a bit of cheap editing software you can actually watch frame by frame and that can help pinpoint the exact reason. Be sure that where the track is fixed at the exact point, that it is REALLY fixed once the train adds its cornering force to it because if there is movement that you cannot see with the naked eye that may also be enough to jerk the loco off the track at certain speeds, or that the wheel is not riding the chair at that point. He says he knows this is not the answer, only a lot more questions, but perhaps this might be of some help. And finally the best of luck. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jukebox Posted August 26, 2013 Author Share Posted August 26, 2013 Plenty of sound advice there, Jaz. The transitions and join comments are all very valid. And for anyone using Kadees, they need to be fussy about getting the heights correct: I always tweak my tails before I left stock look on the track - but did make the mistake of just dropping in the NEM Kadees into the Bachmann Pullmans - the socket is not at the correct height, and the coupler sits 3-4mm off height (low, I think it is). I found this out - and, simultaneously, that I had a rather dodgy vertical curve transition on my up ramp - as the train parted from the loco on one test run, and ran back down into the storage track.... I also support the idea of video and still reviews of work - you see sooooooooo much more when looking at something away from the action. So overall, yes, I think we're in agreeance - a lot of little things can compound, and you just have to sort through them to hopefully find a cause. *** Speaking of finding causes, I managed to freeze two TCS M1 decoders trying to fit a Bachmann J72 yesterday (I say freeze, as they didn't smoke, or pop). I thought my install was to blame, but I tried an MC2 after the first one went u/s, and all was fine - wired up another M1 - same result: Powercab cannot read CV values off decoder... I'm pretty careful with these things; always check for shorts using a continuity tester before energising, and all that - I know it's a split chassis, but this one was not overly hard to engineer - a little Liquid Electrical Tape and bring the motor leads out from inside the chassis block halves - and I have been able to retro-wire it to work DC, so it's fundamentally sound... I shall send them back to the States and wait to see what the manufacturer says. Need to find another 0-6-0 to use as my test subject now. S Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jukebox Posted August 31, 2013 Author Share Posted August 31, 2013 Well, the plate layers were out yesterday, and after lifting the outside leg of the turnout approach near the D/S, appear to have solved another of the per-way hot spots. The K3 now can reverse here without issue. It feels good to see these restrictions falling down one by one. No further derailments on the double slip - although the Bachmann Deltic is still having a few issues. The problem is the guard irons - the way they are modelled they sit so darn close to the top of the rail, that on changes in rail profile, or vertical curves, they are rubbing/catching on the rail head. I don't want to just lop the bottom of these off, as the DP1 I have is from the initial batch of NRM "as preserved" issue, and ideally, I'd like to swap it out for one of the recent "in service" releases when funds permit, so I dont want to do anything to damage it. *** I opened a bundle of stored tank locos, and as previously reported, managed to freeze the decoder on the J72. When I looked at the J52, it turned out the bottom keeper plate had perished and cracked in two spots, so I have that under repair with some careful splicing of stitch plates of plasticard. The third tank was an LT Pannier. I spent most of today carving and drilling away it's keeper plate, to fit a Kadee to the rear of this one, and eventually got it sorted. Miss 6 joined me for a short session where I let the Panner loose with a single coach, lazily orbiting the room... it was rather relaxing, once I was confident it was behaving (test runs at Stockrington are fraught - 75% of the circuit is on ramps that sit over 750mm off the floor; a derailment at speed would have dire consequences. I will fit fall barriers once I have the kinks ironed out - till then, it's "helicopter parenting" modellling!) *** Found, wired up, and fitted my third NCE panel - it makes a big difference, as this one is right by the double slip, and lets me concentrate on the action there, instead of being tethered across the well. *** The other thing I did today was photograph Can Pac ready for sale. Even Mrs Jukebox questioned why I am letting it go, which made me feel bad! I think the Boxpok drivers remind me of NSWGR C38's that I saw as a child near Newcastle (Lake Macquarie, not on-Tyne)... Not unlike the 3801, Can-Pac is a beautiful, powerful looking machine, but it's just not right for Stockrington. Cheers Scott 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted August 31, 2013 Share Posted August 31, 2013 Hi Scott the layout is progressing and the MN looks stunning in Blue, I have looked at Duchess and A4's in blue and I may get a couple later, I am sure you will have loads of people after it, have you tries Rob in NZ? Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaz Posted August 31, 2013 Share Posted August 31, 2013 I have to agree with Mrs Jukebox, a beautiful piece of machinery, go heritage young man ............... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jukebox Posted September 1, 2013 Author Share Posted September 1, 2013 Hi Scott the layout is progressing and the MN looks stunning in Blue, I have looked at Duchess and A4's in blue and I may get a couple later, I am sure you will have loads of people after it, have you tries Rob in NZ? Andy There's no doubt she is a thing of beauty, Andy - and perversely, the Hornby blue is a nice match for the Bachmann blue, which can't always be claimed for other shades of the competing manufacturers liveries... as you can see in this shot from last year at Northmoor works: I have to agree with Mrs Jukebox, a beautiful piece of machinery, go heritage young man ............... ...ah, the temptation to go down that rabbit hole is indeed strong! But so is the desire to build up a BR Green stud of Gresley's finest for a bi-polar (40's/60's) layout! I've been very disciplined in the last year or so - avoiding the temptation of a GWR City, building up a believable roster of early D/E locos to haul ECS workings... so paring away the incongruities needs to start sooner or later, Jaz. It's bad enough that I'm not planning on parting with my Bachmann 92220 ~ the Hornby Evening Star that it replaced can always be sprayed black, weathered to within an inch of its life, and renumbered as a serious freight loco... Cheers Scott 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
freebs Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 I've just skim read this thread from start to finish - an excellent project. I shall enjoy watching its progress Lee Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
silky_jack Posted September 6, 2013 Share Posted September 6, 2013 Gotta love those locos. Wow. JEALOUS! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaz Posted September 6, 2013 Share Posted September 6, 2013 How could you sell her that is a beautiful photograph............ She'll miss her mates. Looks like three teenage lasses (all desperate to wear similar garb) off to the disco. Just needs handbags and high heels. LOL. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jukebox Posted September 7, 2013 Author Share Posted September 7, 2013 (edited) I've just skim read this thread from start to finish - an excellent project. I shall enjoy watching its progress Lee Thanks Lee - welcome aboard. It's one large learning exercise for me, but I'm happy to be able to document it here for people to see. Gotta love those locos. Wow. JEALOUS! Love 'em, yes - but jealous? Nah. They (the A4's) are just out of the box Bachmann split frames - both well over a decade old. The CoA was a name and number change I documented over at MRF. With a bit of extra lead under the casing, they both are good for 6-7 coaches on a mainline like mine with grades. The Bulleid looks the part, but has a bit of the Hornby see-saw happening; the centre drivers are fractionally low, so in motion, with a load behind the tender, it's functioning as a 2-2-4-2, which means it baulks at anything more than four coaches on my grades (having said that, it was dragging 11 along the flat yard line today, so for a less demaning layout will be fine). It's got a nice mechanism, too - very smooth... How could you sell her that is a beautiful photograph............ She'll miss her mates. Looks like three teenage lasses (all desperate to wear similar garb) off to the disco. Just needs handbags and high heels. LOL. On Friday one of my seamail book parcels arrived from the UK, Jaz - complete with photos of 35026 being swarmed by spotters at York in 1966. The caption explains that until that date, the only other time a Bulleid had been seen that far North was during the loco exchanges... so I just have no excuse. Not sure SNG ever went to a disco! Was their an A4 named Emily Howard perchance? *** Spent the morning rewheeling and deweighting some more Thompsons - I now have four that have Bachmann wheelsets, that drag a hell of a lot (perversely, the Hornby wheels are a nicer fit into the Bachmann coach bogies). I always apply a spot of fisherman's reel lube to each pinpoint bush on the bogies before I fit them, but even that hasn't helped, so I shall need to order some more Hornby wheels I then did a short session upstairs to try and iron out the dodgy "top" on the track near the D/S, but only succeeded in making it worse. I'll go back tomorrow and start again, and see if I can do a better job. Tonight I need to go and get drunk, to numb myself for the next four years. Cheers *hic* Scott Edited September 8, 2013 by jukebox 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaz Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 (edited) why next four years? Hmmmm. Have you a child who has hit University and you have to foot the bill? Or just sobered up from the last drinks binge???? Or you just found out how long it is going to take for you to pay the wife's handbag bill????? FYI Handbags can go for staggering sims...which of course makes our shoes bill look quite minimalistic. Or is your birthday so close to ...ummm???....80!!! you can't cope any more...............LOL.....and runs like hxll.................laughing like a bansheeeeee............................... Edited September 7, 2013 by Jaz Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jukebox Posted September 8, 2013 Author Share Posted September 8, 2013 (edited) why next four years? Hmmmm. Have you a child who has hit University and you have to foot the bill? Or just sobered up from the last drinks binge???? Or you just found out how long it is going to take for you to pay the wife's handbag bill????? FYI Handbags can go for staggering sims...which of course makes our shoes bill look quite minimalistic. Or is your birthday so close to ...ummm???....80!!! you can't cope any more...............LOL.....and runs like hxll.................laughing like a bansheeeeee............................... Let's just say "You can never underestimate the stupidity of the of the general public" Scott Adams, (American Cartoonist, b.1957) and draw a line under those things we cannot change. It's a model railway thread, after all. Edited September 8, 2013 by jukebox Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Todd Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 . Looks like three teenage lasses (all desperate to wear similar garb) off to the disco. Just needs handbags and high heels. LOL. Platform shoes............. Now caught up after a time of being Awol..............pleased to see the minor resrictions,being resolved........................ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jukebox Posted September 8, 2013 Author Share Posted September 8, 2013 (edited) Platform shoes............. Now caught up after a time of being Awol..............pleased to see the minor resrictions,being resolved........................ Thanks d.t. - I am slowly working my way through the issues - and being rewarded by less and less derailments or glitches, or at least a better understanding of what is happening. *** I knuckled down and did a session to (hopefully) rectify the dodgy track coming off the bridge; some unsolder and resoldering of fixed joints, and some packing of approches with card shim to provide some transition into the areas where I have cant. It's not pretty to the eye in places, but the fact I can get trains over the D/S at an increasing speed tells me I've improved the situation. So much so, I had the luxury of some train spotting today! After a long gestation, there is something uniquely satisfying watching a train circuit the room, and not need to worry about it faltering, or worse, plummeting to its doom. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwyITAnng3E That second-to-last coach seems to have had a heavy shunt! (in reality, the body's not clipped down properly from my deweighting and rewheeling session) This sort of thing only stokes the fire in me to get on, so I can start terra-forming. Cheers Scott Edited September 8, 2013 by jukebox 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaz Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 (edited) oh doh....... politics Back on topic, even I am finally enjoying the sight of a train actually running (never really bothered me except the sound was nice, but when you have been redoing your track, pulling up track , track bed, points etc then relaying track bed track and points and measuring the fall etc... so it does work, you are just so bxxxxxy relieved to see the train actually running...... Edited September 8, 2013 by Jaz Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kal Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 Hi Nice sound effects mate, really like the video. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jukebox Posted September 8, 2013 Author Share Posted September 8, 2013 Hi Nice sound effects mate, really like the video. Thanks Kal; if I had been home on my own, I might not have bothered dubbing something in, but Sunday afternoon here had one child on piano practice, and the other two "helping" their mother cook in the kitchen, and I'd left the railway room door open, so the combined sounds of all that magic were all over the quiet parts of the video. I did a quick search for "Deltic + soundfiles" and it wasn't hard to find a couple that had sort of feel I wanted, and it was literally 30 seconds to drop and drag them over the original sound track. I did give a passing thought to a new clip for each scene, but pragmatism won the day at 6pm on a Sunday night! Cheers Scott Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Todd Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 I did give a passing thought to a new clip for each scene, but pragmatism won the day at 6pm on a Sunday night! Those in the pragmatist camp will tell you that politics is about the art of compromise.........you chose the right hobby.......... then......... , Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jukebox Posted September 8, 2013 Author Share Posted September 8, 2013 Those in the pragmatist camp will tell you that politics is about the art of compromise.........you chose the right hobby.......... then......... , Fortunately, d.t., the politics was all over by 6pm Saturday night! (however, the diplomacy about spending valuable hours hunkered away in the railway room is an ongoing negotiation... ) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 Fortunately, d.t., the politics was all over by 6pm Saturday night! (however, the diplomacy about spending valuable hours hunkered away in the railway room is an ongoing negotiation... ) Scott, you mean to tell us that you get a chance to negotiate :no: :no: Bodgit Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Todd Posted September 11, 2013 Share Posted September 11, 2013 Seen these, thought, I wonder...........but just the wrong river............... 3rd, Row down............ http://www.simplysouthern.co.uk/trucks.html Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Todd Posted September 11, 2013 Share Posted September 11, 2013 http://www.durhamrecordoffice.org.uk/Pages/AdvancedSearchDurhamCollieriesDetail.aspx?SearchType=AtoZ&SearchOn=Town&SearchStart=G&ItemID=1448&layer=1&sheet=3SW Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jukebox Posted September 15, 2013 Author Share Posted September 15, 2013 Plenty of activity this week at Stockrington. I ran the CMX behind Falcon for a few laps and was doing a propelling run, only to discover that the join I thought I'd reset satisfactorily last week was throwing D0280 off when traversing the bridge - a rather precarious place to do so. So Friday was back out with the soldering iron, and straight edges, for another crack. The errant rail was the one on the bridge side of the opening gap, and it's in an ugly place to check the rule and see what is wrong. But I perserved, and all seems well now. A little later I set up a quick video of Kestrel demonstrating a Kadee shunt - it's posted over on Kirkby Lunside, but I'll put it here for compelteness, too. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fk2U2O6Q6qk *** Inspired by the mega-train goings on over at Grantham, and knowing that until now I'd been using bogie passenger stock, I decided to break out the 4 wheel wagons for a play. Now I have promised myself that all these shall be re-wheeled with steel wheels, and the tension locks removed, but expediency was the order of the day, and after digging through the stoarge tubs, I was able to rustle up 50 various wagons, plus the Bachmann 9F to haul them. Curiously, it turns out my storage sidings will just comfortably hold 50 wagons. And the 9F out of the box can move them on the flat. But not up the 3%. I split the train in two, and both the 9F and the K3 were able to manage a half rake of 25. Curiosity got the better of me, and I swapped out the steamers for Falcon. That meant adding the converter BG (Tension lock/Kadee) to the rake. But even that was not about to trouble Falcon: it easily lifted the whole 100+ axle train up the 3% ramp (much to my children's amusement). However the tension on the couplings was quite spectacular as the loco crested the rise - and then the strange dynamics of a long train came into play. While the brake van was still climbing the 3% out of the yard, the loco was in the -5% chute, and at 90 degrees to the rear of the train. However at some point, the inertia shifts - and if the train is going too slow, the whole weight of the train goes from tension, into compression: this loads up the bars on the tension lock couplings on the front wagons to such a degree that they want to ride up over one another (if the train keeps a reasonable speed, it keeps the majority of the weight off the couplings). Needless to say I learnt all the the hard way when I slowed the train too quickly on the -5% and (this time to my kids horror!) the front wagons slewed sideways, and momentum forced the train onward, down into the maelstrom, and wagons started to drop to the floor. Quick thinking by yours truly, I grabbed the tail of the train, and brought it to a halt after just 10 wagons had dived. No harm done, but a valuable lesson about loose couple trains and steep downward gradients. The silver lining was that once I was back to 25 wagon trains, I was able to run them around with no derailments (plastic ungauged pizza cutter wheels and all), which was a nice confirmation I'm close to having the track certified as "good to go". I have begun to glue down those areas on the ramp and chute that I am happy with, and remove the temprary screw fastenings that I'd used to hold everything in place. I added some shims to the curves on the fans tracks at the bottom of the chute, to apply some superelevation to those as they come off the chute and onto the flat, which can't hurt, if you'll pardon the pun! *** We have a four day weekend at the end of the month - I've slated that as my "engineering posession" to reconstruct the top curve of the chute. Whilst the last four weeks has shown that "normal" coaches and wagons have no issues with the geometry there, I know the Pullmans were not, and I have a bit of space to ease that curve out, so it can only help. So the plan is: Re-lay the top of the chute this month; add the extra four storage tracks along the long wall between October and November. Play... er, test trains in December... and then assuming all is well, hook into building the mainline trackbed early in the New Year. Cheers Scott 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted September 15, 2013 Share Posted September 15, 2013 Hi Scott, Great Video of Kadee's in action, I saw it on KL yesterday, brilliant. :locomotive: :locomotive: How about some pics of the 9F with this 50 wagoner ? OR EVEN A VIDEO :nono: :nono: ? Bodgit Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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