Havenhouse - the reboot

[will5210]

Hi Will

 

Sounds like a plan, as long as the glue isn't too sticky! As far as I can see the mat is mostly to keep the small pieces together that have been cut out so they don't get in the way, or lost.

 

I'd like to say that I've just been on your thread, you do some great work! Are you thinking about using the cutter for buildings or to help with the fleet of locos that you are building? Oh, and I wish I'd remembered the word bodging, I'd have used it in my previous post!

 

Hi, thanks for your kind words re my bodging!

 

To be honest I'll use the cutter for as much as possible! I'm much quicker drawing in CorelDraw than with a pen & paper. I just need to experiment & see what's possible with my machinery, though I've started drawing up an LNER group standard tender as a test.

 

Great work on the coach too!

 

Cheers

Edited November 13, 2013 by will5210

[JCL]

I think you undersell yourself!

 

I used to use the original version of Corel Draw a looking time ago. The software that comes with the cutter isn't too bad - a bit clunky at times. The only major downer us that you can only export to a different file format through some major bodging to create a kludge, that is a PDF file. I have tried the free Inkscape a few times in the past, and while it's promising, their development is glacial, and there are some major stability problems - I get somewhat annoyed if the work I've done disappears in a split second! On this, I downloaded FreeCad the other day. I haven't had a chance to try it, but they seem very confident. It exports into a file format that can be imported into the cutter software which would be cool if it works!

 

Sorry everyone, I've gone from modelling to computer software...

 

What plotter/cutter do you have?

[will5210]

We have a roland versa-camm, which is actually a printer but cuts as well. I can cut pretty thick vinyl on it (around 40 thou as guess) so it should be ok on a slow setting.

 

I just need to get a fresh sheet of .10 thou plasticard & have a go!

[Theakerr]

The Coquihalla Highway is fairly spectacular in its own right although having also seen the program you refer to I suspect it has the potential to be "interesting" at this time of the year, not to mention the roads to it from Fernie.  Highway 3 is fantastic, but slow.  Also suspect you could get some weather on it and I suspect it is not as well maintained as the Coquihalla

[uax6]

Jason,

 

Look in the archive DVDs that i sent you, and you will find quite a few M&GN carriage drawings, along with other LNER ones..... ;-} (I'm in the middle of naming the next 1500 files for the next installment BTW)

 

I'm interested to see how it handles the pasticard sides, as with the amount of carriages I need to have made it <might> be worth saving up for one (unless you want to earn a bit on the side, and I get a mortgage for the postage! ;-} )

 

What are your intensions with the chassis, is it just going to get footboards?

 

Andy G

[JCL]

Hi Andy, funnily enough...

 

I'll definitely do a step by step on this one. I can't promise that it'll look pretty, but at least we'll know if it's possible. Personally I think it is. With some styrene strip and [ sections for the solebars, there's no reason why a chassis could be fabricated as well. The best thing is that once you have the cutting plan for the first one, you can knock out any number of them. As it's a carriage and not a loco, I wonder if the whole thing could be done if you get brass bearings for the wheels? On this one I'll use the Hornby chassis, and as you say adorn it with footboards etc if possible. If this goes ok, next one I want to do is a four wheel one and do the chassis as well.

Edited November 14, 2013 by JCL

[uax6]

Jason,

 

I would have thought that you would have to buy (or cast) the axleboxes, but the w-irons should be do-able in sheet, and then add top-hat bearings into them that will both hold the axle and help locate the cast axlebox (after the rear has been drilled to fit over the bearing).

 

For the centre axle of a 6 wheeller you can use the same w-iron set up with a standard axle, but with the wheels having their insulation removed and replaced with a tube that holds them the correct back to back. The tube then slides around on the axle, giving you enough movement to get around corners... It works quite well too!

 

EDIT: You can also elongate the holes in the w-iron top and bottom slightly to allow the bearing to be a slopply fit up and down only, this will give a bit of compensation on the middle axle.

 

Oh don't forget a lot of these carriages had timber solebars, so that will be flat plasticard!

 

The Hornby underframe will take a fair bit of hiding, but if you put both footboards on each side it might just do it! (The original M&GN carriages had quite a short wheelbase with loooong overhangs at each ends, which must have lead to lots of 'kick out' on corners!)

 

Look forward to the results!

 

Andy g

Edited November 14, 2013 by uax6

[JCL]

Thanks Andy. I'll have another look at the plans! I was all over the internet yesterday looking for Carriage Modelling Made Easy, but it looks like nobody has a copy at a reasonable price. On the up side, I've a couple of different articles, so I'll make use of those, and of course the help on here

 

You know what, I'm moving towards doing the chassis as well. Well if I'm going to spend time on this I may as well do it right. Sooo, in that case, I'll park this and see if I can find a 4 wheel coach plan first as that will be an easier one to begin with.

 

 

Edited to say yep, I've noticed the rubbish below uax6's next post. Hopefully it'll be gone soon.

Edited November 14, 2013 by JCL

[uax6]

It's a good book, I have a well thumbed copy on the shelf, but the next issue of the archive also has quite a lot of the book in it, as it was run in the RM back in the 70's. I can email you them if you want them before i can finish the batch (which will take weeks yet!)

 

Andy G

[JCL]

Hi Adrian, I 'fessed up on the clumsy modeller thread, there's more than I let on here. You may need a cuppa before you read if

[uax6]

How about the GER 4wheeled brake? They must have floated around the system a fair way? Would you be able to use the ratio GWR underframe, I have some in the bits box if you need some....

 

Andy G

[JCL]

Some people have said that they quite like my asides about life over here. Well, with that in mind, I couldn't go to Lethbridge without taking some photos  for you, and here they are.

 

The Rockies are behind me as I drive over the prairies. (Click for a bigger view on all the panoramas)

 

The Lethbridge Viaduct or High Level Bridge is the largest railway structure in Canada and the largest of its type in the world. It feels like it when you see it in person. At the bottom of the photo are street lights!

 

Huge wheels on the southern edge of Lethbridge

 

Stuffed and mounted, we do railway taxidermy in a big way

 

A CPR loco at a shopping centre next to the station in Lethbridge. Unfortunately it's in a corner out the way end impossible to photograph well.

 

A mine loco on the edge of Fernie

 

What's left of a loco at the kids playground on the edge of Fernie city centre.

 

If anyone is thinking about modelling a mine in Canada let me know, I can photograph these things until they squeak!

Edited November 15, 2013 by JCL

[Jason T]

Not sure if I have asked before but are you a mountain biker, as there is supposed to be some fantastic riding around Fernie. Funnily enough, I have a mate, known as JCL on mountain biking forums, who left Guildford to live in Canada a few years back, mainly so he could ride in Vancouver's North Shore. He is a bit handy on a bike.

[JCL]

Hi Jason

 

Thanks for asking, yep, the biking is pretty wild around here, and we have some amazing bikers. You definitely have to ask them how good they are before you go out with them. Most of the trails are in the trees, which suits me I'm a bit odd because I like the rooty trails (like Roots funnily enough). Luckily there are a whole load of them I can get to from my front door, you just have to remember not to ride quietly - we have our fair share of black and grizzly bears in the area. If you let them know you're coming they tend to keep out the way though.

 

A couple of friends of mine do the races each year (Trans Rockies, Tears n Gears, and a couple of others) the biggest one, the Trans Rockies, tends to stay in town for a few days. I think that, for the first time ever it's not going to be in Fernie, but they are doing the Fernie Ultra and Enduro races instead. One of the things I get involved in is photographing the dirt jump jam (Wam Bam) every year. This is the annual jump competition - we have a huge dirt jump area behind the swimming pool. I'll see if I can dig out some photos.

 

I'm not a fantastic by any means, but I can get around on the intermediate trails, and I love it - possibly more than skiing, but that'd be controversial...

[Jason T]

Very jealous

 

I shouldn't complain really as I have the moors on my doorstep and the Lakes fells just over an hour away.

[t-b-g]

Interesting. Even with standardisation, there were differences. The latticework on your upper photo has a curved top edge, while the one at the bottom flattens out. Of course, one of the saving graces about the Wainfleet one is that there are no curves to worry about. Like the rest of the station buildings, except for the signal box, and station building chimneys, there wasn't a lot of ornamentation going on.

 

That footbridge is looking very nice indeed.

 

Just to clarify a little point. Edwinstowe wasn't on the GNR, it was on the LD&ECR, later the GCR. That maybe explains the slight differences between the two photos.

 

Having done the odd bridge or two from either plastic strips or cut in one piece from a sheet, if I had a plotter/cutter I would have used it too! It certainly isn't cheating, it is just a case of using the best tool that you have available for the job.

 

It does make me think of a previous thread about whether it is scratchbuilding or whether you have designed a kit but to my mind, it really doesn't matter what the process is called, you have just made a really nice bridge! 

 

Best wishes,

 

Tony

[jrg1]

That footbridge is looking very nice indeed.

 

Just to clarify a little point. Edwinstowe wasn't on the GNR, it was on the LD&ECR, later the GCR. That maybe explains the slight differences between the two photos.

 

Having done the odd bridge or two from either plastic strips or cut in one piece from a sheet, if I had a plotter/cutter I would have used it too! It certainly isn't cheating, it is just a case of using the best tool that you have available for the job.

 

It does make me think of a previous thread about whether it is scratchbuilding or whether you have designed a kit but to my mind, it really doesn't matter what the process is called, you have just made a really nice bridge! 

 

Best wishes,

 

Tony

It is simply modelling using the best means available-you still have to set it all up for the right result.  We are lucky that the hobby can embrace technological advance to give improved results, whilst reducing the input in effort and time.  Advances such as 3D modelling mean quicker results, more diversity, more accuracy-and more interest in the hobby.

[JCL]

Thanks Tony! Thanks very much, I'm hoping my thread doesn't get too boring with regards the cutter, as this isn't an IT website! It has been extremely useful, and even with the amount of time I've been sat in front of the keyboard, it's still faster than I could have done by hand. I think it also saves me a bit of money because I'm not having to do things over as often. Physical modelling to come.

 

In that vein, I've decided that I really should finish off the M&GN full brake, so this is where I'm at. I've redone the cutting sheets and split them out with different cut settings:

 

All the parts I need on .020"

 

All the parts I need on .010". The frame on the coach end is like a sprue that will enable me to lift the end off the sheet and glue it down without too much (or hopefully any) distortion of the thin vertical strips.

 

All the score lines on the .010" sheet. These will be barely visible and will be there for me to be able to score a V in there to take the beading.

 

If you did put them together, you should get something like this:

 

It's all cutting out now. I'll post again when I have the pieces on the mat. Hopefully I've left enough thicknesses on the panels to cut them properly.

Edited November 15, 2013 by JCL

[JCL]

Very jealous

 

I shouldn't complain really as I have the moors on my doorstep and the Lakes fells just over an hour away.

 

I used to drive from London to Keswick on a Friday night about once a month when I lived in England. While I love it here, there's been quite a few times that I've wished that I could just go out onto the Cumbrian hills, or bike from Hebden Bridge over to Ovenden over the tops for the weekend.

[JCL]

So the parts have been cut out. First of all the score lines were made, then I opened the cut file and the pieces were cut. The first photo is what it looks like on the sheet.

 

 

And this photo shows what it looks like after I've pressed everything out. They are slightly warped in places, but most of that is from when I peeled the pieces off the mat. The bits that look like Roman amphora are the duckets. They were scored down the middle so that the can be easily folded and glued together to represent .020" duckets sides. I'm really pleased with how the ends came out. The frame around the more fragile end was great. This is something I'd repeat on the other end if I need to do it again.

 

 

This evening I'll be reading up about forming tumblehomes. I know how to do it in principle, but I've never seen it done. My current thought is to either put a padding piece behind the bottom half of the side and carefully sand it down or to try to bend it over with the handle of a wooden spoon (I think). Doing it the second way will keep the scoring.

 

 

Sorry about the size of the photos. I'm trying to do this on my tablet.

Edited November 16, 2013 by JCL

[uax6]

Thats a very impressive kit of parts there! I've been giving the tumblehome issue some thought too. As the max turn in is less than 1mm I wonder if (with a bit of ruler work) you removed a suitable amount off the bottom of the rear layer and added a backing at the bottom that sheet, would you be able to bend the next layer in and cement it to the bottom backing? (does that even make sense?).

 

This extra bottom backing might also be able to serve as a way of holding the glazing in too (add a small lip to its top edge and the glazing can then drop down into it. Not quite sure how you would hold the top edge though....

 

The panels seem to have come out really well, and i guess the distortion can be sorted when everything gets cemented together..

 

Andy G

[JCL]

I had to think about that a couple of times, but only because I wasn't reading it correctly. That would make sense because then the scoring on the .010" sheet would be safe. Well it wouldn't take much to give it a go I will put a backing strip on behind the back .020" layer so that the floor has something to hold on to. Hang on, I'll do a diagram.

 

Here we go.

 

So the green is the .020" sheet. There would be one sheet with the windows in, and a 1/2 sheet that would finish slightly higher so that it produces a lip that will seat the floor. The outer green layer would be sanded back to profile, and the red layer with its detailing (panellig and scored lines) would wrap around. It would certainly make things solid I just have to be very careful with the sanding. I might pop into town tomorrow and pick up some emery boards. Oooor, put a handle on a piece of board that would then have double sided tape that would keep the sandpaper steady.

 

I'm also thinking of putting a plastic disk within the rims of the wheels (I'm using replacement wheels in the form of Hornby coach wheels) to make them look like the diagram I have.

 

Do you think this would work?

[uax6]

Yes I think it would, but what i was thinking was to terminate the inner green layer before the curve, the outer green layer running right down to the bottom and the red layers bottom edge being glued to the inner green one. This would avoid the sanding completely I think.

 

I like the idea of wheel inserts (I could do with quite a few!).

 

Your method will work, but getting a consistant curve could be difficult.

 

Andy g

[JCL]

Oh, I see, this?

 

 

There would be an air pocket and the red sheet would effectively glued to the floor at its lower edge. That certainly looks easier!

Edited November 16, 2013 by JCL

[JCL]

The ends are glued. I just used the bulldog to keep one end together while I was gluing the other end.