Wright writes.....

[Andy R]

Hello Andy,

 

That will be tonight! I have one or two little jobs to do first as a couple of home made switches at Buckingham are sulking!

 

Cheers,

 

Tony

 

Tony- the famous layout will keep you on your toes for ever I am thinking. Part of the fun I think you would say...

 

I will PM photo taken of the two Tonys operating the layout the day I came through. Hopefully you are maintaining enough skilled operators.

 

regards, Andy R

[robertcwp]

It's probably true that throughout all railway modelling history, new technologies have appeared and been perceived to make the methods/products preceding them redundant, rather than being complementary. May I cite an example, please? 

 

It's probably well-known that I have a liking for Jamieson kits. They are really (to me) the second stage in scratch-building, where all the major parts have been cut-out and formed for you. There are, though, no tabs or slots for accurate registration and fitting of the parts and no surface detail. Though, as mentioned, the major parts are pre-formed, some further forming is usually necessary. For no other reason than recently finding a dusty Jamieson box on an even more dusty shelf, I've started making the Lord Nelson inside. I have (obviously) no need of it, but a friend models the Southern and I'm sure he could be tempted. A few years ago, I built a Craftsman LN and that etched brass kit immediately made the Jamieson one redundant. In comparison it was so much easier to build, though things like beading still had to be fixed on. Bachmann then brought out an RTR one (is it any good?). The thing is, though, I enjoy building locomotives in the 'traditional' way. They have a 'presence' to me that no plastic/RTR/3D-printed equivalent can possess, especially sheet-metal locos. I admit, it's a personal point of view, but to take up Tony Gee's point, locos made in this way can become even more 'special' as they become rarer and rarer. 

The Bachmann LN is one of their early models and is not up to current day standards.

[Tony Wright]

 

Just to state that the Isinglass milk/general-purpose van is all but complete; built by 'traditional' means. Compared with the same firm's 3D-printed carriage (which I've given away, by the way), this is in a totally different league. There should be some vertical rods for opening the doors (or appear to be in pictures), so I'll have to make those from scrap etch. The notes state that only one of these vans had electric lights inside, so I've left the dynamo and battery box off this one. 

 

Apart from the plastic rain strips, everything is soldered-construction on this. The camera has cruelly highlighted by 'blobby' soldering, so there's still some cleaning up to do. The notes with the kit give glue as an alternative method of joining the bits. If I may be so bold, what utter nonsense! This model can be picked up by its brake gear!

 

I very rarely build wagons/vans of any type; this was done for part of a chapter in my forthcoming book. Obviously, the constructional techniques are traditional and I'd be surprised if any alternative 'newer' technology could produce as 'crisp' a model in comparison, but I don't know. The reference to glue as a means of construction is because too many modellers still avoid soldering in my view. If anyone would like to learn about soldering as a medium for building locos/rolling stock, then, please, come along to the Peterborough Show next month where I'll be demonstrating my methods. The hope is that 'pupils' can purchase/bring along an etched wagon/carriage kit, loco chassis, loco kit (including white metal) and I'll run a tutorial 'in the round' so to speak. In a perfect world, any skills learned will then be taken away to complete the model. Here's hoping, anyway.  

[Focalplane]

Apart from the plastic rain strips, everything is soldered-construction on this. The camera has cruelly highlighted by 'blobby' soldering, so there's still some cleaning up to do. The notes with the kit give glue as an alternative method of joining the bits. If I may be so bold, what utter nonsense! This model can be picked up by its brake gear!

 

Tony, what an inspiration to any would be solderer reading your post!  I have recently been struggling with CA glue on a JLTRT Mark 1 coach kit and it is a whole new world for me.  You mention being able to pick up the van by the brake gear - this is what I like most about soldering brass and nickel silver - the result should be a very solid, robust structure.  If it isn't one of two things needs to be addressed - either the kit is designed badly or the solderer needs to improve his/her technique.

 

My latest locomotive kit (7mm 14XX 0-4-2T) is coming along nicely and this morning I completed soldering the backhead:

 

 

The photo includes 13 lost wax brass castings, three copper "pipes" and five nickel silver "tubes".  Additional components have also been soldered directly to the cab interior.  What is very satisfying about this construction is how solid it feels in the hand.  It is not an exact replica of the real thing (in fact photos suggest that no two cabs seem to have had the same layout).  My prototype (1459) never had a top feed which does simplify things a bit.  But it should look the part once painted and inserted through the cab floor into the cab.

 

I should add that I could never have done this in 4mm scale.  The valve handles on the manifold were small enough in 7mm scale.  I have been following the long and very protracted thread about the D J Models/Hattons new 00 gauge 14XX model.  The 3D design looks excellent but the way this translates into the plastic moulding is, too me, very disappointing.  This post does, I think, prove my point.

[LNER4479]

A non-rolling stock application of soldering:

 

This work-in-progress signal is a combination of etched brass and whitemetal parts, all from the MSE range. A comment has made on my thread that such a result would be difficult from other media - certainly, for robustness and working reliably, I'm struggling to think of an alternative. I started out making signals from Ratio plastic kits but have never looked back since switching to soldering metal bits together. Compared to a full loco kit, I think this is quite straightforward stuff?

 

The plan is for it to be operational at Warley in just over 8 weeks' time...

[Dr Gerbil-Fritters]

Crikey, let's hope nothing ever goes through the trap and demolishes it!

[drmditch]

I'm still learning to solder properly, and here is my 'learning piece'.

I've got some brass kits to construct, but I thought it might be less expensive to scratchbuild this NER A2 Machinery wagon, (LNER MAC-L)

 

 

I did learn a lot - most significantly to plan structures and assembly sequences carefully. It's not as easy to add bits on as it is in plastic!

 

I like the result anyway, even though the clunky couplings show up really badly on this type of vehicle!

 

Edited September 29, 2016 by drmditch

[Rail-Online]

Isinglass milk van 16.jpg

 

Sorry Tony, you will just have to replace those etched springs and dampers - they really let down a lovely vehicle as they lack the 'mass' and 'depth' of the original.

 

Tony

[glo41f]

I wonder what it is that makes modellers averse to soldering. Interestingly I was in a discussion yesterday concerning a proposed 7mm display and one contributor was against my suggestion of soldering the track work as opposed to using commercial track as " hand made track is a turn off for some!". I have been in the hobby for many years and soldering was the norm in the early days. In fact I can recall the amazement when the first "superglue " made its appearance. However, as has been posted here, there really is no alternative to using solder to get a good strong result. The old stagers in my first club taught me the skill and I in turn have passed this on initially to my sons (none of whom are modellers sadly). So persevere and get the skill under your belt. One thing though that I have not mastered is the ability to keep the work clean whilst soldering so any guidance in that direction would be welcome!

 

Martin Long

[micknich2003]

4479, a very nice looking piece of work. I long gave up on white metal posts and dolls, I find filed brass bar to be far easier.

[Headstock]

Isinglass milk van 16.jpg

 

Just to state that the Isinglass milk/general-purpose van is all but complete; built by 'traditional' means. Compared with the same firm's 3D-printed carriage (which I've given away, by the way), this is in a totally different league. There should be some vertical rods for opening the doors (or appear to be in pictures), so I'll have to make those from scrap etch. The notes state that only one of these vans had electric lights inside, so I've left the dynamo and battery box off this one. 

 

Apart from the plastic rain strips, everything is soldered-construction on this. The camera has cruelly highlighted by 'blobby' soldering, so there's still some cleaning up to do. The notes with the kit give glue as an alternative method of joining the bits. If I may be so bold, what utter nonsense! This model can be picked up by its brake gear!

 

I very rarely build wagons/vans of any type; this was done for part of a chapter in my forthcoming book. Obviously, the constructional techniques are traditional and I'd be surprised if any alternative 'newer' technology could produce as 'crisp' a model in comparison, but I don't know. The reference to glue as a means of construction is because too many modellers still avoid soldering in my view. If anyone would like to learn about soldering as a medium for building locos/rolling stock, then, please, come along to the Peterborough Show next month where I'll be demonstrating my methods. The hope is that 'pupils' can purchase/bring along an etched wagon/carriage kit, loco chassis, loco kit (including white metal) and I'll run a tutorial 'in the round' so to speak. In a perfect world, any skills learned will then be taken away to complete the model. Here's hoping, anyway.  

Hi Tony,

 

does the kit come with brake gear? On the subject of soldering, the first time I tried it to solder an etched kit together it was a revelation. It was so much easier than faffing around with various glues on non-metal components. I do I love a bit of liquid poly, the closest you will come to soldering with glue and plastic kits. On the subject of signals I recently completed painting the signal seen below in process, painting seems to be another bete noir that prevents people building stuff in brass, plastic or any other construction materials.

[Tony Wright]

Hi Tony,

 

does the kit come with brake gear? On the subject of soldering, the first time I tried it to solder an etched kit together it was a revelation. It was so much easier than faffing around with various glues on non-metal components. I do I love a bit of liquid poly, the closest you will come to soldering with glue and plastic kits. On the subject of signals I recently completed painting the signal seen below in process, painting seems to be another bete noir that prevents people building stuff in brass, plastic or any other construction materials.

Andrew,

 

The kit doesn't come with any brake blocks, so I'll have to source those. 

 

I'm reminded of a statement made by the great Roy Jackson when he was questioned as to whether he'd fitted the correct brake gear to an N5 he'd built. Since the loco was standing at Babworth, and the conversation was taking place by Retford Station, I think the statement (issued in the most inimitable way) was along the lines of not even being able to tell which class of loco it was, let alone whether it had the right brake gear, or even if it had any at all!

 

I'm not suggesting dumbing down standards, but occasionally one (the generic 'one') has to be pragmatic (is that a fancy way of saying 'slipshod'?), or at least I think so. The van in question will probably be inserted in a train of at least 20 other vehicles of various types. Most of these (being freight stock) are the work of others; some kit-built (metal and plastic), others modified/weathered RTR. Since I find the occasional brake block (or even a buffer head) lying in the 4', 6' or 10', I usually have no idea from whence it came. As the trains roll by, I honestly cannot tell, though missing buffers are usually easier to spot. What I would say is that any block is always plastic, never metal. That's the same for bits of trussing, footsteps or lamp brackets - always plastic (read into that what you wish).

 

At any time there are nearly 400 items of locos and stock on LB. If it's a loco or a carriage (or a bogie van) the chances are I've made it. Obviously, not so the four-wheeled freight stock. Why do I mention this? Pragmatism? Even if I could build to a high-standard, how long would it take to fit every conceivable bit of detail to all those rolling stock items, especially stuff underneath solebars which almost disappears when paint/weathering is applied. Take a 14-car express for instance (I have two).The one I've just cited is made up of kits apart from two modified Bachmann Mk. 1s. Kits I've made. I don't seek praise for this, just trying to find an excuse for things lacking in every detail.

 

I certainly don't have the resources to commission everything I need, the scenario where one should expect things to be as accurate and detailed as can be. I have to say (and this is not an excuse), such a situation would never appeal to me anyway. It's far more important to me that a very large amount in and on my model railway is my work. I doubt if I'd derive any pleasure from just being a commissioner of models; even if most of what I've built is lacking in detail. 

 

A very fine signal, by the way. 

[Mallard60022]

Sorry Tony, you will just have to replace those etched springs and dampers - they really let down a lovely vehicle as they lack the 'mass' and 'depth' of the original.

 

Tony

That's an interesting point and I hadn't even thought about it when I did the one shown earlier. 

If I did another, where would you source the parts to do what you suggest or is there another method? I know Comet do some WM springs.

Thanks

Phil

[micklner]

Isinglass milk van 16.jpg

 

 

 

Blobby soldering ? I personally superglue things like handles where they are fitted in positions unlikely to get damaged and don't need additional soldering strength, it saves lot of cleaning up and avoids soldering flowing nicely into plank grooves = total nightmare to clean up without any damage. Door handles e.g on Coaches are never fitted until after painting makes life much easier.

 

Does the Milk Van come with brakes ? much better than the recent Gresley Coach !!

Edited September 29, 2016 by micklner

[Tony Wright]

Blobby soldering ? I personally superglue things like handles where they are fitted in positions unlikely to get damaged and don't need additional soldering strength, it saves lot of cleaning up and avoids soldering flowing nicely into plank grooves = total nightmare to clean up without any damage. Door handles e.g on Coaches are never fitted until after painting makes life much easier.

 

Does the Milk Van come with brakes ? much better than the recent Gresley Coach !!

As mentioned earlier, Mick, no brake blocks and hangers are supplied with the kit. 

 

I cannot agree with you about using superglue to fix brass door furniture on to brass sides. If one is careful, and uses a minimum of solder, cleaning up is not a problem. If a seam/plank groove gets slightly contaminated, I just use a new scalpel blade and clean it out, without damage. 

 

As for fitting door handles with glue after painting, I also cannot agree. The risk of the glue contaminating the paint is too high for me. If the handles need to appear brass, I just carefully scrape of the paint with a curved scalpel. 

 

Though it's each to their own, and if gluing bits on works for you, then, please, carry on. However, I've lost count of the times glue has failed later on and bits just fall off. And, if ever a metal model needs to be stripped, life is made far more difficult if metal-to-metal bits are glued. 

[Headstock]

Andrew,

 

The kit doesn't come with any brake blocks, so I'll have to source those. 

 

I'm reminded of a statement made by the great Roy Jackson when he was questioned as to whether he'd fitted the correct brake gear to an N5 he'd built. Since the loco was standing at Babworth, and the conversation was taking place by Retford Station, I think the statement (issued in the most inimitable way) was along the lines of not even being able to tell which class of loco it was, let alone whether it had the right brake gear, or even if it had any at all!

 

I'm not suggesting dumbing down standards, but occasionally one (the generic 'one') has to be pragmatic (is that a fancy way of saying 'slipshod'?), or at least I think so. The van in question will probably be inserted in a train of at least 20 other vehicles of various types. Most of these (being freight stock) are the work of others; some kit-built (metal and plastic), others modified/weathered RTR. Since I find the occasional brake block (or even a buffer head) lying in the 4', 6' or 10', I usually have no idea from whence it came. As the trains roll by, I honestly cannot tell, though missing buffers are usually easier to spot. What I would say is that any block is always plastic, never metal. That's the same for bits of trussing, footsteps or lamp brackets - always plastic (read into that what you wish).

 

At any time there are nearly 400 items of locos and stock on LB. If it's a loco or a carriage (or a bogie van) the chances are I've made it. Obviously, not so the four-wheeled freight stock. Why do I mention this? Pragmatism? Even if I could build to a high-standard, how long would it take to fit every conceivable bit of detail to all those rolling stock items, especially stuff underneath solebars which almost disappears when paint/weathering is applied. Take a 14-car express for instance (I have two).The one I've just cited is made up of kits apart from two modified Bachmann Mk. 1s. Kits I've made. I don't seek praise for this, just trying to find an excuse for things lacking in every detail.

 

I certainly don't have the resources to commission everything I need, the scenario where one should expect things to be as accurate and detailed as can be. I have to say (and this is not an excuse), such a situation would never appeal to me anyway. It's far more important to me that a very large amount in and on my model railway is my work. I doubt if I'd derive any pleasure from just being a commissioner of models; even if most of what I've built is lacking in detail. 

 

A very fine signal, by the way. 

Hi Tony,

 

I can't claim  that 100% of my own stock has brake gear fitted, mainly for the same reason that nothing has been supplied. My usual excuse is that I can always go back and retrofit some if I feel the need. Still, given the general quality of the kit it is rather surprising that brake gear is absent. The angle that the picture is taken obviously ephasises the lack of brake gear but as you have suggested it becomes less visible while running as part of a train. Is the kit still available?

[micklner]

As mentioned earlier, Mick, no brake blocks and hangers are supplied with the kit. 

 

I cannot agree with you about using superglue to fix brass door furniture on to brass sides. If one is careful, and uses a minimum of solder, cleaning up is not a problem. If a seam/plank groove gets slightly contaminated, I just use a new scalpel blade and clean it out, without damage. 

 

As for fitting door handles with glue after painting, I also cannot agree. The risk of the glue contaminating the paint is too high for me. If the handles need to appear brass, I just carefully scrape of the paint with a curved scalpel. 

 

Though it's each to their own, and if gluing bits on works for you, then, please, carry on. However, I've lost count of the times glue has failed later on and bits just fall off. And, if ever a metal model needs to be stripped, life is made far more difficult if metal-to-metal bits are glued. 

 

I should have added the glue is added from the rear /inside in case of Coaches and vans more than secure for me and never had problems with items coming loose or to surrounding paint. It also makes it much easier to line and place decals on the surfaces of the model.

 

As to removing solder from grooves it is still a pain in the rear end to remove without damage, you can also use scribers, screwdrivers and other metal articles if thin enough as well as blades for the gap. One problem is the Brass can be very soft on some kits and easily damaged.

 

I missed the bit about no brake gear, bizarre for a recent kit.

Edited September 29, 2016 by micklner

[Focalplane]

Tony I hope you don't object:

 

 

I felt that it looked a little bare and needed covering up.

 

Edit to add:  This photo is going to be at least 2x or maybe 3x magnification and the entire backhead will hardly be visible once inside the cab.  But what pleases me is the Tony Wright Philosophy at play.

Edited September 29, 2016 by Focalplane

[Tony Wright]

Tony I hope you don't object:

 

DSC_4593.jpg

 

I felt that it looked a little bare and needed covering up.

 

Edit to add:  This photo is going to be at least 2x or maybe 3x magnification and the entire backhead will hardly be visible once inside the cab.  But what pleases me is the Tony Wright Philosophy at play.

Great stuff, Paul.

 

How could I, or anyone else, object to modelling like this? 

[Tony Wright]

Hi Tony,

 

I can't claim  that 100% of my own stock has brake gear fitted, mainly for the same reason that nothing has been supplied. My usual excuse is that I can always go back and retrofit some if I feel the need. Still, given the general quality of the kit it is rather surprising that brake gear is absent. The angle that the picture is taken obviously ephasises the lack of brake gear but as you have suggested it becomes less visible while running as part of a train. Is the kit still available?

I don't know if the kit is currently available, Andrew.

 

I'd be surprised if it were not. 

[grob1234]

Tony lovely wagon there.

 

Since learning to solder last year having been inspired by this thread and others on RMWeb, my train modelling has been revolutionised. It was an essential skill to learn for my Coronation build, and then equally essential when I decided I wanted to make brass loco kits. Though my first attempts were not great, I persevered and now soldering feels like second nature. I can tell if a joint is good by sight and feel. I love the fact you can make infinite adjustments. No glue can do that after its gone off. I also love the almost instant drying time too. Learning to solder has really opened up a whole new world of modelling and I feel it's an essential skill to possess. When I see work posted to such high standards I realise I have a little way to go yet!

[Tony Wright]

 

Though this technique isn't actually soldering, it's using a soldering iron; to 'force' pin-point bearings into the axleboxes of a Parkside Dundas wagon (the things I do to write a book!)

 

The bearings are a tight fit and by just gently introducing a 'dry' iron tip, they push in really sweetly and securely. Obviously, don't dwell with the iron, but it's much more secure than using any glue. 

[rodger5591]

 

Tony W in post 11826: The notes state that only one of these vans had electric lights inside, so I've left the dynamo and battery box off this one. 

 

Hi Tony

 

Admittedly the notes are open to interpretation (and the font is tiny), but they seem to imply that only one D86 was built with electric lighting, but "it is likely that all were converted to electric lighting after building". Nothing is said of lighting arrangements for the D87 variant of the kit.

 

Interestingly the Chivers notes and the Isinglass notes for the Pigeon van differ over the position of the dynamo and brake cylinder, whether they should be both on the same (non ducket) side (Isinglass), or on opposite sides (Chivers).

 

The Chivers notes also say that most of the Pigeon vans in later life were painted all over brown by the LNER, presumably during the war, thus losing their black ends.  Would this have also been the case for the D86/87 vans too?

 

Its a pity both Isinglass kits don;t have brake blocks supplied- not easy to fit them to rocking W-irons if the unit is already attached to the floor (at least for me)

 

Rodger

Edited September 30, 2016 by rodger5591

[Headstock]

There could be a valid reason for the confusion regarding the position of the dynamo on the BY's. The kits that have been produced down the years have often been rather generic, combining features of similar diagrams of the same type of van. Better to check with photographs.

[jwealleans]

The D120 Pigeon vans were initially finished in carriage varnished teak (see the preserved example on the North Norfolk Railway), so to be painted brown was a change in livery for them.

 

The D86/87 vans would always have been brown, like the majority of NPCCS on the LNER. Under the LNER they had what I think was a unique style of lettering as well, but that's not going to concern Tony.