Wright writes.....

[Lecorbusier]

If I average the number of wheels out, say, six per loco, that's, according to my maths,  getting on for 3,000 drivers I've fitted, almost exclusively Romford Markits. I admit, I've had a few in the early days which were a little bit wobbly, but very few. I have never had to put a tyre back on a rim, never had to adjust the quartering and never had a wheel slip on its axle. Compare (contrast) that with the half dozen or so locos I've built with friction fit wheels, say 36 drivers. I've never had a set of six which exactly 'matched', having to pair up (hopefully), those which shared the same lack of concentricity. At least a third have shed their tyres (loads more on wagon wheels, but that's another story) and on at least half I've had to 'pin' the wheel to its axle to prevent it shifting under load; that is, drill a hole at 45 degrees through the boss into the axle, insert a brass pin and glue it in place. Roy Jackson has had to do this as well after wheels shifted on their axles under heavy load. 

Can't comment on Markits, but there is a whole thread on the scaleforum dealing with problems of 'wobbly' plastic centred wheels and possible remedies. Quite a few involving the use of a lathe. The wheels do look good though!

Edited March 15, 2018 by Lecorbusier

[Tony Wright]

Tut tut Tony!!!!

 

MIke.

Forgive my being thick, Mike, but what's wrong? 

 

My maths or my English?

[Tony Wright]

..... But the wheels looked great    Why do you think it nods up and down?

They're not true-round; unlike the Markits ones I fitted to the other locos on the DVD.

[jwealleans]

I think the suggestion is that ‘exclusively’ is an absolute and does not have degree, so ‘almost’ exclusively is less than correct.

[RBAGE]

100 lines, I think.

Edited March 15, 2018 by RBAGE

[rowanj]

I don't think that, in OO anyway, there is much dispute that Markits are easier to use than Gibsons or W&T, They are, IMHO, more solid, and simpler to quarter, and I personally, as a DC user, find a live chassis an easier build, so having a non- insulated wheels option is a bonus.  However, I too have struggled to get hold of Markits, and resorted to Gibsons out of necessity .I couldn't contact Markits by phone, e-mails went unanswered, and I finally reverted to posting an order, complete with card details. this also produced no response. Perhaps things have improved lately, but having a great product is not much use if you cant buy it. The only recent problem I have had with Markits is a failure of insulation on the insulated wheels - probably as a result of a careless excess of flux..

 

Having said that, albeit by default, I have used and had no issues with either W&T or Gibson plastic-centred wheels. The former run on Romford axles and are tapped for Romford crankpins. I quarter the Gibsons by eye, and then add a touch of superglue  once I am satisfied the run smoothly and are unlikely to need to be removed again. I cant seem to fit Gibson crankpins properly, so use Romfords, as I find they self-tap the hole in the Gibson wheels after opening it out slightly.

 

The fact that they are effectively half the price of Markits is, of course, purely incidental.

[Tony Wright]

I think the suggestion is that ‘exclusively’ is an absolute and does not have degree, so ‘almost’ exclusively is less than correct.

Thanks Jonathan,

 

In the same way that folk often qualify 'unique', wrongly? 

 

As I say, one learns something every day. 

 

One thing I would say is I'd hate to think that readers of this thread might be reluctant to post anything because they fear their English might be 'corrected', with the implication being that they're not that bright. I don't mind; it's part of the fun as far as I'm concerned and, as Mike has shewn recently, with his missing possessive apostrophe, pendants (and I'm one) get rumbled from time to time. 

 

I do try and insist upon correct English, and I should be picked-up on my mistakes, but others shouldn't feel they'll be in the 'firing line'. 

 

This thread is, after all, about modelling. 

 

 

Which brings me on to this; the progress so far on the SE Finecast J6. Having spent a lovely time out with some dear friends for lunch today, progress has been slightly curtailed. However, I've got this far in about seven hours, which isn't too bad. 

 

P.S. With apologies in advance for any grammatical errors. And, might we see some pedants' modelling, please? 

[St Enodoc]

Thanks Jonathan,

 

In the same way that folk often qualify 'unique', wrongly? 

 

As I say, one learns something every day. 

 

One thing I would say is I'd hate to think that readers of this thread might be reluctant to post anything because they fear their English might be 'corrected', with the implication being that they're not that bright. I don't mind; it's part of the fun as far as I'm concerned and, as Mike has shewn recently, with his missing possessive apostrophe, pendants (and I'm one) get rumbled from time to time. 

 

I do try and insist upon correct English, and I should be picked-up on my mistakes, but others shouldn't feel they'll be in the 'firing line'. 

 

This thread is, after all, about modelling. 

 

DSC_8927.JPG

 

Which brings me on to this; the progress so far on the SE Finecast J6. Having spent a lovely time out with some dear friends for lunch today, progress has been slightly curtailed. However, I've got this far in about seven hours, which isn't too bad. 

 

P.S. With apologies in advance for any grammatical errors. And, might we see some pedants' modelling, please? 

All pendants should be hung (or hanged)...

 

Sorry Tony!

[Anglian]

There are some jobs that pedantry is a prerequisite and on that note is it possible to have a prerequisite? How does one pre-order something? Either you are placing and order or you are not. Surely a pre-order would be informing the vendor that you are about to place an order. I think I better stop there.

[jwealleans]

 

There are some jobs that pedantry is a prerequisite...

 

There are some jobs for which pedantry is a prerequisite...

 

Sorry, couldn't resist. 

 

Maybe this aspect of the thread should be continued elsewhere?

[Jesse Sim]

Thanks Jonathan,

 

In the same way that folk often qualify 'unique', wrongly? 

 

As I say, one learns something every day. 

 

One thing I would say is I'd hate to think that readers of this thread might be reluctant to post anything because they fear their English might be 'corrected', with the implication being that they're not that bright. I don't mind; it's part of the fun as far as I'm concerned and, as Mike has shewn recently, with his missing possessive apostrophe, pendants (and I'm one) get rumbled from time to time. 

 

I do try and insist upon correct English, and I should be picked-up on my mistakes, but others shouldn't feel they'll be in the 'firing line'. 

 

This thread is, after all, about modelling. 

 

DSC_8927.JPG

 

Which brings me on to this; the progress so far on the SE Finecast J6. Having spent a lovely time out with some dear friends for lunch today, progress has been slightly curtailed. However, I've got this far in about seven hours, which isn't too bad. 

 

P.S. With apologies in advance for any grammatical errors. And, might we see some pedants' modelling, please? 

Hi Tony,

 

I have three whitemetal kits I am going to attempt to build in the next couple of weeks, waiting for some solder and flux to arrive from Melbourne, and then I'll get cracking. My question is, what temperature should the iron be? 

 

I'll also send the money to Dan of D&S Models to get my six kits I've ordered from him. 

 

I also ask if I get stuck with anything, can I post in here and get your help? 

 

Jesse

 

I'll order a J6 and bring it along in August, hopefully we might get through the frames and motor, cause thats where I think I would struggle the most in the beginners course. 

 

I also ask if it will be good/okay that I bring one of my own goods trains to the back dating? 

[Chuffer Davies]

Most interesting points about wheels; many thanks.

 

As Jol has mentioned, different experiences, different opinions. 

 

My experiences, my opinions..................... If others have had nothing but satisfaction from friction-fit drivers, then I'm delighted.  

Hi Tony,

I can completely understand why you have a strong preference for Markit wheels which would appear to be the pragmatic solution for locomotives that are destined to run on LB and the like.  Heavy trains inevitably put a significant strain on the wheels and in the event of am unexpected stall causing a worm driven axle to stop dead the weight of the train will put even greater stress on the wheel/axle interface.  I accept that in this extreme situation their is a real risk that plastic wheels might slip on their axles.

 

My biggest problem with Markit wheels is the unsightly wheel nut.   When modellers strive to achieve the greatest accuracy possible, even to the extent that they debate the correctness of a particular wheel profile, I find it strange that they are then prepared to leave the Markit wheel nuts on show.

 

I have used a variety of plastic centred wheels over the years: Sharman, Alan Gibson and in the main Ultrascale.  Yes Ultrascale delivery times are typically 6 months but given the usual elapsed time for me between acquiring a kit and getting to the point I need the wheels I have rarely been delayed and have always been delighted with the quality of the product. 

 

When fitting the wheels for the last time I always Loctite them onto the axles and I have never had any subsequently fail with the one exception detailed below.  I also have never been tempted to 'pin' the wheel onto the axle and I am unconvinced that a pin would actually stop the wheel from going out of quarter if the boss lost its grip on the axle. 

 

I have only once had a plastic centred wheel fail on a loco in service and this was a crack in the boss of the driven wheel on a 61xx which was easily replaced by contacting Ultrascale.  I think the fact it fell off a layout onto a carpet was probably what caused it to fail.   

 

I accept that Gibson wheels can be a bit hit and miss, in particular my experience even since ownership changed hands is that their tender wheels are not correctly centred and so if I use them I always expect to re-machine the centres.  Their drivers tend to be of a more consistent quality.  One significant limitation with Gibson wheels is that they don't like having shorting wires soldered to the rims, something which is required when utilising split frame or American style pickup systems.  Unless you are very quick with the iron the expansion of the rim due to the heat causes it to separate from the plastic centre.  Having learnt this important lesson I now know to use a hot iron and plenty of flux to minimise the risk. This is not a problem with Sharman or Ultrascale wheels.

 

In my experience the risk of plastic centred wheels failing on small loco's or even large loco's on small layouts is extremely small and I would encourage modellers to experiment with plastic centred wheels because of the improved visual appearance that can be achieved. 

 

I attach a picture of an LRM C12 with Ultrascale wheels  as an illustration of this.  This loco will have to work hard pulling trains up the 1:50 gradient on the forthcoming Clayton layout and I have every confidence that it will be up to the task.  Before you compliment me on my paintwork please note that Mr Rathbone should be credited for this. 

Regards,

Frank

[Jack P]

Tony, 

 

As my first post in this topic, I just want to first mention it is obviously the thread to be in! Very fast paced, someone always seems to be posting, if I miss a day or more I often have multiple pages to catch up on!

 

You have also inspired me to take my modelling by the horns and begin the process of learning to build (solder) my own kits. A fate of being consigned to opening boxes and repainting/renumbering has begun to lose its appeal.

 

You mention tom Foster, who weathered some of your loco stock, I'm sure he must be the same Tom that was on this forum previously, but has since disappeared. Is he still about? Does he post anywhere? I am happy to drop you a PM for the info required if there are links that cannot be posted here. 

[chrisf]

He now posts as 9793.

 

Chris

[Bucoops]

edit: managed to lose the quote - this was in reply to Mr Wright's request for pictures of work. Happy to put my money where my mouth is as it were, for what it's worth

 

I'll bite  These are the first kits I've attempted this century and the first ones I've tried to solder - two previous ones were white metal and glued - and looked awful

 

I'm building these ones in quiet time at work. I don't seem to get much quiet time so are taking forever

 

Stelfox N7/3 - 

 

 

 

 

To be LNER number 2600 - first of the Doncaster built batch.

 

And I'm also building a Jamieson A1 using Comet valvegear. This one is feeling a bit neglected at the moment - next time I hit a snag on the N7 I've promised myself to get back on it. I've messed the boiler up a bit, and still need to think of a way of rectifying that. I have brake gear to fit now as well.

 

 

 

Edited March 16, 2018 by Bucoops

[Chamby]

......

 

I attach a picture of an LRM C12 with Ultrascale wheels  as an illustration of this.  This loco will have to work hard pulling trains up the 1:50 gradient on the forthcoming Clayton layout and I have every confidence that it will be up to the task.  Before you compliment me on my paintwork please note that Mr Rathbone should be credited for this. 

Photo 6 - C12 - Derek Shore.jpg

Regards,

Frank

what a lovely model. A quick question about the livery if I may. Post war, would any LNER locomotives have carried the red-lined black livery but with yellow Gill Sans lettering, or would they have lost the body side lining by the time they were renumbered?

 

Phil.

[micklner]

what a lovely model. A quick question about the livery if I may. Post war, would any LNER locomotives have carried the red-lined black livery but with yellow Gill Sans lettering, or would they have lost the body side lining by the time they were renumbered?

 

Phil.

 

Hornby have done a LNER B1 in that livery with shaded Yellow lettering, and looks very nice too. Photos maybe the answer, cant think of any in Black with Gill Sans, it was used on B1's in the LNER Apple Green livery .

[micklner]

A coach on the go at the moment. This now ready painting.

 

A very old  A.F.Hammond H&BR Suburban Composite Brake 3rd this is eBay find. This was bought as the Brass etches only , the remainder of the Coach has been sourced from 51L and MJT parts.

 

 

 

[Chamby]

Hornby have done a LNER B1 in that livery with shaded Yellow lettering, and looks very nice too. Photos maybe the answer, cant think of any in Black with Gill Sans, it was used on B1's in the LNER Apple Green livery .

The HMRS transfer sheet for yellow LNER locomotive lettering and numbering states that the unshaded Gill Sans lettering was used after 1946 as a replacement for the shaded lettering. This implies that from the 1946 renumbering, it was intended that the unshaded font would be used. Being such a short period of time, this period seems to be less commonly modelled (or photographed) although the RTR manufacturers have produced a new build B1 and A2 with this lettering (both in apple green) and I have also seen it applied to J94’s with unlined black livery. Photo’s seem to suggest that most locomotives still carried shaded lettering into nationalisation, even after receiving their 1946 renumbering which runs contrary to my interpretation of the HMRS guidance.

 

I have a renamed/renumbered D11/1 in Red-lined black livery with unshaded yellow Gill Sans lettering... this sounds feasible from the HMRS guidelines but I have yet to see any photographs from this short period of time of a locomotive actually running with this combination. Hence the question!

 

Phil.

[chris p bacon]

The current project is something on my wish list since 10 years old. At the time I did chop and carve an Airfix Pug up with a knife to try and make one, but luckily that has not survived the passing of time to remind me just how bad it probably was.

 

The locomotive is 'Shannon' (or as others know it Wantage Tramway No 5 'Jane') and the only way to get one is to make it yourself, so I've drawn the artwork and had it etched. This was the first evenings work so I thought I'd start with one of the simple components, the cylinder block.

 

 

Some more detail to add such as the cylinder covers (end and side)  and to trim back the piston rod guides. 

 

 

[micklner]

The HMRS transfer sheet for yellow LNER locomotive lettering and numbering states that the unshaded Gill Sans lettering was used after 1946 as a replacement for the shaded lettering. This implies that from the 1946 renumbering, it was intended that the unshaded font would be used. Being such a short period of time, this period seems to be less commonly modelled (or photographed) although the RTR manufacturers have produced a new build B1 and A2 with this lettering (both in apple green) and I have also seen it applied to J94’s with unlined black livery. Photo’s seem to suggest that most locomotives still carried shaded lettering into nationalisation, even after receiving their 1946 renumbering which runs contrary to my interpretation of the HMRS guidance.

 

I have a renamed/renumbered D11/1 in Red-lined black livery with unshaded yellow Gill Sans lettering... this sounds feasible from the HMRS guidelines but I have yet to see any photographs from this short period of time of a locomotive actually running with this combination. Hence the question!

 

Phil.

 

Exactly why I said always use photos, never believe guidelines !! 

[Michael Edge]

My long experience of model locomotive wheels runs as follows.

I first discovered Romford wheels about 1960 and thought they were wonderful then, they were generally accurately machined and could be put on and taken off the axles as many times as I wanted to. However they came in a very restricted range of sizes, notably nothing between 21mm and 24mm diameter so I changed to Hamblings. These went on with a special wheel press (which I still have), were quartered with this tool and ran true every time - they could only be fitted once though. I have quite a few of these still running in locos, the main drawback was that the tyres were normally brass, very occasionally nickel silver.

Once I acquired a lathe other options became available, first was machining steel tyres to fit on Hornby Dublo wheel centres which mostly looked a lot better. i think one set of these is still in running order under a H/D 2-6-4T.

K's wheels became standard for a long time, I liked the steel tyres (better adhesion) and they could be machined true if necessary, many of these are still in use today.

Stephen Poole produced a range of very nice looking wheels, accurately machined and better appearance - but the tyres were aluminium and mostly useless for electrical pickup after a short while. 

About 1977 Sharman wheels appeared and seemed to be the answer to all problems at first. I used lots of these on my own and customer's locos but deficiencies quickly appeared. First of all the tyres were very narrow, Mike had attempted to make a "universal" 00/EM/P4 wheel - and failed. More importantly they wobbled and couldn't be skimmed true because the undercut into the tyre left very little metal in the centre of the tread, this undercut did stop the tyres falling off though. The plastic Mike used was hygroscopic and unstable, I had some locos back a few years ago, built in the early 1970s, the wheel centres had shrunk away from the tyres completely in places leaving a gap.

David Stapleton (Phoenix Precision) took over the Sharman range, saw the main problem immediately and fixed it by changing to glass filled nylon (Slater's use this in 7mm). He then shot himself in the foot by continuing to sell off the old stock, the new ones were perfect apart from the narrow tyre dimension but selling the old ones left the reputation unimproved.

When Gibson wheels first appeared all seemed well again, a growing range of accurate models of actual wheels but it wasn't long before the problems of wobble and tyres falling off appeared. At least the tyres could be glued back on with superglue and the wheels re-machined, they steel used was free machining and I did this routinely for years. 

Colin Seymour took over Gibson, knew the problem and fixed it straight away by matching tyre size to wheel centre and generally being more careful. He also had the good sense to bin all the old stock but the bad reputation lingers on - much easier to acquire than to lose.

Of the others available, Ultrascale are perfectly accurate but very prone to slipping on the axles, many builders routinely pin them on. i rarely use them unless a customer supplies them but I have discovered that knurling the axle ends (quite crudely, rolling with a file) secures them pretty well. The W&T/Scalelink ones are not as good as Markits but a lot cheaper, they are often a bit wobbly and the plastic isn't really strong enough to stand up to machining.

To sum up, mostly I use Gibson wheels but not their crankpin system, I drill and tap them for Romford crankpins. I do use Markits in many cases and often temporarily for setting up frames but they are much wider than the original Romford profile and are overscale across tyre faces even in EM let alone P4. Possibly relating to my former experience with Hamblings I normally only fit wheels once, Gibson don't take kindly to being removed and re-fitted a few times.

Apologies if this is a bit long winded but I have long and varied experience here, I've been building as a full time job for 41 years now.

[Atso]

Hi all,

 

I thought I'd share my progress, after a bit of a delay, on my 3D printed GNR full brake body.

 

 

A bit of a cruel close up of a model that is c. 66mm long! However, it does show that I've still got a couple of bits and pieces to sort out before I'm happy with it. This type of model is probably the most time consuming print to clean up and I think the results will be worth it!

[Tom F]

 

You mention tom Foster, who weathered some of your loco stock, I'm sure he must be the same Tom that was on this forum previously, but has since disappeared. Is he still about? Does he post anywhere? I am happy to drop you a PM for the info required if there are links that cannot be posted here.

 

I do indeed post here occasionally (primarily here and Jonathan Wealleans thread). I’m currently planning the next layout....very much North a Eastern again! Back to my roots.

 

 

 

More info on LNER forum

https://www.lner.info/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=12623

[Chamby]

Exactly why I said always use photos, never believe guidelines !! 

 

Ah yes, photo's.  Great, if you have them.

 

One of the reasons I chose to model 1948-51 is the wide range of liveries available, with some locomotives carrying their LNER numbers and liveries through to the end of 1949, but also the BRITISH RAILWAYS and later cycling lion emblems appearing. And of course when the displaced A3's were transferred to the GC they were all renumbered with the 6 prefix, but some were in Apple Green (BRITISH RAILWAYS lettering) and some carried the new Blue 'cycling lion' liveries.  Happy days.

 

But the downside is that post-war grouping era photographs are not widely available, particularly for the more everyday locomotives so generalisations do have to be made.  Identifying specific locomotives liveries during this period is not easy, due to the rapid number of changes, that each took place over time.  For example, Yeadons guide for the D9 reveals that Gorton works were still out-shopping renumbered locomotives with shaded lettering at the end of 1947 - photo's for at least one example of D10 and D11 classes also show that 1946 renumbering was applied with shaded transfers for some of the class.  I also understand that the red lining was dropped as an economy measure around 1941, but of course some locomotives may have still carried their earlier repaints for several years after that date.  I think it highly unlikely that a D11/1 carried the red lining with unshaded Gill Sans lettering... but you never know!  The most common livery so far as I can tell is unlined black with post-1946 numbering and shaded yellow lettering, so a repaint looks to be on the cards.

 

Phil.

Edited March 16, 2018 by Chamby