Wright writes.....

[dolydd]

Tony

Roedd dy ffrind y Gymraes yn iawn. Pam ddylai fod gennym ddiddordeb mewn deall beth mae pobl yn Lloegr yn ei ddeud?!

 

And for any monoglots around, I'll try my best to translate.

 

 

You friend the Welshwoman was correct. Why should we be interested in what people in England ar saying?!

 

Incidentally railway modelling is not a Welsh speaker‘s hobby as far as I can see. Is there anyone else out there??

Edited June 30, 2018 by dolydd

[APOLLO]

I had a very enjoyable day.

 

And that is what railway modelling is all about.

 

Brit15

[St Enodoc]

“Can I get?” instead of “May I have?”

Standard usage in Australia.

[manna]

Tony

Roedd dy ffrind y Gymraes yn iawn. Pam ddylai fod gennym ddiddordeb mewn deall beth mae pobl yn Lloegr yn ei ddeud?!

 

And for any monoglots around, I'll try my best to translate.

 

 

You friend the Welshwoman was correct. Why should we be interested in what people in England ar saying?!

 

Incidentally railway modelling is not a Welsh speaker‘s hobby as far as I can see. Is there anyone else out there??

G'Day Folks

 

I agree that the Welsh language should be used in Wales, but to be taught at the exclusion of English, is I think a bad idea, it will in the long run, exclude that persons from a lot of jobs, an Airline Pilot, for one, all Pilots have to speak English. So Bi-Lingual is a much better idea.

 

Terry (aka manna) 

[Compound2632]

Airline Pilot, for one, all Pilots have to speak English. 

 

There are plenty of non-English-Native-Speaker airline pilots...

[St Enodoc]

There are plenty of non-English-Native-Speaker airline pilots...

...but most of them were probably taught English as a second language at school or college.

[Tony Wright]

There's a nice pair and I'm sure someone will be along to snap them up. Not that I know much about things steamy, is the D20 the one with straight or curvy mudguards?

Mudguards!!!!!!!!!

 

They're splashers, you Philistine (lover of non-steam, tongue-in-cheek). 

 

The D20 has the straight-top to its, the D40 the curved. Here endeth the lesson.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Enterprisingwestern]

Mudguards!!!!!!!!!

 

They're splashers, you Philistine (lover of non-steam, tongue-in-cheek). 

 

The D20 has the straight-top to its, the D40 the curved. Here endeth the lesson.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

Splashers jump in water and splash around, I think mudguards is a much more accurate description!

 

Mike.

[Tony Wright]

Good morning Tony. 

 

I suspect you find these accents incomprehensible due to their unfamiliarity. Glasgow is a good example; Aberdeen (particularly 'the Doric') is another. If you haven't heard them before, they may throw you until you 'get your ear in', so to speak. But... We have all heard you. For a very long time everyone on television talked like you. We've been exposed to your dialect and have grown accustomed to it; you have not heard ours and so are bemused.

 

My point is that the way you speak is not inherently more comprehensible than other any version of English; it's just that yours is a more familiar patois thanks to a century of effort by the BBC and others. The appearance of regional accents onscreen is a belated effort to redress the balance, and should be welcomed* as both a recognition of the equal cultural validity of different parts of the UK and as an attempt to eliminate a longstanding bias.

 

The Scottish poet James Robertson highlighted this in most amusing fashion by highlighting the difference between 'the news' and 'the news where you are'...

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhL57cjN8xY

 

Regards,

Gavin

 

 

 

*There is an extremely long and lamentable history of a particular kind of colonising linguistic influence at work in 'the regions', spreading from the south of England (as the centre of political and economic strength); in my native Northern Ireland this is an extremely live topic, as the issue of recognising local language has prevented the power-sharing executive from reforming since it collapsed. One notable historical fact is that the British all but eradicated Gaelic as working language in the north of Ireland in only 40 years. But discussing the power dynamics at play in linguistic homogenisation comes perilously close to breaking RMWeb's 'no politics' rule, so I shall tiptoe away from it again!

 

 

edit: I posted this before I noted the stop to the discussion requested above. I shall leave it in place, simply because I think the points in it are worth making (and the youtube video is genuinely funny), but I have no desire to continue the discussion in the face of Tony's request to stop. My post was not made in defiance of that request but in ignorance of it! My apologies, Tony.

Gavin,

 

Never, ever feel the need to apologise to me.

 

Your post, as ever, is enlightening and amusing. 

 

Since it's probably best to let the subject go, I'll say little more; other than if by 'redressing the balance', we accept 'gerrin', 'purrin', 'wa'er' (water) 'yous', 'tekkin' (taking) and other appalling (to me) manglings of 'correct' pronunciation of this wonderful language of ours, then I certainly don't welcome it - I abhor it. But then, born, as I was, not long after the War, I grew up listening to Sylvia Peters, Richard Dimbleby, Brian Johnstone (before he was a cricket commentator), Raymond Baxter, Raymond Glendenning, Hugh Weldon and others with wonderful 'accents'. Speaking of accents - I love them, as long as all the words are pronounced correctly. Take the wonderful John Arlott (the cricket commentators' ultimate commentator?). He spoke in a delightful Hampshire 'burr', but his pronunciation was perfect. Not for him 'Are yous guys gerrin a ba' today?' Do we have to 'suffer' the likes of that? 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Tony Wright]

Tony,

 

Saw this and thought of you...

 

IMAG4727.jpg

 

It's cast from solid concrete and about 4'long so probably doesn't need further weight.

 

I have pointed out to the caster that he needs to fit lamps, buffers and a crew. Also looks like some work is required to the pony wheels.

Chris,

 

Can you also point out that it's got the wrong dome - indeed, the wrong boiler? With the deep cab cut-outs, 4472 was only ever an A1; up until after the War in fact.

 

Thanks,

 

Tony. 

[CUTLER2579]

Chris,

 

Can you also point out that it's got the wrong dome - indeed, the wrong boiler? With the deep cab cut-outs, 4472 was only ever an A1; up until after the War in fact.

 

Thanks,

 

 

 

 

Surely the Brick built A4 on the outskirts of  Darlington would be more appropriate,especially if they have made any mistakes as Mr Wright could then explain that the builders had dropped a Brick.

Regards.

[Lecorbusier]

Gavin,

 

Never, ever feel the need to apologise to me.

 

Your post, as ever, is enlightening and amusing. 

 

Since it's probably best to let the subject go, I'll say little more; other than if by 'redressing the balance', we accept 'gerrin', 'purrin', 'wa'er' (water) 'yous', 'tekkin' (taking) and other appalling (to me) manglings of 'correct' pronunciation of this wonderful language of ours, then I certainly don't welcome it - I abhor it. But then, born, as I was, not long after the War, I grew up listening to Sylvia Peters, Richard Dimbleby, Brian Johnstone (before he was a cricket commentator), Raymond Baxter, Raymond Glendenning, Hugh Weldon and others with wonderful 'accents'. Speaking of accents - I love them, as long as all the words are pronounced correctly. Take the wonderful John Arlott (the cricket commentators' ultimate commentator?). He spoke in a delightful Hampshire 'burr', but his pronunciation was perfect. Not for him 'Are yous guys gerrin a ba' today?' Do we have to 'suffer' the likes of that? 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Horses for courses me thinks .... room for both in the right contexts. 

 

What you describe as sloppy pronunciations can in many instances be far more than that ... on the one hand they are often a residual group memory of an earlier iteration of the proto words from which many pronunciations have developed, on the other they come in tandem with a sentence construction which creates a meaning and cadence to the language which is specific to a given location and dialect - and more often than not has a specific meaning or inflection. Just pronouncing 'BBC/Queen's' English with a regional burr gives none of this richness or heritage. Sometimes of course speech is just slovenly or affected, but more often this is not the case. As a relatively modern example, Reggae or Ska would sound risible in received pronunciation and would lose most of its poetry and power.

 

I have recently been reading my grandfather's holiday diaries from the 40s. He was born and bred in the Sheffield/Peak district area and the way he constructs sentences and uses dialect is fascinating. Meanings change radically and the ear has to be tuned in, and words are spelled at times in a dialect manner such that one has to read them out loud before the full meaning is understood.

 

I find it fascinating the extent to which English spelling is a mix and match confection with few rules, and that the fixing of many spellings such that the pronunciation bears no relation to the phonetics was as much by historic chance as by design. Indeed the spellings in many cases were derived from an area in the country where the dialect would have pronounced the words differently ... hence the anomaly. 

 

I have recently been enjoying Melvyn Bragg and 'the adventure of English' which is an accessible romp through the whole subject, which as I am no expert has been very educative. It explains for instance why english developed to use a myriad of small link words to supply meaning rather than the use of word endings and gender ... which again was all about dialects and trade.

 

For me we should celebrate the richness and differences, whilst remaining justly proud of the Queen's English.

Edited July 1, 2018 by Lecorbusier

[Tony Wright]

Horses for courses me thinks .... room for both in the right contexts. 

 

What you describe as sloppy pronunciations can in many instances be far more than that ... on the one hand they are often a residual group memory of an earlier iteration of the proto words from which many pronunciations have developed, on the other they come in tandem with a sentence construction which creates a meaning and cadence to the language which is specific to a given location and dialect - and more often than not has a specific meaning or inflection. Just pronouncing 'BBC/Queen's' English with a regional burr gives none of this richness or heritage. Sometimes of course speech is just slovenly or affected, but more often this is not the case. As a relatively modern example, Reggae or Ska would sound risible in received pronunciation and would lose most of its poetry and power.

 

I have recently been reading my grandfather's holiday diaries from the 40s. He was born and bred in the Sheffield/Peak district area and the way he constructs sentences and uses dialect is fascinating. Meanings change radically and the ear has to be tuned in, and words are spelled at times in a dialect manner such that one has to read them out load before the full meaning is understood.

 

I find it fascinating the extent to which English spelling is a mix and match confection with few rules, and that the fixing of many spellings such that the pronunciation bears no relation to the phonetics was as much by historic chance as by design. Indeed the spellings in many cases were derived from an area in the country where the dialect would have pronounced the words differently ... hence the anomaly. 

 

I have recently been enjoying Melvyn Bragg and 'the adventure of English' which is an accessible romp through the whole subject, which as I am no expert has been very educative. It explains for instance why english developed to use a myriad of small link words to supply meaning rather than the use of word endings and gender ... which again was all about dialects and trade.

 

For me we should celebrate the richness and differences, whilst remaining justly proud of the Queen's English.

Thanks Tim,

 

Some interesting observations, as always. 

 

As I said, I love regional accents, but if the English is 'wrong' in them, I can't see how this can be acceptable in the media. 

 

For instance; I mentioned the irreplaceable John Arlott, along with EW Swanton and Brian Johnstone the finest commentators on cricket I've ever listened to. Arlott had a strong Hampshire accent, but both Swanton and Johnstone had (old-fashioned) BBC accents. I found each one of their voices wonderful to hear. 

 

Though Arlott's accent was not 'typical' of the time, his use of English was perfect. However, though we now have more cricket commentators who've got just as strong (but different) regional accents, they're use of English is awful. Can you imagine JA saying 'He's gone and took guard'? Or, 'Myself and so and so were discussing..............'? Or, and this is from a university-educated commentator, 'I'm sat here talking with..........'? I just cringe when I hear this sort of thing. Do their producers not ask why their English is so poor? Do they not know as well? 

 

As I've said, probably enough of this for now. However, to finish, though the English in the following statement is 'awful', I found it very endearing; 'Am yo', tekkin' we toe the pictuures?' was a question posed by a resident of Dudley (Duddelie) to a friend of mine who wrote a book on cinemas of the Black Country, for which I provided some of the illustrations. Isn't that delightful? The difference is that the questioner was not a presenter in the media. 

 

Finally, and I found this very amusing regarding accents. I used to teach with a guy who'd worked in South Africa for a time, and he'd got a lilt of that country's tongue in his speech, though he was a born and bred Black Countryman.'How easy was it to pick-up the accent?' I asked him. 'Easy, you just pronounce every vowel as it it were an 'i'. Try it.  

 

To return to models; I'm delighted to say the D20, D40, G5 and (probably) the B2 have now all sold. My most grateful thanks to those who've bought them. 10% of sales will go to CR. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Lecorbusier]

I partially agree Tony .... but I think my 'come back' would be Fred Dibnah - I am so pleased none saw fit to correct him despite the fact he was a TV presenter.

 

Anyway ... it would be boring if we all agreed about everything would it not?

 

 

Edit ... for those who are interested there is a series which Bragg also did on the development of english

 

Edited July 1, 2018 by Lecorbusier

[APOLLO]

Try to "correct" Fred and you would have an ear full of basic Anglo Saxon delivered in a very broad Boltonian accent (or a clout round the lug hole) !!!!

 

I find this standardisation of spoken English a bit tiresome - talk as you naturally do / have done for many years - and that's it.

 

I took the girls for an open day visit to Lancaster University yesterday. One speaker (I think he was the head) came on stage, and immediately apologised for his Stoke on Trent accent - Why ? - he spoke perfectly understandable English.

 

(God I hate doing spell checks when I post here - in case I get detention !!)

 

Brit15

[St Enodoc]

Try to "correct" Fred and you would have an ear full of basic Anglo Saxon delivered in a very broad Boltonian accent (or a clout round the lug hole) !!!!

 

I find this standardisation of spoken English a bit tiresome - talk as you naturally do / have done for many years - and that's it.

 

I took the girls for an open day visit to Lancaster University yesterday. One speaker (I think he was the head) came on stage, and immediately apologised for his Stoke on Trent accent - Why ? - he spoke perfectly understandable English.

 

(God I hate doing spell checks when I post here - in case I get detention !!)

 

Brit15

A number of years ago several of us were relaxing in the Royal Station Hotel at York after a dinner. At the bar one of us bumped into Fred, who had been speaking at a different function in the hotel. When he found out that we were railway engineers he abandoned his hosts and spent the rest of the evening swapping tall tales with us. Great fun.

[Tony Wright]

Many thanks for the further comments.

 

I thought Fred Dibnah was brilliant, both as a presenter of what he was doing and as a commentator of all things mechanical (as long as they were old). 

 

Now, to those locos I mentioned..................

 

 

Though this has sold, it's such a pretty loco that I thought I'd post its picture on here, anyway.

 

 

This, subject to the potential buyer seeing this picture, has also sold. I rather like this one, because it's in the condition it was the year I was born (1946). 

 

 

This isn't in the same league as the others, but it's unusual. It's an A6, built from a Little Engines kit (I think). It does run quite well, but centre drivers flangeless? And those pony/bogie wheels are worse than RTR ones. If anyone's interested, I'm asking £75.00. 

 

 

This is better, though the chassis lacks brakes. Built from a Nu-Cast kit, £100.00 will secure it. 

 

 

Anyone like to take pity on this dear old K's thingy? It's all K's, and runs backwards (though which way is forwards?) to the rest of the OO locos I have. Anyone care to offer?

 

Thanks in anticipation. 

Edited July 1, 2018 by Tony Wright

[CUTLER2579]

Tony,

 

 I'm quite sure any cricket fan will remember Brian Johnstone one of  the finest commentators on cricket I've ever listened to. He was attributed to saying live on Test Match Special in 1991 when England were playing the West Indies " The bowlers Holding the batsman's Willey"  This was a reference to Michael  Holding the West Indies bowler and Peter Willey the Northamptonshire batsman.

 

Regards,Derek.

[Chamby]

Tony, can you check whether your message box is full? It appears not to be accepting any more PM’s.

 

Phil.

[rowanj]

Tony,

 

I'm quite sure any cricket fan will remember Brian Johnstone one of the finest commentators on cricket I've ever listened to. He was attributed to saying live on Test Match Special in 1991 when England were playing the West Indies " The bowlers Holding the batsman's Willey" This was a reference to Michael Holding the West Indies bowler and Peter Willey the Northamptonshire batsman.

 

Regards,Derek.

As we are in pedant mode,I believe the Test in question was in 1976 and was made by Brian Johnston, not Johnstone.

 

Now to get back to that A3 chassis...

Edited July 1, 2018 by rowanj

[Tony Wright]

Tony, can you check whether your message box is full? It appears not to be accepting any more PM’s.

 

Phil.

Will do,

 

But, if it's full, how do I empty it, please? 

[chris p bacon]

Will do,

 

But, if it's full, how do I empty it, please? 

 

 

Tick the box of those you don't want and delete them.

 

In a bit more detail. 

 

Click the envelope icon at the top of the page and it will say 'All messages' 

 

You should have a list of all the messages sent to you.

 

On the right hand side there is a 'check box' if you tick that against the ones you don't want and head to the bottom there is an instruction box with 'delete'  Click that.

Edited July 1, 2018 by chris p bacon

[Clearwater]

1991 was the year of the Johnston/Agnew “he couldn’t quite get his leg over” gaffe on Botham’s ungainly dismissal. Test was at the Oval and Botham’s recall I think.

 

David

[Tony Wright]

Tick the box of those you don't want and delete them.

 

In a bit more detail. 

 

Click the envelope icon at the top of the page and it will say 'All messages' 

 

You should have a list of all the messages sent to you.

 

On the right hand side there is a 'check box' if you tick that against the ones you don't want and head to the bottom there is an instruction box with 'delete'  Click that.

Thanks Dave,

 

But, to my amazement (and even more to the rest of humanity), I worked it out - all by myself! 

 

The in-box now has 10% future capacity.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Tony Wright]

1991 was the year of the Johnston/Agnew “he couldn’t quite get his leg over” gaffe on Botham’s ungainly dismissal. Test was at the Oval and Botham’s recall I think.

 

David

Thanks David,

 

I wish I could remember who said ' Tom Graveney has just clipped the bowler's ball to the boundary'. He didn't stipulate which, but it must have been painful!

 

Regards,

 

Tony.