Wright writes.....

[Barry Ten]

The main issue that I have encountered with even the best performing RTR chassis is too much slop. As a result there is a massive amount of throw over on curves at both the buffer and cab end of the loco, the valve gear is easily broken. The life time of the locomotive must be shortened by the extra wear as they generally wobble down the line like a jelly.

 

If you like valve gear on your locomotives, then this is esthetically the weakest point on RTR chassis. Very few have valve gear that is of the same quality of the body moulding. I have always found it odd that valve gear lags so far behind such features as backhead detail, yet it is excepted without a seconds thought. Very simple basics such as general proportions seem to be stuck back in the 1980s. Putting more emphasis on backhead detail over better valve gear seems to me a classic example of cart before horse.

 

I haven't (yet) had a valve gear failure (although I've had mangled valve gear in a fresh-out-of-the-box model, but that's a quality control issue) but my models probably don't get anything like the mileage yours do, I'm guessing. I don't know enough about Eastern Region prototypes to have an opinion, but Bachmann's LMS and BR valve gear looks "right" to me (but perhaps I'm easily pleased). I can see why Hornby's valve gear is regarded as too weedy, although I think I'll take that over the grossly over-scale jobs we used to get in the tender-drive era.

[Mark C]

Tony

 

I'm eagerly awaiting your (RM?) write-up of the J6 - or have I missed it?!!  I bought the last one of the first batch based on this thread which was enough to persuade SEF to make more...!

 

Many thanks

Mark

[Headstock]

I haven't (yet) had a valve gear failure (although I've had mangled valve gear in a fresh-out-of-the-box model, but that's a quality control issue) but my models probably don't get anything like the mileage yours do, I'm guessing. I don't know enough about Eastern Region prototypes to have an opinion, but Bachmann's LMS and BR valve gear looks "right" to me (but perhaps I'm easily pleased). I can see why Hornby's valve gear is regarded as too weedy, although I think I'll take that over the grossly over-scale jobs we used to get in the tender-drive era.

 

 Bachmann have got the valve spindle guide arangement completly wrong on the Royal Scot and the Patriot.

 

Edited to add Patriot.

Edited September 19, 2018 by Headstock

[micklner]

I haven't (yet) had a valve gear failure (although I've had mangled valve gear in a fresh-out-of-the-box model, but that's a quality control issue) but my models probably don't get anything like the mileage yours do, I'm guessing. I don't know enough about Eastern Region prototypes to have an opinion, but Bachmann's LMS and BR valve gear looks "right" to me (but perhaps I'm easily pleased). I can see why Hornby's valve gear is regarded as too weedy, although I think I'll take that over the grossly over-scale jobs we used to get in the tender-drive era.

 

I have a Heljan O2/3 the valve gear is so poorly designed that the slightest pressure on the Expansion link caused it to fall off (it was held on by a rivet) .

 

Hornby Pacific valve gear I never have a problem with. The reason many fail is because the owner handles the Loco badly picking it up on the sides and squeezing the valve gear inwards as it is lifted. As a result when run the rods hit the pistons and becomes wrecked.  Treat Hornby valve gear with care and no problems, It should however be made with thicker metal to give it more strength.

 

Bachmann Valvegear, awful expansion link on the latest V2 far too large.

 

     I have a number of problems with their return cranks when converting A2's to Thompson Pacifics. A very poor casting which relies on two tiny pins to lock the crank to the crankpin. Slightest fitting out of line results in the pins snapping off and the crank spinning round the crankpin when run .  Bachmann only sell the cranks with all of the A2 valvegear attached at £20 a time , so take care !!

[Headstock]

The main thing that I have noticed with RTR return cranks is that they are usually facing in the wrong direction, I'm sure this makes the loco wobble more. The last one I adjusted for a friend, I ditched the horrible hexagonal nut and soldered the return crank onto the end of the crank pin. It looked a heck of a lot better and so did the nut when chucked in the bin.

Edited September 19, 2018 by Headstock

[Lecorbusier]

Hopefully an interesting question for you LNER bods.

 

Does anyone know on those famous eat coast line runs how many gallons to the mile the big locos consumed. It would be really interesting to know what the effective range a full tender of water gave you.

 

edit - found this on Tornado which I assume would be comparable?

 

 

Tornado’s tender has been redesigned internally eliminating the water scoop and increasing the water capacity from 5000 gallons (22,700 litres) to around 6,200 gallons (28,150 litres) and reducing coal capacity from 9 tons to 7.5 tons.
The range of a steam locomotive is governed by water capacity, lubricant consumption and fuel capacity. Water is the most significant limitation with most locomotives hauling loaded trains at express speeds being limited to about 100 miles (160 km) between fillings of the tender. For the A1 class an average of 40-45 gallons (113-137 litres) per mile is to be expected. Thus the standard 5000 gallons (22,700 litres) capacity of the tender will give about 100 miles (160 km) allowing 500 gallons (2,270 litres) in reserve.

Edited September 20, 2018 by Lecorbusier

[Captain Kernow]

Other than a couple of obvious dogs which were returned to the shop and swapped for good runners, I haven't come across an obviously badly performing RTR steam loco since the two main manufacturers upped their games around 18 - 20 years ago - Bachmann with the Blue Riband range (late 90s?), and Hornby with everything since the Merchant Navies (2000 onward, I think). By which I mean that they'll run smoothly and quietly

That's interesting, Al, but it's not my experience, especially when it comes to Bachmann steam outline locos. In my experience, I've found it to be about a 50/50 chance that the loco will run smoothly and without tight spots, although one or two have improved with running in.

 

In cases where I have bought two examples of the same loco, one for me and one on behalf of a friend, I've found one example runs indifferently and the other runs well. Needless to say, it is the latter, better runner, that gets passed on to the person on who's behalf I bought it.

 

Fortunately, my Bachmann 64XX, which is to be converted to a 74XX, has improved with running in. The jury is still 'out' on the 4F and 3F locos.

 

But I do know that (with time, blood, sweat, tears and inventive language) I can get an etched chassis kit, a Mashima motor and a High Level gearbox to do what I want, so the temptation is very much to go down that route, rather than potentially wasting the equivalent modelling time trying to get the RTR chassis to perform.

 

When I say that these RTR chassis don't run well, by the way, I'm not talking about running at scale speeds of (say) 30 mph and above, because at such speeds, the 'imperfections' are evened out and the problem is less noticeable, if at all. But any loco would probably be breaking speed limits to get to a scale 30 mph on any of my layouts!

[LNER4479]

Hopefully an interesting question for you LNER bods.

 

Does anyone know on those famous eat coast line runs how many gallons to the mile the big locos consumed. It would be really interesting to know what the effective range a full tender of water gave you.

 

edit - found this on Tornado which I assume would be comparable?

Good question, which I can comment on, hopefully reasonably knowledgeably...

 

100 miles between water stops for Tornado is about spot on. On the Top Gear race special, which I was fortunate enough to be on, water stops were at Grantham (105 miles), York (189 miles), Tyne Yard, where more coal was also taken on (approx 266 miles) and a final 'splash n dash' top up at Berwick loop (not sure of mileage) - that latter was a real grand prix pit stop, I think we were stationary for 6 mins, just long enough for the 'Aberdonian' HST to get past us!

 

Over on the West Coast, the mileage between stops has to be less, particularly on the northern sections due to the greater effort required for hill climbing; however the loco can still do Preston-Carlisle (90 miles) on one fill.

 

A good indicator back in the day was the spacing of the water troughs which were every 30-40 miles generally speaking. A complete fill could never be guaranteed so crew would bank on 2000-2500 gallons per dip. The logistics behind 4472's famous 1968 non-stop run all hinged on this. Apparently, half (ie every other) set of troughs had been taken out of use by that time (those left still being retained to fill diesel tanks for steam heating boilers). 4472 did of course have two tenders but critically only a seven coach train which greatly reduced water consumption.

[Captain Kernow]

The top line of rivets show the problem well, as it appears you can still see the backing sheet through the paint.

Possibly a tad unfair, though, as this is magnified beyond normal visual circumstances and perhaps the way the light is glancing off the surface accentuates that?

 

 

This is the undercoat and the image was taken to highlight the rivets and the film for Tom Foster a couple of years back. Once the topcoat is on, the film disappears see below

 

DCFCBCC4-8DBC-45EE-9D99-D6AED7E74D11.jpeg

I agree and this has been my own experience, when using Archers rivets, especially when weathering is applied over the final top coat.

[Mallard60022]

May I intrude for a moment and ask the following please? I ask here as I know there are many who recognise LNER stock, with ease.

Posted Today, 14:46

 

It is the stock I'm intrigued with; second and third coach. I reckon it's an LNER Artic pair. Any thoughts?

Halwill Junction from the detail; shown to me by a friend some time ago.

I think the 4th and 5th are Bulleids and the lead coach a BR GUV? Can't see the one behind the T Pole.

Thank you.

Phil

Edited September 20, 2018 by Mallard60022

[jwealleans]

I reckon you're right, Phil - the wheel count and bogie placement look right.  Domed roof at the near end, so vestibuled stock and clearly steel sided.  I don't have a diagram book with me in the office, but there were a few diagrams built in the later 1930s which might fit the bill.   Someone will be along soon and tell you.

[Headstock]

Afternoon Phil,

I'm also a long way from my diagram books but I would also say a gangway twin with four compartment brake probably third/third or second/second if you prefer. The rest of the stock is also Gresley, next to the twin and in Crimson and cream, an end door and a compartment door carriage, one is probably a composite. An unidentified maroon Gresley on the end, it could even be another twin.

[31A]

I think it's one of these:

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/54704-31a-c-w/page-2

[ROY@34F]

Hopefully an interesting question for you LNER bods.

 

Does anyone know on those famous eat coast line runs how many gallons to the mile the big locos consumed. It would be really interesting to know what the effective range a full tender of water gave you.

 

edit - found this on Tornado which I assume would be comparable?

 

I'd say the Tornado calculations are about right . In my days firing we would always top up over water troughs on the main line , even on goods , so long as the tender was scoop fitted . Saved you putting the bag in anyway and climbing about on tenders . You wouldn't risk running out of water . that could mean chucking the fire out . Hard work is that ! So how far we'd got left of water rarely became an issue . Things were done more on experience , certain diagrams / water top ups at certain places .

Of course these days there are no water facilities , so the preservation boys have to apply a bit of clever calculations to avoid trouble .

 

Regards , Roy .

[Niels]

Raven and Gressley Pacifics were tested on same hard duty.

City of Newcastle used 59 lbs coal and 40 gallon of water per mile and Flying Scotchman used 53lbs and 38 gallons.

Edited September 20, 2018 by Niels

[Mallard60022]

Afternoon Phil,

 

I'm also a long way from my diagram books but I would also say a gangway twin with four compartment brake probably third/third or second/second if you prefer. The rest of the stock is also Gresley, next to the twin and in Crimson and cream, an end door and a compartment door carriage, one is probably a composite. An unidentified maroon Gresley on the end, it could even be another twin.

Oh that's great info. Thanks for that ID; I would never have got those. It also ties in with some info elsewhere about Gresleys/ER stock coming down from the Midlands. I suspect it is/was some sort of excursion/extra from wherever that came to Exeter St Davids and then went off to North Cornwall to some resort. This is the only time I have seen a train in this area with an artic in it. Other Gresleys and later, Thompsons were redeployed to the west in the early 60s and that is quite well known, however this train is a fascinating working.

Many thanks all,

Phil 

[Mallard60022]

I think it's one of these:

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/54704-31a-c-w/page-2

I wonder if I might recreate this working away in the future by 'borrowing 31A's lovely builds?

Apologies for OT posts but this might be fun.

Phil

Edited September 20, 2018 by Mallard60022

[31A]

I wonder if I might recreate this working away in the future by 'borrowing 31A's lovely builds?

Phil

 

I'm sure that could be arranged Phil, as long as you don't want me to build the rest of the train!  I have already got a BR GUV ...

[Headstock]

Oh that's great info. Thanks for that ID; I would never have got those. It also ties in with some info elsewhere about Gresleys/ER stock coming down from the Midlands. I suspect it is/was some sort of excursion/extra from wherever that came to Exeter St Davids and then went off to North Cornwall to some resort. This is the only time I have seen a train in this area with an artic in it. Other Gresleys and later, Thompsons were redeployed to the west in the early 60s and that is quite well known, however this train is a fascinating working.

Many thanks all,

Phil 

 

Evening Phil,

 

I couldn't tell you why that particular set is were it is or exactly were it came from, However, it's interesting that you mention ER stock coming down from the midlands. Leicester had a couple of gangway twin sets that operated between Leicester and Manchester. They would have become redundant in later years as an attempt was made to axe as many passenger services as possible from the London extension. Originally they were formed twin-CK-twin, though they were often Strengthened by other gangway stock..

 

The original composites were built especially to run with the twins. However, I don't think that they were entirely successful, being short carriages they were perhaps a little cramped or lacked capacity at peak periods. They ended up often working with other composites away from the twins. Standard length Gresley and later Thompson composites replaced them in the sets, often strengthened with a third or two. Eventually the twin sets were broken up and reformed with a single twin in each set running with standard gangway stock. The photo probably shows something of this nature, though it was still possible to see two twins working with standard stock on occasion.

[jwealleans]

It's a recurring theme of this thread that there are no new kits being produced. Here's one which bucks that trend.

 

 

 

Palbrick B by Ian MacDonald (Macgeordie in these parts).

 

What a joy of a kit to build. I've admired his creations for a while but not had any use for one before now. Being honest, I don't really have a use for this, but I have a weakness for Palbricks and I wanted an etched wagon for my display at Hartlepool Show. I'm sure I can find a layout to run it on.

 

I can't recommend it highly enough as a kit - outstanding instructions on CD with multiple pictures, parts which fit where they're supposed to, spares on the etch for the ones you're likely to mess up..... they should all be like this. It was a real buzz to get the soldering iron back in my hand again.

 

I also had another contribution from our correspondent in Little Bytham from 1938. No exotica this time, just a common or garden K2 heading north with a short down freight.

 

[TrevorP1]

Oh that's great info. Thanks for that ID; I would never have got those. It also ties in with some info elsewhere about Gresleys/ER stock coming down from the Midlands. I suspect it is/was some sort of excursion/extra from wherever that came to Exeter St Davids and then went off to North Cornwall to some resort. This is the only time I have seen a train in this area with an artic in it. Other Gresleys and later, Thompsons were redeployed to the west in the early 60s and that is quite well known, however this train is a fascinating working.

Many thanks all,

Phil 

 

 

I've seen odd photos of Gresley stock used on trains in the west country where, in theory, they shouldn't have been (I don't mean inter-regionals). Can anyone suggest where I might find more information on this?

[45568]

Tourist Stock Brake 2nd/2nd articulated??

Cheers from Oz,

Peter C.

[jwealleans]

Tourist stock didn't have the domed roof.

[31A]

Tourist stock didn't have the domed roof.

 

Or compartments with individual doors!

[Darryl Tooley]

Or twin-art brakes. Harris (1994) p97 has a photo of d194/5 from almost the same angle, which tends to confirm the ID already made.

 

D