Wright writes.....

[TheSignalEngineer]

3 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said:

I think the LNER produced a small batch of a fitted version for their own use at the same time.

Yes, They had changed to corrugated steel ends when the change to steel underframes was made, but the problems of getting materials during the war led to a reversion to planked ends with a ventilator hood. This lot had LNER clasp brakes. There is a picture in Tatlow's 'A Pictorial Record of LNER Wagons' (Plate 69)

[jwealleans]

9 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said:

Bachmann has done the LNER version RTR.

 

Bachmann body and Parkside underframe, Bob's your uncle.

 

 

 

[Dunsignalling]

11 minutes ago, jwealleans said:

 

Bachmann body and Parkside underframe, Bob's your uncle.

 

 

 

Yes, I've one in my current production batch, with added BR AVB....

 

John

[TheSignalEngineer]

I picked up a damaged kit built LNER one in a job lot, 5 for a tenner, all with metal wheels so got my money's worth. So far I have resurrected a SR LWB 8-plank, and an LNER rivetted 16T Mineral and there was a complete 7-plank just missing couplings. The brake gear on the LNER van is partly missing so I thought I would give it some BR brake rigging in the manner of a BR conversion from the LMS unfitted version.

[Dunsignalling]

My LNER one was an absolute pig to assemble square, and very time-consuming, requiring much filing and fiddling. I could see exactly why the kit had been discontinued, and I'd just finished it when Bachmann released theirs!!!!

 

The one I'm doing in ex-LMS form, from a kit picked up for three quid at a swap-meet (the wheels are worth that so no risk) has gone together without difficulty, suggesting it is considerably older than the first one I tackled. 

 

John

[MJI]

Oh no a Bachmann 45xx fell into my Ebay basket and it was only a fiver less than my first one and that was new.

 

My own will be BRised and then just one more I think.

 

 

[Headstock]

2 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

I think the LNER produced a small batch of a fitted version for their own use at the same time. The wooden ends were a reversion to an older diagram and the old (discontinued) Parkside kit PC05 and Bachmann has done the LNER version RTR.

 

John

 

 

I can't believe that Parkside have discontinued PC05, really stupid decision from my point of view, is this a Peco thing? The Parkside model had the wooden underframe, the Bachmann model is a late van with steel underframe. The Parkside kit could also make a great conversion into the unfitted 9' w b van, with the 10'  wooden vac fitted chassis, being repurposed under a Cambrian 9' w b unfitted 6 plank open. Unfitted stock is rare enough in Model railway land, another opportunity to produce them is lost, sad.

 

1 hour ago, Dunsignalling said:

My LNER one was an absolute pig to assemble square, and very time-consuming, requiring much filing and fiddling. I could see exactly why the kit had been discontinued, and I'd just finished it when Bachmann released theirs!!!!

 

The one I'm doing in ex-LMS form, from a kit picked up for three quid at a swap-meet (the wheels are worth that so no risk) has gone together without difficulty, suggesting it is considerably older than the first one I tackled. 

 

John

 

I've never had a problem with the kit myself, it literally falls together. This is one of many I have built, repurposed as a 9' w b unfitted van.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 3, 2022 by Headstock
add info

[Barry Ten]

My first modelling project of the year... 

 

 

Actually a bit of a cheat since it's been on and off the workbench for a good fifteen years, but I think I've finally completed it bar small details like windscreen wipers and perhaps a driver.

 

It's a 42-year old Lima Western, reworked with the Brassmasters detailing kit, Ultrascale wheels, a new CD motor replacing the old pancake, and new pickups, followed by a respray of the original Desert Sand which had become tatty over the years.

 

The model was mostly finished and running a few years ago, but there were a few minor niggles and I still needed to cut off the old Lima brake gear and add the Brassmasters etched replacements. The latter was a daunting job that I kept putting off, partly because it looked tedious and fiddly, but also because I didn't like the way the Brassmasters parts were designed to fit onto the existing bogie keeper plate. There isn't much clearance under the bogies and I already needed some of that room for my improvised pickups. Over Christmas, nonetheless, I bodged-up a solution, and it all came together reasonably painlessly. I did one pair of brakes at a time, testing thoroughly before proceeding to the next, so it took several days to do both bogies, but worth taking time over.

 

The CD motor replaces the guts of the Lima mechanism but all the gears remain as before, so the good old Lima growl is still present, but the model now starts and stops at a crawl and will happily plod round very slowly. You might think adhesion would be an issue, with just two driven axles and no traction tires, but it's (to me) surprisingly adequate.

 

Al

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Dunsignalling]

51 minutes ago, Headstock said:

 

I can't believe that Parkside have discontinued PC05, really stupid decision from my point of view, is this a Peco thing? The Parkside model had the wooden underframe, the Bachmann model is a late van with steel underframe. The Parkside kit could also make a great conversion into the unfitted 9' w b van, with the 10'  wooden vac fitted chassis, being repurposed under a Cambrian 9' w b unfitted 6 plank open. Unfitted stock is rare enough in Model railway land, another opportunity to produce them is lost, sad.

 

 

I've never had a problem with the kit myself, it literally falls together. This is one of many I have built, repurposed as a 9' w b unfitted van.

 

 

 

 

Quite a few years ago I asked the late Richard Hollingsworth if he intended to reintroduce PC05, but he said it was quite a way down the list of priorities. At least one of  the other LNER vans did get re-done, and reissued with an 'A' suffix.

 

PC05 had therefore gone long before Peco came onto the scene. He also said it had been dropped because the moulds were worn out and the last runs of them were coming out with increasingly distorted edges. I think he binned most of the final batch.

 

Neither of mine came direct from Parkside as they had already long been withdrawn when I decided I wanted one and my first-built clearly came from the deteriorating moulds. The second was evidently older and gave no trouble at all, as presumably were all the ones you have encountered.

 

Believe me, my first didn't qualify as "falling together" on any level! You wouldn't guess to look at the finished model, though, and I was quite proud at how well I managed to salvage it. 

 

The kits do still crop up fairly regularly at shows and swap-meets, just be warned that they aren't all equal. I tend not to pay more than the value of the wheels just in case! 

 

John

 

PS. If you do want any more steel-underframe fitted ones, Bachmann made a very nice job of their r-t-r version and the moulding has a bit more finesse about it than the kit. Only to be expected with newer-tech injection moulding at a rather higher pressure. That probably put paid to any chance of the kit coming back, though.

Edited January 3, 2022 by Dunsignalling

[Headstock]

26 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said:

 

Quite a few years ago I asked the late Richard Hollingsworth if he intended to reintroduce PC05, but he said it was quite a way down the list of priorities.

 

It therefore went long before Peco came onto the scene. He also said it had been dropped because the moulds were worn out and the last runs of them were coming out with increasingly distorted edges. I think he recalled as many of the final batch as he could locate.

 

Neither of mine came direct from Parkside as they had already long been withdrawn when I decided I wanted one and my first-built clearly came from the deteriorating moulds. The second was evidently older and gave no trouble at all, as presumably were all the ones you have encountered.

 

Believe me, my first didn't qualify as "falling together" on any level! You wouldn't guess to look at the finished model, though, and I was quite proud at how well I managed to salvage it. 

 

John

 

I've never bought directly from Peco, there website is not very user friendly.

 

Perhaps they would consider producing the wooden underframe as a separate kit*, I won't be holding my breath. A new  kit of an unfitted LNER van would be a great little model. Its a shame that Unfitted vans and opens are not very popular with modelers, even though they should be up the top of the wish lists.

 

*The Parkside LNER vac brake underframe kit is only available as the steel version.

Edited January 3, 2022 by Headstock
clarify a point

[Dunsignalling]

28 minutes ago, Headstock said:

 

I've never bought directly from Peco, there website is not very user friendly.

 

Perhaps they would consider producing the wooden underframe as a separate kit*, I won't be holding my breath. A new  kit of an unfitted LNER van would be a great little model. Its a shame that Unfitted vans and opens are not very popular with modelers, even though they should be up the top of the wish lists.

 

*The Parkside LNER vac brake underframe kit is only available as the steel version.

They do two  wooden underframe LNER vans nowadays PC61 timber body with the little inspection hatches in the ends and PC62 Fruit van. PC61 is widely cross-kitted with the Cambrian 6-plank to produce a 9' unfitted van and a 10' fitted open. Hardly any fiddling to combine the parts, either!

 

As you say, though, the Parkside wooden underframe hasn't been made available separately, which is a bit odd. But that was also the case before Peco took over.

 

For Plastic wagon kits, wheels, buffers, etc. by post, try www.hamodels.net 

They carry all the well known ranges and were always one of my first ports-of-call when shows were still a thing.

 

John

Edited January 3, 2022 by Dunsignalling

[micklner]

Re Peco

 

I would'nt hold your breath. I asked them to sell the LNER Conflat mouldings as a seperate wagon , they sell them with the LNER DX Container (which is very rare in actual use).

Yes no problem, the price was hardly any cheaper than with the container , I did'nt bother. !!

[Dunsignalling]

22 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said:

They do two  wooden underframe LNER vans nowadays PC61 timber body with the little inspection hatches in the ends and PC62 Fruit van. PC61 is widely cross-kitted with the Cambrian 6-plank to produce a 9' unfitted van and a 10' fitted open. Hardly any fiddling to combine the parts, either!

 

As you say, though, the Parkside wooden underframe hasn't been made available separately, which is a bit odd. But that was also the case before Peco took over.

 

For Plastic wagon kits, wheels, buffers, etc. by post, try www.hamodels.net 

They carry all the well known ranges and were always one of my first ports-of-call when shows were still a thing.

 

John

Updated after I found all the missing info.

 

John

[Headstock]

35 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said:

They do two  wooden underframe LNER vans nowadays PC61 timber body with the little inspection hatches in the ends and PC62 Fruit van. PC61 is widely cross-kitted with the Cambrian 6-plank to produce a 9' unfitted van and a 10' fitted open. Hardly any fiddling to combine the parts, either!

 

As you say, though, the Parkside wooden underframe hasn't been made available separately, which is a bit odd. But that was also the case before Peco took over.

 

For Plastic wagon kits, wheels, buffers, etc. by post, try www.hamodels.net 

They carry all the well known ranges and were always one of my first ports-of-call when shows were still a thing.

 

John

 

Thanks for the info, I find searching the Peco site difficult unless you have the codes to hand. PC61 will make me eternally happy, well, at least until the end of my model railway building career.

 

Out of interest, do you know of a decent 4 mm GWR Y8 fruit van? I was thinking of chopping the sides off the old 'whatever' RTR models and attaching them to the Ratio kit.

 

 

Edited January 3, 2022 by Headstock
glitch in forum lost half of post, re added.

[Headstock]

24 minutes ago, micklner said:

Re Peco

 

I would'nt hold your breath. I asked them to sell the LNER Conflat mouldings as a seperate wagon , they sell them with the LNER DX Container (which is very rare in actual use).

Yes no problem, the price was hardly any cheaper than with the container , I did'nt bother. !!

 

Evening Mick,

 

what I know about DX containers as pertaining to the general conversation on such matters. I've seen photographs of them with straw laid over something and also others with some sort of aggregate inside. Non of the real things were ever painted blue by the LNER.

[micklner]

10 minutes ago, Headstock said:

 

Evening Mick,

 

what I know about DX containers as pertaining to the general conversation on such matters. I've seen photographs of them with straw laid over something and also others with some sort of aggregate inside. Non of the real things were ever painted blue by the LNER.

What colour please ? They look Blue in Tatlow !!

[Brian D]

21 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

More progress on the DJH Raven A2..............

 

 

Handrails and vacuum ejector pipe. 

 

Like most NER (and GWR) locos, the main horizontal handrails carried on over the smokebox door in a continuous curve. As anyone who has to make the feature knows, it is an absolute fag! 

 

Normally, I do the whole thing in one go, but the nature of the smokebox door (which includes the front ring, to which a central top pillar is attached) means that technique is impossible (at least as far as I'm concerned). 

 

 

So, I split the process into three operations - the two main horizontal handrails, then that curved front. A dictionary of profanity is as useful as the soldering iron! I represented the little gadget on this side of smokebox adjacent to the handrail with an old-fashioned 'football' handrail pillar. 

 

Not too much now, before she's off to Geoff Haynes for painting.

 

Then.................

 

 

 

Dear Mr Wright,

 

Oh dear (or words to that effect).  My DJH D20 kit build is currently stalled while I pluck up the courage to fabricate the continuous boiler handrail.  To learn that a builder of your vast experience finds this fabrication a faff turns my legs to jelly.  At the moment I'm just positioning the hand rail knobs each side utilising a straight piece of hand rail - see below.

 

 

The bending of a suitable one piece hand rail now fills me with dread but.......hey ho, nothing ventured as they say.

 

Regards,

Brian.

[Headstock]

55 minutes ago, micklner said:

What colour please ? They look Blue in Tatlow !!

 

Evening Mick, 

 

Tatlow is in black and white and any info referring to blue is incorrect. They were red oxide like most other containers and then a colour called bauxite during the War. The blue was introduced by the LNER in conjunction with a door to door furniture removal service introduced by the big four. LMS containers were painted maroon, GWR brown and SR green. However, only a limited number of containers branded for the new service received the special liveries, many, though rebranded, retained the standard LMS bauxite (brown) LNER red oxide, GWR grey and SR dark brown. All other containers, excepting specials*, were painted in the normal goods liveries of the big four.

 

As a point of interest, you can tell the ones painted blue for the service from those painted red oxide in a B&W image. The Z branding is backwards on the blue containers.

 

* insulated for example.

Edited January 3, 2022 by Headstock
clarify a point

[micklner]

1 hour ago, Headstock said:

 

Evening Mick, 

 

Tatlow is in black and white and any info referring to blue is incorrect. They were red oxide like most other containers and then a colour called bauxite during the War. The blue was introduced by the LNER in conjunction with a door to door furniture removal service introduced by the big four. LMS containers were painted maroon, GWR brown and SR green. However, only a limited number of containers branded for the new service received the special liveries, many, though rebranded, retained the standard LMS bauxite (brown) LNER red oxide, GWR grey and SR dark brown. All other containers, excepting specials*, were painted in the normal goods liveries of the big four.

 

As a point of interest, you can tell the ones painted blue for the service from those painted red oxide in a B&W image. The Z branding is backwards on the blue containers.

 

* insulated for example.

Andrew,

             Tatlow mentions early  LNER A&B Containers were  in Red Oxide I have seen on e colour photo of a Oxide Container. He states remainder in Dark Blue from 1934. Insulated versions were White.

 

What is your source please?. Looking at the Tatlow photos, they look the same colours/shades as he states to me.

 

Type A,  repainted Unit Models LMS versions (not perfect, but there is nothing else available) and a Parkside DX both on Parkside Conflat s wagons.

 

 

 

 

[Tony Wright]

1 hour ago, Brian D said:

 

Dear Mr Wright,

 

Oh dear (or words to that effect).  My DJH D20 kit build is currently stalled while I pluck up the courage to fabricate the continuous boiler handrail.  To learn that a builder of your vast experience finds this fabrication a faff turns my legs to jelly.  At the moment I'm just positioning the hand rail knobs each side utilising a straight piece of hand rail - see below.

 

 

The bending of a suitable one piece hand rail now fills me with dread but.......hey ho, nothing ventured as they say.

 

Regards,

Brian.

No need to call me Mr Wright, Brian,

 

Tony is just fine.

 

I don't know how many hundreds of locos I've built with that curved handrail over the smokebox door, but it's a lot! Just about all GWR locos have it. It's the same with regard to NE locos, GC locos GE locos, several Scottish classes and more modern types such as B17s B1s and K1s. Though it's scant consolation, I still find it a right fag to form. However, through trial and error (usually more of the latter), then I get it to work.

 

As I mentioned with the Raven A2, because the smokebox door and the front ring of the smokebox are one piece, my usual practice of forming the curve before fitting the smokebox door was not possible. 

 

No matter, it was formed as a separate piece..............

 

 

You can see how I've joined it to the first handrail pillar with solder (might I suggest you try this method?). 

 

The bodywork is all but complete here.

 

Mention has been of possible clearance issues with regard to the cylinders and leading steps.........

 

 

I set the cylinders in more than was designed, and they cleared Bytham's platforms. 

 

Clearance behind the steps is very tight, so much so that I omitted the motion support bracket (it's not being there is not too noticeable and the slidebars are substantial enough). 

 

EM modellers might have to do some serious thinking if they build this loco, because it's usual to set potential problem items slightly further out to give clearance. 

 

Best of luck with the D20. Please keep on showing us progress. It looks very neat work indeed. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

[Headstock]

15 minutes ago, micklner said:

Andrew,

             Tatlow mentions early  LNER A&B Containers were  in Red Oxide I have seen on e colour photo of a Oxide Container. He states remainder in Dark Blue from 1934. Insulated versions were White.

 

What is your source please?. Looking at the Tatlow photos, they look the same colours/shades as he states to me.

 

Type A,  repainted Unit Models LMS versions (not perfect, but there is nothing else available) and a Parkside DX both on Parkside Conflat s wagons.

 

 

 

 

 

Good evening Mick,

 

a friend of mine called John Marsh, before the Covid crisis, carried out a reappraisal of the LNER container fleet, mainly because he was dissatisfied with the small range of mainly BR containers available. He gained access to the original traffic committee reports and the big four shin digs, referring to the introduction of the Furniture removal service. He also went through the repainting dates for every LNER diagram of container that also recorded the livery details. Finally, he was able to ascertain that some original information in the public domain was more in the nature of a guesstimate, as the access to all records was not available at the time.

Edited January 3, 2022 by Headstock

[micklner]

1 minute ago, Headstock said:

 

Good evening Mick,

 

a friend of mine called John Marsh, before the Covid crisis, carried out a reappraisal of the LNER container fleet, mainly because he was dissatisfied with the small range of mainly BR containers available. He gained access to the original traffic committee reports and the big four shin digs, referring to the introduction of the Furniture removal service. He also went through the repainting dates for every LNER diagram of container that also recorded the livery details. Finally, he was able to abstain that some original information in the public domain was more in the nature of a guesstimate, as the access to all records was not available at the time.

Very interesting , is that information in the public domain . It would be good if the information was made available to all. What is needed are some kits or r.t.r to be made avaible as well.

[Tony Wright]

 

 

Apart from some small detail bits, the DJH Raven A2 is now complete and all but ready to go off to Geoff Haynes for painting. 

 

 

Certainly an interesting build, and, though I know this is subjective, one of the least-elegant big locos I've ever seen. Along with the first Gresley A1s, this year marks the centenary of this unsuccessful class (the first LNER-built locos to be withdrawn).

 

Compared with its contemporary, the Gresley A1, it's really old-fashioned, even with a big tender.

 

I'm basing it on the final appearance of 2400 (Fig. 200 in the RCTS Part 2A), with windjabber taken off the chimney, screw reverse, and Westinghouse equipment removed. I can't tell if the piston tail rods have been removed by 1936. Does anyone know, please?

 

 

 

Edited January 3, 2022 by Tony Wright
typo error

[Headstock]

36 minutes ago, micklner said:

Very interesting , is that information in the public domain . It would be good if the information was made available to all. What is needed are some kits or r.t.r to be made avaible as well.

 

Evening Mick,

 

there are reams of this stuff in the likes of the NRM. The problem is that most of it is not catalogued and it costs lots of money to pay people to catalogue it. The museum is reliant on volunteers to do the work, they are not numerous and it isn't a full time occupation for them.  I would have thought that Covid has stopped all this, I haven't been able to use the reading room since 2019.

 

The material is in the public domain, in the sense that you can join the search engine, request documents that have been catalogued and spend a day in the reading room trawling through the documentation. You are allowed to make notes and photograph documents and drawings. The uncatalogued stuff is not in the public domain, few people, if anybody, knows what it is. The file on the Hush Hush was lost and forgotten for over sixty years, a document that re writes the chapter in the green book.  

Edited January 3, 2022 by Headstock
clarify a point

[Dunsignalling]

6 hours ago, jwealleans said:

 

Bachmann body and Parkside underframe, Bob's your uncle.

 

 

 

Bachmann body and Bachmann 4-shoe AVB underframe for ex-LMS as updated by BR and they have an extra wagon in the range with zero new-tooling costs...

 

John