Wright writes.....

[t-b-g]

11 hours ago, john new said:

 

Others will have better knowledge of C20th Yorkshire coal working than me, although previous generations in the family worked it. My prime knowledge is related to Nottinghamshire and the Elizabethan/Stuart (Huntingdon Beaumont) era.

 

A thought as to why there is coal in wagons before the 1912 stated full opening and the colliery was still being sunk/developed. Once the straight down bits of the shaft was completed there would have to be side branches to link with the opposite one for arranging the mine ventilation air flow etc., using the upcast and downcast shafts. Equally minor seams would be breached on the way down to the target level, that coal had to come up and out, it was a saleable resource so why waste it? 
 

Annoyingly I have read recently, and now can't find the actual reference work, the answer to why some Yorkshire pits were named xxxx Main Colliery and some weren't; those that were so designated were all working/targeting the same, main, seam. IIRC that was the Barnsley Seam, a seam of substantial depth and an extremely good coal once extracted.
 

 

The information I saw suggested that the first coal was brought to the surface in 1912 and in the photo, it does look as if one shaft is complete and may be operational, so perhaps that is the date of the photo.

 

Another possibility that occured to me was that by that time, much of the construction work would have involved steam powered machinery and before the mine started to produce its own coal, supplies would need to be brought in from elsewhere.

 

In truth, all this sort of stuff is probably insignificant and of no great consequence but I do enjoy looking at the details of older photos and trying to pin down a date and a story as to what was happeneing at the time.

 

My search for information was for a layout that I no longer have and I was mainly intrigued by the idea of possibly being able to run a dumb buffered wagon lettered for a colliery that didn't produce coal until 1912, on a layout set near the colliery in that year.

 

Now that I no longer have the layout, finding an answer to that question has declined in importance!

[Tony Wright]

1 hour ago, Dunsignalling said:

I'm currently attempting (with some difficulty/frustration) to convincingly attach one of those to a dummy floor so I can return the wagon empty....

 

I have recently acquired some thinner "rope" which should result in its completion early in the New Year, and maybe even the construction of one with a Field Marshall on it, too.

 

John

Good afternoon John,

 

Nearly three years ago (doesn't time fly?), good friend Ray Chessum loaded this pair of tractors for me..........

 

 

I think the one on the right is a Field Marshall. I built the one on the left (forgotten what it is), which Ray painted.

 

I think the conclusion was that ropes were generally used to secure tractors, then someone found a picture with tractor parts secured with chains! 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

[Dunsignalling]

2 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Good afternoon John,

 

Nearly three years ago (doesn't time fly?), good friend Ray Chessum loaded this pair of tractors for me..........

 

 

I think the one on the right is a Field Marshall. I built the one on the left (forgotten what it is), which Ray painted.

 

I think the conclusion was that ropes were generally used to secure tractors, then someone found a picture with tractor parts secured with chains! 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

A late acquaintance who used to unload them reckoned rope was more usual, and certainly more popular with him. Use of chains meant having to patch up paintwork on the axles....

 

John

[jwealleans]

1 hour ago, Clive Mortimore said:

that is a BR dia 1/001 with dropsides and ends. The LMS Lowfit had fixed sides and ends.

 

You're right of course, Clive.   This is the picture I should have posted:

 

 

I'm not sure you should call it an 'LMS Lowfit', though - they weren't fitted until the LMS had ceased to exist.

 

 

Edited December 30, 2021 by jwealleans

[Tony Wright]

As the year draws to its conclusion.

 

I've now painted all the frames/motion on the two most-recent locos I've completed. in readiness for Geoff Haynes to paint them.

 

 

Both are built from DJH/Model Loco kits (the A3 has a K's tender).

 

Just two and a half weeks ago, good mates Rob Kinsey and Mick Peabody popped over from the West Midlands for a day's layout running. 

 

I'd started this DJH 9F for Mick, but he didn't want it any more.................

 

 

 

So, I'll complete it. Here it is running on test (with a borrowed tender). Already, without any ballast, it took this long rake with ease.

 

The goods rake is probably a muddle; I just made it up from what was around. 

 

I'd planned to give the DJH Raven A2 its first test run yesterday, but shopping intervened..........

 

 

No matter, here she is this morning, easily taking this heavy ten-car Pullman set, even without ballast. 

 

I'd done a bit more on her since the last photo. Having first built an example of this kit in the last century, I'd forgotten how much of a fight it was to get the whole cab right (or near right). 

 

Final December pictures tomorrow.....................

 

 

[APOLLO]

6 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

The goods rake is probably a muddle; I just made it up from what was around. 

 

Isn't that what the real railways did ? - Always seemed like it to me !!

 

Brit15

[Clive Mortimore]

7 minutes ago, jwealleans said:

 

You're right of course, Clive.   This is the picture I should have posted:

 

 

I'm not sure you should call it an 'LMS Lowfit', though - they weren't fitted until the LMS had ceased to exist.

 

 

You are correct Jonathan, they were just Lows before BR added the second set of brakes and the vacuum cylinder. As Red Leader's model has four shoe Morton brake gear I assumed it was a Lowfit not a Low.

 

Lovely model wagons by the way.

[Barry Ten]

I hope Tony's readers won't mind a slightly eclectic round-up of 2021 modelling activities.

 

I started the year with a significant bereavement so my modelling was deliberately low-stress, mostly just weathering and renumbering of RTR products. But, very satisfying nonetheless as I don't really feel an attachment to models until I've messed about with them.

 

 

An example (above) is this Bachmann Jinty which was given a Bath identity.

 

There couldn't be more of a contrast with this next model. It's a resin model of the spaceship from the 1966 film "Thunderbirds are Go", with much modification and scratchbuilding to adapt the very basic Japanese kit into something closer to the "prototype".

 

 

In the early summer I built two S&D six-wheeled carriages. I've got two more of these to do, then another four bogie carriages. However, progress has stalled due to the difficulty of finding suitable transfers, the current-production HMRS ones being useless.

 

 

 

 

Thanks to Jerry Clifford, who provided me with some older PC and HMRS sheets (much better quality) I was at least able to get one of the carriages finished:

 

 

Much of the better weather in spring and summer was spent working on this 1/8th scale radio control P51, which has gradually progressed to the point where it's ready to fly:

 

 

I also put in a lot of hours at my local RC flying club (the South Wales Radio Control Society) and was pleased to earn my "A certificate" in basic fixed-wing flying early in the autumn. I did this on a high-wing trainer which is likely to be a lot more forgiving than the P51.

 

As seen on Little Bytham (thanks Tony and Mo, for your hospitality), my only major loco project of the year was the tarting-up of this old Hornby Spamcan, using the Crownline parts.

 

 

I also did a bit of detailing and repainting on this N scale Southern Railway pacific:

 

 

The very "British" painting and lining style isn't accidental. Harriman, the director of the Southern, visited the UK in the 1920s. Upon his return, the directive went out that the Southern's prestige locos were to be treated to fully-lined Virginia green, which just happens to anticipate Malachite by about a decade.

 

In the latter half of the year I also worked on a couple of 1/48 aircraft kits, namely a Hawker Hunter and an F86 Sabre Dog:

 

 

 

And as we round-off the year, it's back to model trains for my last major project, which is adding interior lights and detailing to a N scale roundhouse.

 

 

Thanks all for the great modelling and inspiration throughout the year.

 

best wishes,

 

Al

 

 

 

 

 

 

[DenysW]

Tony -

 

A nit-pickers question, so I apologise in advance. The Midland Railway thread, whilst commenting that 3-way points are beyond just challenging to scratch-build, asserts the Board of Trade wouldn't allow them on passenger lines (the recently posted hump-shunting footage shows them on MR/LMS/BR goods at Toton). You have a set at Little Byford, with the middle track a short dead-end spur to a platform. Is that from the original? A quick trawl (I'm certain you've done better) didn't dig up any pictures of 'real' Little Bytham from the correct viewpoint, but many of your scaled clone, so I've failed so far to answer my own question.

 

Denys

[Compound2632]

8 minutes ago, DenysW said:

You have a set at Little Byford, with the middle track a short dead-end spur to a platform. Is that from the original?

 

It's not on a passenger running line. 

[Headstock]

52 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Good afternoon John,

 

Nearly three years ago (doesn't time fly?), good friend Ray Chessum loaded this pair of tractors for me..........

 

 

I think the one on the right is a Field Marshall. I built the one on the left (forgotten what it is), which Ray painted.

 

I think the conclusion was that ropes were generally used to secure tractors, then someone found a picture with tractor parts secured with chains! 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

 

Good afternoon Tony,

 

I once had a tractor on a 3 plank, it was roped over the buffers like yours but I had a bit of a bus on a bridge moment and replaced it with a cement mixer.

[Andy Hayter]

2 hours ago, t-b-g said:

 

The information I saw suggested that the first coal was brought to the surface in 1912 and in the photo, it does look as if one shaft is complete and may be operational, so perhaps that is the date of the photo.

 

Another possibility that occured to me was that by that time, much of the construction work would have involved steam powered machinery and before the mine started to produce its own coal, supplies would need to be brought in from elsewhere.

 

In truth, all this sort of stuff is probably insignificant and of no great consequence but I do enjoy looking at the details of older photos and trying to pin down a date and a story as to what was happeneing at the time.

 

My search for information was for a layout that I no longer have and I was mainly intrigued by the idea of possibly being able to run a dumb buffered wagon lettered for a colliery that didn't produce coal until 1912, on a layout set near the colliery in that year.

 

Now that I no longer have the layout, finding an answer to that question has declined in importance!

 

Maltby was owned by the conglomerate Sheepbridge Iron and Coal co. Ltd.  

The dumb buffered wagons may well have arisen from one of the other pits or ironstone mines that was being run down or shut.  A quick coat of paint and re-branding and there you have the anachronism in the picture.

[t-b-g]

Just now, Andy Hayter said:

 

Maltby was owned by the conglomerate Sheepbridge Iron and Coal co. Ltd.  

The dumb buffered wagons may well have arisen from one of the other pits or ironstone mines that was being run down or shut.  A quick coat of paint and re-branding and there you have the anachronism in the picture.

 

I was a bit surprised to see them at a colliery that was quite late onto the scene but there could be a number of reasons why they were there and your theory is as good as any. Due to being phased out, there may have been plenty being sold off at low prices too.

 

What was never established was whether they were for internal use only or if they ventured out onto the main line, which would make them very late for dumb buffered wagons.

 

As they were not built at Maltby, they must have got there somehow, so they almost certainly appeared on the main line on their journey to the colliery but I always fancied the idea of one appearing in a 1912 period coal train at Tickhill and Wadworth, which was what my layout was based on. As I said, it matters little now. The present owner of Tickhill and Wadworth models the BR late 1950s to early 1960s period like so many others, so it is no longer an issue.

[Northmoor]

1 hour ago, Barry Ten said:

 

It's like a 1/148th scale O. Winston-Link visited your depot.

[Headstock]

5 hours ago, micklner said:

See here

 

https://www.steve-banks.org/modelling/256-lner-cattle-wagon

 

He covers the Oxford version at the bottom of the article , he was very  OTT regarding its "failings" on here, and elsewhere at the time of release.

 

I agree re the Oxford effort , very easy to redo the mirror image side and a quick repaint . Compared to Bachmann's overpriced and very poor effort a total bargain, not perfect but nothing ever is !!.

 

Banana Vans soon from Oxford for about 1/2 the current price of Bachmanns Vans  cant be bad !!

 

Afternoon Mick,

 

there was a lot of fuss about its failings but you can't fault them on the BR version having probably never existed.

[65179]

15 hours ago, drmditch said:

 

Thank you. Can you describe how you achieved the 'bent' wagon please.

 

I have contemplated attempting a 9' wb Cattle Wagon sagging at the ends.

 

The wagon was actually a 'joint effort'. I researched it and provided the bits, and my brother built it! He said:

 

"I made up the wagon body and slit carefully down the edge of the doors using an Airwaves saw that fits on a scalpel handle. I bent the ends out as much as I wanted. The chassis was similarly  made up and then forcibly bent at the ends. I think I held it in some flat nosed pliers. The ends are the weakest part. I had to be a bit careful it didn't crumple by spreading the point at which I bent the ends." In the image above the door fixings have yet to be restored with plasticard strip.

 

Also bear in mind that this is a 2mm wagon with an etched nickel silver chassis. I'm sure I've seen a 4mm broken backed wagon either on here or on the LNER forum. Perhaps @jwealleans is aware if there has been one?

 

Regards,

Simon

[jwealleans]

34 minutes ago, 65179 said:

I'm sure I've seen a 4mm broken backed wagon either on here or on the LNER forum.

 

Doesn't ring a bell with me.  Western Thunder or one of the other forums I don't look at often/at all?

[ROY@34F]

6 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Good afternoon John,

 

Nearly three years ago (doesn't time fly?), good friend Ray Chessum loaded this pair of tractors for me..........

 

 

I think the one on the right is a Field Marshall. I built the one on the left (forgotten what it is), which Ray painted.

 

I think the conclusion was that ropes were generally used to secure tractors, then someone found a picture with tractor parts secured with chains! 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

Yes Tony , the right hand one is a Field Marshall , they had a one cylinder engine making a unique pop pop pop .... sound , and a large flywheel on one side .  The engine  was started by firing a cartridge of some sort into it .   The other tractor is a (new in the early '50s I believe ) Ford Major . I remember them well in my teens and used to drive the new Major , a diesel , very often on a farm .

 

Regards , Roy .

 

 

[robmcg]

Good evening Tony,

 

I greatly enjoy the esoterica to be found in your thread, and your intelligent and kind tolerance of the many different subjects covered, lately to do with goods train details, and always in support of good modelling.

 

In view of my limitations, a result of serioius injuries, I cannot do much more than box-opening but my 'modelling' as such is with my laptop and RTR models placed on a desk.

 

Thus I submit a picture I created some time ago and looked at it yesterday and thought, "I did that", which in a sense is my 'modelling'.

 

Hornby rebuilt Royal Scot 46103 'Royal Scots Fusilier' thundering by headed by Patricoft Black 5 44731 both in early 60s BR condition.

 

As ever, your thread is entertaining and instructive, full of wisdom and intelligence, please keep it going.

 

The photo below is perhaps best viewed full screen with a large dollop of suspension of disbelief. Aplogies for errors here and there, it is a rather extreme crop.

 

 

Best New Year wishes to all.

 

Robbie 

 

 

[stewartingram]

19 hours ago, LNER4479 said:

I'm all maxed out talking about wagons (for now) so decided to build one instead.

 

Something nice n straightforward...

 

... not too challenging.

 

About 2 hours work this evening to get to this point. Can you tell what approximate representation of a wagon type it is yet?

 

See it running at York, all being well. 

 

Another Fish wagon (for flatfish)?

[Tony Wright]

8 hours ago, DenysW said:

Tony -

 

A nit-pickers question, so I apologise in advance. The Midland Railway thread, whilst commenting that 3-way points are beyond just challenging to scratch-build, asserts the Board of Trade wouldn't allow them on passenger lines (the recently posted hump-shunting footage shows them on MR/LMS/BR goods at Toton). You have a set at Little Byford, with the middle track a short dead-end spur to a platform. Is that from the original? A quick trawl (I'm certain you've done better) didn't dig up any pictures of 'real' Little Bytham from the correct viewpoint, but many of your scaled clone, so I've failed so far to answer my own question.

 

Denys

Good evening Denys,

 

As Stephen Lea has commented, the three-way point on Little Bytham is not on a passenger running like. In fact, the centre road is effectively a trap point protecting two running lines. It finishes short of the signal box, not at a platform. 

 

 

This is a copy of the 1948 trackplan of Little Bytham. The three-way point can be seen in the centre. 

 

 

It's at the south end of the Up lay-by, which could only be accessed by reversing off either the Up fast or Up slow (the slow, judging by its shiny rails was used more; there were two leads off the Up slow, one further north). 

 

Here's a model close-up...........

 

 

Both roads change as a pair.

 

 

The centre road is never used, hence it's weathered on top.

 

 

Reading the roads from left to right these are limestone loading dock, Down north lay-by (only accessed by setting back), Down slow, Down fast, Up fast (which the 'Lizzie is on), Up lay-by (the road in question), Up slow, headshunt to the goods yard and roads to the loading dock. The respective Up fast and Up slow lines are separated by the Up lay-by. 

 

Any points giving access to a running line were worked by the 'box or were hand-operated, but which had to be unlocked by the 'box first. There were no facing points giving direct access to sidings off the running lines. 

 

This sort of thing is one of the reasons why I always advocate modelling an actual prototype.

 

I hope this helps.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 30, 2021 by Tony Wright
to add something

[Tony Wright]

One of the neatest locos I've sold this year................

 

 

A Nu-Cast K1 built/painted by Graham Varley. 

 

 

[micknich2003]

The so called "Threeway Point" is not so, it is a "Tandem", note the staggered switches, they are not in line.

[Tony Wright]

1 minute ago, micknich2003 said:

The so called "Threeway Point" is not so, it is a "Tandem", note the staggered switches, they are not in line.

Thanks Mick,

 

It's important to get the right nomenclature. I should have realised that.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Tony Wright]

Having enjoyed an almost perfect impromptu running session on Little Bytham this afternoon (the cock-ups were, of course, mine) with dear friends George Stephenson and Ian Wilson, I'll take some final pictures of 2021 tomorrow.