Wright writes.....

[Chamby]

1 hour ago, Tony Wright said:

A 9F at speed?

 

These do?

 

 

 

 

 

Presumably these are guest locomotives on LB?  I’ve been reviewing the former GC’s 9F’s recently and the tender types varied between regions:  I note that these are London Midland and Western region allocated locomotives respectively.  Eastern region allocated 9F’s typically had a BR1F tender with a higher water capacity.  I have gained the impression that over their short lifespan, 9F’s and their tenders didn’t transfer much between regions.

 

A browse through my reference books for the GCLE showed the majority of allocated 9F’s to be single chimney variants with the BR1F tender.  There is a photographic record of other variants, notably Western region 9F’s, working through to Annesley from Swindon, though even a Crosti visited for a while.  Evening Star apparently was ‘borrowed’ over a weekend by Woodford when she arrived with a train from Swindon one Friday afternoon in 1964, and given a spin up to Annesley on a ‘runner’.  She was regarded as a celebrity loco even then.

[APOLLO]

1 hour ago, Tony Wright said:

A 9F at speed?

 

These do?

 

 

 

 

 

Nice. That 4W van is marked XP (Express Passenger) - were they actually allowed express passenger speeds (>100mph) ?

 

Brit15

Edited October 18, 2022 by APOLLO
typo

[Compound2632]

2 minutes ago, APOLLO said:

express passenger speeds (>100mph) ?

 

!

[Roger Sunderland]

A question, if I may please, to the helpful, and very knowledgeable ,people on this site.

What size were the cab side numerals on 9Fs? We’re they 8” or 10”? And did they differ between LM locos and ER locos.

Many thanks in anticipation.

[Dunsignalling]

22 minutes ago, APOLLO said:

 

Nice. That 4W van is marked XP (Express Passenger) - were they actually allowed express passenger speeds (>100mph) ?

 

Brit15

I think the "official" limit for 10' wb vehicles with XP rating was 60mph.

 

At least for a time, longer ones had a higher limit AIUI.

 

John 

[The Fatadder]

Interesting points on 3d printing and coaches, As mentioned elsewhere on the forum I am in the middle of designing my second coach to 3d print (in the form of the 31ft GW breakdown train mess/tool vans.  if the old etched kits from Blacksmith / Geen were available I would have gone down that route instead, however for designing myself an etched kit is somewhat more complicated to design (and a lot more expensive).   

 

Like others have said it does take a lot of effort to clean up the parts and get them into a state where I am happy with it, rather compounded by having to work around the details such as the rain strips on the roof.  (I've just finished preparing one of my O5 siphon roofs which is now ready for painting).   While my current drawing for the mess/tool vans includes things like the roof vents, its much more likely all of this will be removed to be replaced by off the shelf castings.  For the windows on these vans I have attempted to mitigate the window issue adding cut in sections on the rear to thin down the area that is being glazed.    For things like plank gaps, its possible to get pretty close to an etch or plastic in the level of detail (particularly on a flat part). its long smooth parts with curves (like a coach tumblehome) where it gets a lot more tricky (something I have no intention to waste my time with at the moment).

The mess van has a flat smooth finish, so will be interested to see just how well this does print later in the month, (the drawing includes bits in yellow / blue which would be fitted with brass / white metal parts)

 

As for the lifespan of the resins used, I wonder if this is something where there is a difference between the different types of resin available.  But at least with the uv cured resins in use with home printers (of the Proton  or Mars/Saturn type, if the model does fail after a few years at least you can just print yourself a new one and transfer the various etched / cast fittings over.

 

[micklner]

12 hours ago, PupCam said:

 

Looks like part of the motion with oil corks?   A big end with a coupling rod behind maybe?    

 

Given the apparent variety of locomotives, it seems very strange unless Thompson's "Standard parts" policy started much earlier than we thought ..... 🤔

My suspicions exactly . Why would 0-6-0 Locos have such a set up.

[Chas Levin]

1 hour ago, t-b-g said:

...Apparently most of the resins that are being used to create 3D printed models are ones intended to make prototype models for testing purposes or as masters for casting. They do not have a long life and will very likely decay and crumble before too long. You can get long life resins but the cost for something like a carriage would be horrible.

 

I don't know if that is right or wrong but it came from a usually reliable source. I am sure we have experts on here who will either confirm it or say that it is wrong...

 

That's the thing that worries me about this medium more than anything else: longevity. 

 

Extra time and effort in building or finishing I can cope with - I can even convince myself it adds to the enjoyment (!) - but if the model starts to crumble before I do... 🙄

[Ray Flintoft]

1 hour ago, Roger Sunderland said:

A question, if I may please, to the helpful, and very knowledgeable ,people on this site.

What size were the cab side numerals on 9Fs? We’re they 8” or 10”? And did they differ between LM locos and ER locos.

Many thanks in anticipation.

Hi Roger,

      Generally, the 9.Fs  had the smaller cab side numbers However, a number of the class received heavy repairs at Darlington & these came out with the 10" numbers. The " Book of the 9.F 2-10-0s" is probably the best source for those which visited Darlington for heavy repair.

               Hope this helps,

                                   Ray.

[Roger Sunderland]

Much appreciated Ray. I thought I’d seen some 9Fs with larger numbers. I remember now it was in a book I’ve got on Darlington works.

[30368]

18 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Moving footage of my latest Pro-Scale A4. 

 

The A4 looks really wonderful and capable of matching it's protoype in terms of pulling power.

 

I was intrigued to note the blue pullovered photographer taking a picture or two as she passed through. I bet he was pleased and very surprised to have caught this A4 in its experimental gold leaf livery.

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

 

PS I have one to build too, I will try to match your high quality efforts!

 

[polybear]

3 hours ago, t-b-g said:

I was chatting with a friend yesterday, who knows a highly experienced and skilled engineer in the 3D printing industry. Apparently most of the resins that are being used to create 3D printed models are ones intended to make prototype models for testing purposes or as masters for casting. They do not have a long life and will very likely decay and crumble before too long. You can get long life resins but the cost for something like a carriage would be horrible.

 

I don't know if that is right or wrong but it came from a usually reliable source. I am sure we have experts on here who will either confirm it or say that it is wrong.

 

 

Apparently exposure to UV light (daylight/sunlight) can cause over-curing of the resin over time and make it more brittle; I'd guess that when not in use such a model etc. would benefit from being stored out of the light (box, cupboard etc.) and not left sitting in a fiddle yard etc.  I wonder if certain types of layout lighting are "worse" for emitting UV and can add to the problem?

p.s.  What I know about 3-d printing is about on par with my knowledge of designing advanced fast nuclear reactors....

 

One question for @Tony Wright if I may?  Tony, I recall you mentioning your preference for 0.45 NS wire for pickups, along with Mercontrol PTFE tubing to insulate the pickups as required; can you tell me what the o.d. of the sleeving is please?  In addition, do you think that you could post a few photos of various pickup configurations please - I know you've done so in the past but the change of RMWeb server a while back wreaked havoc and lost many pictures - I wonder if they can ever be recovered?

[Tony Wright]

3 hours ago, APOLLO said:

 

Nice. That 4W van is marked XP (Express Passenger) - were they actually allowed express passenger speeds (>100mph) ?

 

Brit15

I have no idea.

 

The wagon in question is the work of the late Dave Shakespeare (a dear friend of mine) and I bought it from his estate to have something of his work running on LB. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Tony Wright]

5 hours ago, grob1234 said:

 

I shall be following this one with interest, Tony.

 

I looked at these at the GETS and was quite impressed, especially with the range of products on offer, and apparent ease of construction. Looks like the roof could use a light sanding?

 

I assume you'll replace the undersides with brass...?

Not in brass Tom,

 

Apart from in part.

 

 

I've used the 3D-printed floor pan, but substituted the resin trussing for MJT's white metal equivalents (any trussing I've had which has been made of plastic or resin usually comes back from a show in pieces!). 

 

'V'-hangers are etched brass from Comet (none is provided in the kit), as are the cast metal brake cylinders and the dynamo. The battery boxes and the vacuum cylinders are as-supplied, 3D-printed. 

 

It'll ride on white metal HD bogies.

 

This mentioning of (heavy) white metal often causes alarm among those whose locos are shy of pulling really heavy trains. I like such use; it gets the centre of gravity as low as can be (which aides riding stability) and it's far more robust that plastic/resin.

 

Regards,

 

Tony.  

 

 

[Tony Wright]

4 hours ago, t-b-g said:

I have yet to be convinced by any 3D printed carriages that I have seen. I bought some a while ago and when they arrived, I thought they were no better, in fact worse, than Kirk kits of several decades ago. Thick sides, heavy detail and panelling, none of the "crispness" of a good etched or plastic injection moulded kit and the dreaded print lines. I spent a few hours trying to get one panel on one carriage nice and smooth without damaging the beading and I gave up. We ended up commissioning Worsley Works to do some etches for the carriages we wanted.

 

If the RTR folk produced carriages with windows set so far back from the side, they would get slated and rightly so. Yet on 3D printed carriages, windows stuck behind thick sides seem to generally accepted.

 

Of course it all depends on whether you want a vehicle that will stand a bit of close up scrutiny or something to be viewed from 4ft away going at 90mph.

 

I was chatting with a friend yesterday, who knows a highly experienced and skilled engineer in the 3D printing industry. Apparently most of the resins that are being used to create 3D printed models are ones intended to make prototype models for testing purposes or as masters for casting. They do not have a long life and will very likely decay and crumble before too long. You can get long life resins but the cost for something like a carriage would be horrible.

 

I don't know if that is right or wrong but it came from a usually reliable source. I am sure we have experts on here who will either confirm it or say that it is wrong.

 

Good afternoon Tony,

 

I cannot comment with any expertise on the longevity of 3D-printed resins, but so far, after over four years, the first of the vehicles I made in this medium are showing no sign of deterioration. Now, that's only four/five years; what about after ten, or 20 years? Who knows.

 

I agree about the 'battleship' thick sides, but the FO I'm making has a rebate behind the window reveals, with laser-cut glazing cut to size provided. Meaning it should look quite flush-glazed when completed. 

 

3D-printing is not my first material of choice (it breaks far too easily in my clumsy mitts), but where I think it has potential is for the young/inexperienced modellers. The kits I've made (this is the eighth) are an absolute doddle to put together. In fact, 'kit' is often the wrong description, because whole bodies can come as one piece, including the roof!

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[thegreenhowards]

34 minutes ago, polybear said:

 

Apparently exposure to UV light (daylight/sunlight) can cause over-curing of the resin over time and make it more brittle; I'd guess that when not in use such a model etc. would benefit from being stored out of the light (box, cupboard etc.) and not left sitting in a fiddle yard etc.  I wonder if certain types of layout lighting are "worse" for emitting UV and can add to the problem?

Surely once painted, the resin is well protected from UV light?

[Tony Wright]

4 hours ago, Chamby said:

 

Presumably these are guest locomotives on LB?  I’ve been reviewing the former GC’s 9F’s recently and the tender types varied between regions:  I note that these are London Midland and Western region allocated locomotives respectively.  Eastern region allocated 9F’s typically had a BR1F tender with a higher water capacity.  I have gained the impression that over their short lifespan, 9F’s and their tenders didn’t transfer much between regions.

 

A browse through my reference books for the GCLE showed the majority of allocated 9F’s to be single chimney variants with the BR1F tender.  There is a photographic record of other variants, notably Western region 9F’s, working through to Annesley from Swindon, though even a Crosti visited for a while.  Evening Star apparently was ‘borrowed’ over a weekend by Woodford when she arrived with a train from Swindon one Friday afternoon in 1964, and given a spin up to Annesley on a ‘runner’.  She was regarded as a celebrity loco even then.

They are guests Phil,

 

And certainly won't be staying on LB, despite their excellence; I've had them for review in BRM (next issue). 

 

The BR 1F tender was the one most commonly seen behind ER-allocated 9Fs (the most impressive Standard tender in my view), though some 9Fs operating on the ex-GC had the MR-style tender as well. 

 

Here's a DJH 9F I built, towing a 1F tender.

 

 

I painted it as well, and Geoff Haynes weathered it.

 

DJH has used it in the firm's latest advert, adding smoke as well. 

 

Speaking of 9F models.........

 

 

This is the finest one I've ever seen; Tony Geary's work in O Gauge.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Tony Wright]

47 minutes ago, polybear said:

 

Apparently exposure to UV light (daylight/sunlight) can cause over-curing of the resin over time and make it more brittle; I'd guess that when not in use such a model etc. would benefit from being stored out of the light (box, cupboard etc.) and not left sitting in a fiddle yard etc.  I wonder if certain types of layout lighting are "worse" for emitting UV and can add to the problem?

p.s.  What I know about 3-d printing is about on par with my knowledge of designing advanced fast nuclear reactors....

 

One question for @Tony Wright if I may?  Tony, I recall you mentioning your preference for 0.45 NS wire for pickups, along with Mercontrol PTFE tubing to insulate the pickups as required; can you tell me what the o.d. of the sleeving is please?  In addition, do you think that you could post a few photos of various pickup configurations please - I know you've done so in the past but the change of RMWeb server a while back wreaked havoc and lost many pictures - I wonder if they can ever be recovered?

Good afternoon Brian,

 

As requested, here's a selection of the type of pick-ups I employ...........

 

 

 

 

 

Not all are sleeved - just those where too close proximity to chassis detail is involved.

 

The internal tubing diameter just slides over .45mm wire. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

[Tony Wright]

4 hours ago, Roger Sunderland said:

A question, if I may please, to the helpful, and very knowledgeable ,people on this site.

What size were the cab side numerals on 9Fs? We’re they 8” or 10”? And did they differ between LM locos and ER locos.

Many thanks in anticipation.

Good afternoon Roger,

 

As far as I'm aware, only those 9Fs shopped at Darlington had the larger cabside number; like this............

 

 

I built it from a Model Loco kit, and Geoff Haynes painted/weathered it. 

 

So far in my looking, I've only found ER-allocated 9Fs with large numbers (and the large tenders).

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

[Roger Sunderland]

Thanks Tony, that confirms my thinking.

[The Fatadder]

2 hours ago, polybear said:

Apparently exposure to UV light (daylight/sunlight) can cause over-curing of the resin over time and make it more brittle

That certainly makes me think about where I store my resin parts, given I usually have a bunch of buffers, battery boxes etc sat in a box at one end of the work bench that were surplus when I ran a print and are now awaiting use when required.   Will get them all moved somewhere dark!

[Jol Wilkinson]

7 hours ago, The Fatadder said:

Interesting points on 3d printing and coaches, As mentioned elsewhere on the forum I am in the middle of designing my second coach to 3d print (in the form of the 31ft GW breakdown train mess/tool vans.  if the old etched kits from Blacksmith / Geen were available I would have gone down that route instead, however for designing myself an etched kit is somewhat more complicated to design (and a lot more expensive).   

 

Like others have said it does take a lot of effort to clean up the parts and get them into a state where I am happy with it, rather compounded by having to work around the details such as the rain strips on the roof.  (I've just finished preparing one of my O5 siphon roofs which is now ready for painting).   While my current drawing for the mess/tool vans includes things like the roof vents, its much more likely all of this will be removed to be replaced by off the shelf castings.  For the windows on these vans I have attempted to mitigate the window issue adding cut in sections on the rear to thin down the area that is being glazed.    For things like plank gaps, its possible to get pretty close to an etch or plastic in the level of detail (particularly on a flat part). its long smooth parts with curves (like a coach tumblehome) where it gets a lot more tricky (something I have no intention to waste my time with at the moment).

The mess van has a flat smooth finish, so will be interested to see just how well this does print later in the month, (the drawing includes bits in yellow / blue which would be fitted with brass / white metal parts)

 

As for the lifespan of the resins used, I wonder if this is something where there is a difference between the different types of resin available.  But at least with the uv cured resins in use with home printers (of the Proton  or Mars/Saturn type, if the model does fail after a few years at least you can just print yourself a new one and transfer the various etched / cast fittings over.

 

I've struggled to get the hang of 3D CAD but found CorelDraw 2D easy to use. Designing for etches isn't, in my view, difficult. The ability to copy and paste multiple items is also a great time saver.

 

I have bought wagons 3D printed using the SLA process which have been excellent. I also have a 3D wagon from Shapeways that is frankly appalling. The only 3D printed carriages I have seen aren't very good and need a lot of finishing, something which isn't practical with panelled coaches.

 

One area where 3D printing is worth considering is to produce patterns for resin cast items such as complex boiler shapes. However, to get the right quality is expensive. The 3D printed pattern for one small saddle tank boiler unit for a recently introduced kit cost £300 

[Tony Wright]

The Isinglass RFO is now finished (construction-wise).............

 

 

As with any locos I build, thorough layout testing is conducted before any painting/glazing/detailing is completed. 

 

It fits in well as part of this catering trio, along with an RK (Hornby/MJT) and an RTO (RSO by now - Kemilway). 

 

It'll go off to Geoff Haynes for painting soon.

 

Though this whole train is more than capable of bowling by at high speed, I think the RFO will stand up to static photography as well. 

Edited October 19, 2022 by Tony Wright
to add something

[Willie Whizz]

On 15/10/2022 at 16:01, 2750Papyrus said:

FS visited the Keighley and Worth Valley some years ago and was open to the public to view (so I've cabbed it!).  Our guide had completed the York University master's degree and had investigated the build history of the loco for his dissertation.  I can't remember all the detail, but she has 2750's driving wheels whilst part of the cab sheets was deemed original.

Back in the mid-90s in my past life as a  bank manager  piano-player in a House of Ill Repute, I had to visit a business Customer in North Wales, and stopped off at the Llangollen Railway on the way back. 
 

It was a quiet day, there wasn’t a soul about, and as I wandered down a line of out-of-use locomotives I was very surprised to see Flying Scotsman there, sandwiched between several other engines and looking very forlorn indeed. I looked about me - still nobody about - did I dare take the rare opportunity and ‘cab’ her?

 Then I saw a little plate at the top of the cab steps: “This asset is the property of Lombard North Central Finance Limited”. That clinched it - LNC was a subsidiary company of my own employer; so I would actually have the excuse of checking their ‘asset’ was being looked-after! So up I climbed and had a pleasant few minutes fantasising …

 

A happy little memory. But I think those were dark days for the engine. 

[Willie Whizz]

On 17/10/2022 at 20:10, Dunsignalling said:

The 9F speeds of 80-90 mph were real enough and common enough for BR to issue a notice forbidding the practice. 

 

Even at seventy, the underpinnings of a 9F would be rotating at speeds comparable with a large wheeled Pacific doing 100mph, and some WR examples were rostered to passenger duties that made that speed necessary to keep time.

 

John

Ditto on the Eastern’s GCLE. As a very small boy, one of my earliest memories is of hearing on my Grandparents’ wireless set (BBC Home Service of course!) about the consternationation the practice was causing to BR Management and their decision to ban it. 
 

(Grandma had no TV, and some others of my earliest memories from the same source around this time were the death of Mike Hawthorn the racing driver, and the first transatlantic jet airliner service provided by the DH Comet IV).