Wright writes.....

[Tony Wright]

5 hours ago, LNER4479 said:

Morning Tony, et al

 

Talking of budget modelling, may I be permitted to post these?

 

From these ...

 

... to this.

 

Full step-by-step story posted just now in the Shap thread but basically, I've 'done a Clive'. A cut n shut exercise using various donor vehicles that were either genuinely surplus or acquired cheaply and I chose to recycle to create something a bit different (LMS PdII Dia. 1720 BCK in original condition). Plan is to have it fully finished in time for the Manchester show.

Great stuff Graham,

 

Many thanks for posting. 

 

Why do you need my permission?

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Tony Wright]

4 hours ago, gr.king said:

Thanks Tony, you'll be glad to know that massive front coupling has already been removed for a year or more, and not before time.

 

All this debate over the K's J3 has finally distracted me from planned activity to the extent of using my digital calliper to re-check various boiler dimensions for several of my models. These should all represent Doncaster designs with the same nominal 4' 8" diameter boiler (over the actual pressure vessel) plus presumably the same amount of lagging and clothing plates. It might be reasonable to assume similarity of smokebox diameters too.

 

My resin J6 and J2 models, from home made masters made to match Isinglass drawings (and conclusions drawn from published dimensions) measure about 20.3mm over the clothed barrel, ~22mm smokebox dia.

My Hornby, ex-Dapol, ex-Mainline N2 has 20.5mm colthed barrel dia, 22.1mm smokebox.

A (Premier Kits?) D2 I have, which I didn't build, 20.6 clothed barrel dia, 22 to 20.2 slightly oval smokebox.

 

Which brings me to my K's J3, which my modern measuring device now tells me is anywhere between 19.5 and 20.5 over the clothed boiler, which is oval and not parallel. The smokebox is about 21.7 horizontal diameter, possibly less than 21 vertically.

Two decades or so ago, when I built the poor thing, I evidently either did not notice the ovality of the boiler until it was too late to correct, or I did not have / apply the necessary time, skill and force to sort it out without damage. Either way, the boiler clothing would appear to average 20mm diameter, which is not so seriously under-size as I had once thought. The biggest error therefore lies in the pitch of the boiler, maybe 1mm or more too low, which you have made efforts to correct in your latest budget build.

 

On the matter of the tender, although the K's kit represents the final batch of locos that were built and later reboilered to become J3, the sandbox positions (plus Ivatt cab and shallow running plate angle iron) confirming this, it might be the case that one or more of these locos even in final large-boiler form ran for a period paired with one of Stirling's old wood framed tenders with concealed springs. If a suitable photo can be found to confirm such a pairing, then for anybody who is bothered by the massive Class B tender in the kit, who doesn't want to tackle an LRM etched tender, and who has access to any old Kitmaster remnants, the old plastic kit for the tender of the Stirling single can be hacked around and fitted with coal rails to produce a believable alternative tender...

Good afternoon Graham,

 

The boiler on my J3 was slightly oval, but not uniform; looking at the front of the smokebox, it stuck out a bit more to the right than the other side. A bit of hefty filing helped cure this (at least in part).

 

I think you're right about the boiler's height being a little low. I think I've set it right, however.

 

 

The smokebox sat happily between the front sandboxes/splashers, but the firebox end leaned back. I set the top of the boiler to the horizontal, which meant this visible gap at the firebox's base. This was then filled with solder, both sides. Note how close the bottom edge of the spectacle is to the firebox cladding (prototypically so). 

 

This 'alteration' certainly makes this look much more like a J3 rather than a J4.

 

I have an old Stirling Single tender. I'll investigate............

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Edited October 27, 2022 by Tony Wright
to add something

[t-b-g]

Has anybody checked the size of the splashers on the Ks model?

 

They look too big to my eyes but I couldn't be sure without measuring.

 

On the real thing, there is a gap between the top of the splashers and the boiler cladding but on the model, they are almost touching.

 

It may be that the splashers are too wide from front to back, to hide OO Gauge wheels better, or it may be that they are too high, or it may just be my eyesight!

[rowanj]

Tony and others on RMWeb recently helped me put together an authentic rake for the Queen of Scots as running North of Leeds. Beyond Newcastle, it was a Haymarket turn, very often A3 hauled. I had a few parts lying around in various boxes, including a Hornby ex-tender drive body, a tender -drive tender body and a pair of broken-down motorised A3/4 chassis from the first of the run, So I suppose this is budget modelling, and has resulted in 60097, the one-off A3 with full-size smoke deflectors, Moulded handrails were replaced, tender body narrowed to fit a modern Hornby chassis, and a whistle, ashpan lever and lampirons fitted. Real coal came from the NYMR. Deflectors from Phoenix and nameplates from Fox were the only things bought for the job, because, of course, I don't count the  cash I spent/wasted on the original buys which finished up in the spares box.

Anyway, here is Humorist on the job I built her for, - budget modelling and evidence that a carved tender-drive A3 body can fit on the latest chassis, as someone asked a while ago.

Edited October 27, 2022 by rowanj

[dibateg]

This is where I can hold up my hands in horror ( A bit like the Viz modern parents ) in that Tony doesn't possess digital calipers! Mine are always within reach on the workbench...

 

Anyway - I might as well join in the theme of coach building - the latest on my workbench is a JLTRT Gresley full brake. Complete with 8 foot bogies..

 

Now, I'm pretty sure - and you can't see it in the picture, they are at the other end, but I don't think it should have the alarm gear fittings on the roof... People will know...

 

Regards

Tony

 

 

[Barry Ten]

I have to agree that digital callipers are very handy, one of those tools you wonder how you managed without. I got a pair quite cheaply at Lidl or similar a few years ago.

[jwealleans]

31 minutes ago, dibateg said:

I don't think it should have the alarm gear fittings on the roof.

 

You are correct.

 

See, for example, https://www.steve-banks.org/modelling/402-gresley-61-6-bg

[Jesse Sim]

5 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Great stuff Graham,

 

Many thanks for posting. 

 

Why do you need my permission?

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

We’ve been through this before, you’re scary! 

[Barry Ten]

 

Well it's not a J3, or a J4... or 5. 

 

The BR black J72 is a Bachmann one that was one of the first new models I bought on returning to the hobby. I couldn't believe how smooth and quiet a runner it was. Alas, at some point it developed the dreaded split axle syndrome, and although I ordered some spare muffs, I could never get it running as well as when originally bought. There was always a hint of a tight spot running forward (frustratingly absent in reverse - I could have lived with it otherwise). 

 

 

I saw that someone was selling a J72 body together with a pre-built Comet chassis with wheels (but no motor) on ebay. The cost was only a bit more than the wheels alone, so I thought it worth a punt. As it stood the chassis was a built a bit weirdly, with the centre bearings just loose on the axle, and rattling around in oversize frame holes. I don't know why that was thought a good idea but more by luck than judgement, I was able to solder them in properly, and after some tweaking the chassis ran well. 

 

Tonight I assembled a Branchlines motor and gearbox and dropped in some new pickups, using the original PCB pads put on the builder. Amazingly, it ran smoothly and reliably first time.

 

 

The plan is to use the original BR body on this, for old time's sake. The LNER one would be going spare so if anyone can use it, do let me know. 

 

best,

 

Al

 

 

 

[Woodcock29]

5 hours ago, t-b-g said:

Has anybody checked the size of the splashers on the Ks model?

 

They look too big to my eyes but I couldn't be sure without measuring.

 

On the real thing, there is a gap between the top of the splashers and the boiler cladding but on the model, they are almost touching.

 

It may be that the splashers are too wide from front to back, to hide OO Gauge wheels better, or it may be that they are too high, or it may just be my eyesight!

Tony

They are definitely too big. Across the footplate they're about 2 mm too big in diameter. This is the one aspect on my 'hybrid' that is significantly out of scale. But the overall impression that it is a J3 is still ok as the most important aspects look right to me.

 

Andrew

[Tony Wright]

With the latest Irwell 'Book of' in preparation (on the B1s), can anyone help with this, please?

 

Occasionally the London B1 had to be replaced, which brought one of Hull Dairycoates’ B1s, or even a K3, up to Kings Cross, hitherto unheard of. On one occasion the Hull B1 61060 was unable to return, and worked to Cambridge running-in after repair, no doubt causing consternation to the youth of the university town! 666 ran on the down slow out of London to avoid delaying the 20.20 Edinburgh with TPOs (mail), but 581 stopped only at Goole (as required) and New England. From there the B1 ran behind the Queen of Scots Pullman with its Copley Hill A1. The Pullman hardly ran like a streamliner, but many a night at New Southgate, the 'Train out of section' bell signal was met with the code for 581(1-3-1), often followed by 'Train on line'. The London men wanted to get home for a beer and supper! There were usually a couple of vans coupled behind the guard’s brake, I suspect to quieten the BRO’s riding at speed.

 

I'm stumped as to what a 'BRO' is.........

 

Thanks in anticipation.........

[65179]

10 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

With the latest Irwell 'Book of' in preparation (on the B1s), can anyone help with this, please?

 

Occasionally the London B1 had to be replaced, which brought one of Hull Dairycoates’ B1s, or even a K3, up to Kings Cross, hitherto unheard of. On one occasion the Hull B1 61060 was unable to return, and worked to Cambridge running-in after repair, no doubt causing consternation to the youth of the university town! 666 ran on the down slow out of London to avoid delaying the 20.20 Edinburgh with TPOs (mail), but 581 stopped only at Goole (as required) and New England. From there the B1 ran behind the Queen of Scots Pullman with its Copley Hill A1. The Pullman hardly ran like a streamliner, but many a night at New Southgate, the 'Train out of section' bell signal was met with the code for 581(1-3-1), often followed by 'Train on line'. The London men wanted to get home for a beer and supper! There were usually a couple of vans coupled behind the guard’s brake, I suspect to quieten the BRO’s riding at speed.

 

I'm stumped as to what a 'BRO' is.........

 

Thanks in anticipation.........

 

Brake van, probably an LMS one, as I think it's an LMS term.

 

Simon

[Tony Wright]

Yesterday, Richard Wilson (my erstwhile colleague at BRM) collected over a hundred locos and items of rolling stock from the home of Brian Lee, a one-time contributor to BRM. Sadly, Brian is now in a nursing home, having suffered a stroke, complicated by dementia. He'll never model again. In his more-lucid moments, it's his wish that his model railway items be sold on behalf of his wife and family, which Richard and I are undertaking. 

 

The collection is very mixed, and not all Brian's work. Some items are superb (a LT&SR 4-4-2T in full regalia, a DJH Ivatt 'Semi', an ex-L&Y railmotor, a twin-Portescap Beyer-Garratt and a Model Loco Stanier Five for instance) and some are 'products of their time'. By that, I mean he's been modelling for well over 60 years (his layout, 'Beeley' first appeared in the Model Railway Constructor in 1973!). Most depict LMS times (his first love) and are built in OO, but there are 'oddities' like an ex-GC 'Jersey Lilly' in LNER green, in EM. On first inspection, there are several gummed-up Portescaps (not the Garratt or the Semi). 

 

The plan this weekend is for Richard and me to go through every item, listing as accordingly. I'll check each loco over and see (if necessary) if I can get them going (many haven't run for years). I'll then list them on here (not today, or tomorrow, but before too long), stating asking prices. These will, obviously, vary. Where there are mechanical 'duds' (looking OK, but they don't work), these will be offered to those (at a lower price, of course) who have the skills to fix them, as has happened in the past. I'll get running those I can (those not requiring a mechanical rebuild), and we'll go from there.

 

Please don't express any interest yet, because I've only had the briefest of glances at the locos.

 

Please, watch this space. 

[Michael Edge]

GT85 spray will ungum the Portescaps very quickly.

[Tony Wright]

1 hour ago, Michael Edge said:

GT85 spray will ungum the Portescaps very quickly.

Thanks Mike,

 

Where does one acquire this GT85 spray from, please? 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Dunsignalling]

Google is your friend, but if you want to get it from a real shop, it's intended for lubricating bike chains.

 

John

[Michael Edge]

7 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Thanks Mike,

 

Where does one acquire this GT85 spray from, please? 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Most car spares places such as Halfords have it.

[Michael Edge]

4 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said:

Google is your friend, but if you want to get it from a real shop, it's intended for lubricating bike chains.

 

John

That's what I started using it for but then found it does all sorts of other things as well, doesn't have any bad effects on plastics.

[Dunsignalling]

17 minutes ago, Michael Edge said:

That's what I started using it for but then found it does all sorts of other things as well, doesn't have any bad effects on plastics.

Agreed, I discovered it a fair while ago and, despite not having a bike, am well into my second can. It's very good for all manner of jobs.

 

John

Edited October 29, 2022 by Dunsignalling

[LNER4479]

3 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

... over a hundred locos and items of rolling stock ... a DJH Ivatt 'Semi' ... Most depict LMS times ... are built in OO,

Oh crumbs ...

 

3 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Please don't express any interest yet, because I've only had the briefest of glances at the locos.

 

Please, watch this space. 

Standing by ...

[great central]

1 hour ago, Tony Wright said:

Thanks Mike,

 

Where does one acquire this GT85 spray from, please? 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

Wilkos, was £3 a can last time I bought some. Halfrauds likely 50% more at least.

[Tony Wright]

And, so the process begins.............

 

 

The ones at the front are definitely non-runners (no motors).

 

 

The ones to the right all have motors, so it's up to me now to check them!

 

Off I go now to start testing all these. Please, be patient................

 

The wagons/vans are all kit-built.

 

 

This is part of Brian Lee's RTR collection, which Richard Wilson will be taking to sell through his partner's model shop in Barrow. Locos and rolling stock in abundance!

 

 

I count myself to be immensely-privileged. How many wives/partners would tolerate their homes being filled with model trains?

 

Not only that, Mo does the books as well!

 

Reports and individual pictures to follow; eventually........

 

 

Edited October 29, 2022 by Tony Wright
tautology

[Tony Wright]

Did someone mention callipers? 

 

 

I don't think these are digital (other than being worked by my fingers) and I don't even know what 'Vernier' means. 

 

Useful, though, for plotting the handrail knobs' positions from the Isinglass drawing............

 

 

[MJI]

Saw this today

[micklner]

1 hour ago, Tony Wright said:

Did someone mention callipers? 

 

 

I don't think these are digital (other than being worked by my fingers) and I don't even know what 'Vernier' means. 

 

Useful, though, for plotting the handrail knobs' positions from the Isinglass drawing............

 

 

Have a look here

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Digital-Vernier-Caliper-Electronic-Micrometer/dp/B075H6M2CM/ref=asc_df_B075H6M2CM/?tag=googshopuk-21&linkCode=df0&hvadid=310844673072&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=269063337078324318&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9045003&hvtargid=pla-426316086950&psc=1

 

I use mine all the time, even things like measuring a dropped micro drill is easy to measure instead of guessing the size or using a hand operated micrometer . Goggle is your friend for all searches!!

 

Mine cost £5 from Aldi years ago ,and still work fine.

Edited October 29, 2022 by micklner