Wright writes.....

[MJI]

12 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

WCJS.

 

A. Pedant M Inst RC

Was not sure and yes i do have a ratio one painted up, not easy at all.

 

I tend to like light upper, dark lower schemes, carmine cream, blue grey, brown cream.

 

All over maroon, or green a little boring in comparison.

[MJI]

GWR stock, siphons in all over blue, and DW80975, also DW139 in blue grey.

 

 

[MJI]

2 hours ago, rodent279 said:

In fact when you think about it, steam ran on the mainline with blue & grey stock for longer than either carmine & cream or BR maroon. Starting in 1966 in dribs & drabs, from about 1968-9 most mainline steam would have had a rake of blue & grey stock in tow, until about 1986, the main exceptions being the GWS chocolate & cream heritage set, the SLOA umber & cream Pullmans, and the odd few locomotive support vehicles.

So for the thick end of 20 years, steam on the mainline with blue & grey stock was the norm.

Got carmine cream and maroon for the older stuff. But steam specials are getting a rake of mark1s in chocolate cream.

[t-b-g]

1 hour ago, APOLLO said:

 

There is a very interesting thread right here on rmweb devoted to that mini-era.

 

 Well worth a look.

 

Brit15

 

Thanks. Thinking back, it may have been a link on that thread that led to a photograph collection on Flickr that I saw.

 

If I ever got to the stage where my hands and eyes no longer work well enough to build things, I would still want a layout, OO and RTR based and on the grounds that modelling pre WW1 GCR/GNR/MR/LNWR is always likely to be difficult relying on RTR, I would very likely choose that period to work in. Things like 8Fs hauling MGR wagons and grotty Black 5s on rakes of blue/grey would at least be a bit out of the mainstream. I have never liked following the herd, so I usually look at what everybody else is doing and head somewhere else!  

[t-b-g]

1 hour ago, Keith Turbutt said:

.......  and then on the Southern Region at Vauxhall in March 1967 you could see this - Maroon, Blue Grey and Green !

 

The only BR steam loco I remember seeing in normal service is 34100 (formerly Appledore but lacking names when I saw it) at Winchester in 1967. I know I saw others as they are underlined in my trainspotting books but that is the only one that I remember when and where I saw a specific loco. I did see a colour photo one time that had those three colours plus a brown and cream Western Region carriage, which really was a full set. 

[robertcwp]

Here is a Hawksworth in blue/grey - albeit it had been in Departmental service:

 

Hawksworth-BG-blue-grey by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

[robertcwp]

Livery crossover eras are often not modelled, or so it seems from exhibition layouts. There are exceptions though.

 

I remember commenting to John Houlden that Gamston Bank (set in 1954) needed some LNER-liveried stock as there were still some around then - some teak or mock teak carriages made it all the way through the crimson and cream era without gaining the livery. 

 

Stoke Summit was good in that it depicted the crimson and cream to maroon transition, as does Retford. There are other examples too. The early BR years are a good period for mixed liveries, including the 1948 experimental ones.

 

DMUs were not always uniform:

DLW_4-10-67 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

 

53434_53507_N677_ManVic_29-10-88 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

 

Neither were Blue Pullmans:

Blue-Pull_down_Moreton_1-8-68 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr  

[APOLLO]

The weather being cold and wet all week, and myself having a snuffly cold I have been reading my bound volumes of "Modern Railways" magazines 1962 to 1975, bought years ago at a fiver a volume.

 

What I like about reading these is that the whole lot is a snapshot in time to back then, no historical articles like the other mags at the time, every issue is packed with what was actually happening (or proposed) during this very interesting time. Particularly of interest is the (usually) several pages per month headed "Motive Power Miscellany, devoted to traffic and locos in particular. Each region has a section and most useful at the end is "Motive Power Changes listing per region new locos, reallocated and withdrawn. September 1964 has 5 pages !!! (probably a short paragraph would suffice today).

 

A quick look on Google found this - well worth a look, and this is just the Calder valley area !!

 

http://www.hall-royd-junction.co.uk/Hall_Royd_Prototype/Trains_Illustrated_1960.html

 

A wonderful source of information for the modeler of this era such as this (off the web)

 

 

Lots more here

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/36844288@N00/with/49903898513/

 

When I read about what we had, and look out of my front window at what we have now (WCML Wigan) - is it any wonder what's up in my loft !!

 

Of course it was not all rosy, the new (back then) diesels were having many teething problems, the Beeching cuts were draconian and swift, the first 9F was withdrawn, then Black 5's & 8's started to go. Dub D's (etc) were going at over 30 in some months by 1964. Tony's beloved ECML Pacifics were being culled along with ours on the WCML (Here we still had my beloved Brits till the end of 1967).

 

Sometimes you can find them on ebay etc. A must for the 60's fan.

 

 

Brit15

[robertcwp]

Green, maroon and blue/grey in one train (February 1970 is the processing date on the slide mount):

Woodhead-Route_FEB-70 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

[Jol Wilkinson]

2 hours ago, PMP said:

That’ll be @Jol Wilkinsontriggered! :)

 

 

I think they look rather nice, but then quality will always stand out.

Edited January 13, 2023 by Jol Wilkinson
Amended text

[Dunsignalling]

4 hours ago, Steven B said:

 

It's not BR's fault that Gresley put the beading too low down 😀

RB_Gresley_unknown by robertcwp, on Flickr

 

Steel sided coaches carried the livery well. Mr Thompson did a much better job:

LNER Thompson 63' "RB" (Buffet Lounge Car) No.E1705E by Hugh Llewelyn, on Flickr

 

LMS porthole stock were OK too:

(John Turner on Flickr)

 

I haven't been able to find any SR or GWR passenger stock in blue/grey.

 

Steven B

All Bulleid coaches remaining on the Southern Region disappeared by the end of 1968, not much over a year beyond the end of steam out of Waterloo. None ever carried blue/grey TTBOMK, presumably because their withdrawal was already anticipated when the livery was introduced.

 

However, the region did have a few Mk2 FKs that were green when new!

 

On the WR, IIRC, there were just three Hawksworth corridors that received the corporate colours. 

 

John

Edited January 13, 2023 by Dunsignalling

[rodent279]

4 hours ago, Steven B said:

LMS porthole stock were OK too:

(John Turner on Flickr)

I rather like this. Are any kits or RTR models of this available?

[robertcwp]

23 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said:

All Bulleid coaches remaining on the Southern Region disappeared by the end of 1968, not much over a year beyond the end of steam out of Waterloo. None ever carried blue/grey TTBOMK, presumably because their withdrawal was already anticipated when the livery was introduced.

 

However, the region did have a few Mk2 FKs that were green when new!

 

On the WR, IIRC, there were just three Hawksworth corridors that received the corporate colours. 

 

John

20 Mark 2 FKs were green when new. They mostly went blue/grey when converted to air brake around the time of the Bournemouth electrification or just after. One is the first carriage in this train:

MN_Basingstoke_13-11-65 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

There were also about 50 in maroon when new.

[robertcwp]

2 minutes ago, rodent279 said:

I rather like this. Are any kits or RTR models of this available?

Bachmann has done the CK in maroon and crimson and cream but not blue/grey. They have done the BSK and SK in blue grey.

[robertcwp]

Incidentally, I believe the porthole CK was the only porthole type to carry four liveries, because the early ones were painted in unbranded LMS livery as they were outshopped before crimson and cream was adopted as standard.

[Northmoor]

2 hours ago, t-b-g said:

 

Thanks. Thinking back, it may have been a link on that thread that led to a photograph collection on Flickr that I saw.

 

If I ever got to the stage where my hands and eyes no longer work well enough to build things, I would still want a layout, OO and RTR based and on the grounds that modelling pre WW1 GCR/GNR/MR/LNWR is always likely to be difficult relying on RTR, I would very likely choose that period to work in. Things like 8Fs hauling MGR wagons and grotty Black 5s on rakes of blue/grey would at least be a bit out of the mainstream. I have never liked following the herd, so I usually look at what everybody else is doing and head somewhere else!  

Not sure 8Fs ever hauled MGR wagons (unless a few empties being moved between yards or off for repair) as they had no means of braking them and certainly couldn't operate at a controlled 0.5mph at the installed collieries and power stations.

[micknich2003]

I have seen a photo' or two of steam hauled MGR's, they would as said be empty and would have run as "Class 9" unfitted.

[Mark Saunders]

7 minutes ago, Northmoor said:

Not sure 8Fs ever hauled MGR wagons (unless a few empties being moved between yards or off for repair) as they had no means of braking them and certainly couldn't operate at a controlled 0.5mph at the installed collieries and power stations.

You don’t need to have the automatic brake in use or have Daleks to open the doors and close them just it’s all done manually! 
 

West Blyth staiths only used Daleks to close the doors.

[t-b-g]

 

This appears elsewhere on RMWeb on this thread:

 

so I hope it is OK to copy it here. These are quite clearly loaded wagons being steam hauled. The original caption says it was at Morpeth.

 

There are other references on that thread to different steam types that have been seen hauling them.

 

 

[APOLLO]

Unidentified 9F 2-10-0 northbound at Springs Branch 1967, brand new 100 ton air braked tank wagons. There are several vacuum braked vans behind the 9F to form a fitted head, also a brake van at rear.

 

 

[Tony Wright]

Looking briefly just now, I don't have too many pictures of layouts depicting the green to blue transition and only-blue on BR during the late-'60s/'70s/early-'80s. However, I believe the period is becoming more-popular as the generation who witnessed it in their more-formative years wishes to recreate the memories in model form; just as I do with my ECML steam favourites. 

 

For those who remember it, Stoke Summit used to run on occasions in 'diesel-mode', the timescale depicted being from green diesels through to all-blue, up to 1975 (when the mechanical signalling was abolished). It seemed to be just as popular as in steam-mode (which did include early diesels as well). Thus, WMRC used to run stuff like this...................

 

 

Tony Geary's much-modified Lima EE Type 4 on the Down 'Queen of Scots'.

 

 

And Rob Kinsey's Dave Alexander BTH Type1.

 

I think one can tell that both the above were in green.

 

A green loco and blue/grey stock...........

 

 

Rob Kinsey's much-altered Brush Type 4 hauling Dave Lewis' XP64 Talisman (made from his own kits).

 

And...............

 

 

One of my much-changed Lima Deltics in late-green condition hauling a Pullman rake in reversed blue (built by Dave Lewis from his own kits). 

 

 

All-blue this time (another of Rob Kinsey's altered Lima 47s), but still with train description panel. 

 

And then...........

 

 

Depicting 1975, a Lima Deltic with 'domino' headcode panel hauling the Up 'Flying Scotsman' (the train was made-up based on a prototype picture, showing some of the cars to be very dirty). 

 

Elder son Tom, made the Deltic above...............

 

 

When he was in his mid-teens. By fitting a much-altered Lima body on top of two Lima EE Type 3 bogies. Neither Stoke Summit nor Little Bytham are big enough to take the ultimate trains it will pull. On Stoke, the loco's nose was six inches away from the rear of the train it was pulling; at least until the train 'imploded' on the end curves! The same occurs on Little Bytham; after 40+ carriages! 

 

It was written up in the Student Modeller section of the RM all those years ago. 

 

At much the same time, I bought one of Phil Parker's layouts for him. By Phil's standards it was 'enormous' at over 15' long by 5' wide. Between us, Tom and I extended it, added more tracks for greater running potential and built a fiddle yard in place of the previous (and hopeless) sector plate. The basic construction was fine, and Tom called it Finton, and it went to a few exhibitions..........

 

 

Here's his Deltic again.

 

 

 

 

And other examples of his diesel modifications; all his own work. 

 

Apologies for the lower-standard photographs; he used an early digital camera, which only had one million pixels! 

 

What's interesting to me is that he chose the BR blue period from the '70s, even though he was born in 1981. I suppose the 'blame' is down to me because I insisted he saw a Deltic in BR action before that mighty Class was withdrawn. Thus, as an eight month-old, his mum pushed him alongside a Deltic at Darlington in August '81. He didn't half pay attention once the twin Napiers opened up! The picture I took of the event appears in one of my Deltic books. 

 

It's a shame he rather 'grew out of' railway modelling (his hobby is rebuilding old cars now, including an E-Type Jag!).

 

As a teenager, he was way ahead of what I was doing at his age..........

 

 

I'm delighted to run one or two of his creations on LB, including this much-modified Lima EE Type 4, produced when he was 15/16, entirely by himself (he's nearly 42 now). 

 

What does all of the above show?

 

That post-steam-outline modelling has been going on for some time, and is growing in popularity? 

 

That to produce 'accurate' steam-outline locos (at least in the last century) kit- or scratch-building was the only real option?

 

Yet, for Stoke Diesel, hardly any kit-building of locos was necessary, though much-modification was needed to the RTR diesel-outline stuff? 

 

I hope the above shots are of some interest..............

[LNER4479]

Some pix of the transition era phase of the rolling sequence on Shap:

 

Last summer of steam-hauled SO relief trains. [A York]

 

Filthy, nameless Britannia-hauled, banked freight meets new Freightliner service. [A York]

 

Blue / green lightweight DMU passes maroon / blue-grey express at the summit (the latter normally hauled by an ex-Stoke Summit Brush 4) [TW]

 

1967 railtour with preserved steam loco. [TW]

 

D400 and the all blue-grey set, just squeezing into the 1967 timeframe (routine double heading didn't start till 1971?). Headcode since corrected! [A York]

 

Not my personal favourite phase of the sequence BUT I acknowledge that it does create great interest so perfectly happy to include such trains on that basis. We usually cycle around in about 45 mins (providing the gremlins keep at bay) so you shouldn't have to wait too long to see such scenes at a show. Next outing is York at Easter.

 

[APOLLO]

The early BR Freightliner trains had a small container that was provided for the guard. 

 

 

 

They were found not suitable  so a full brake was substituted usually behind the loco for the guard. At that time there was a union dispute re the guard riding in the rear cab which was later resolved. Not sure of the dates.

 

 

A Stanier full brake was often used. Not sure what the above coach is.

 

Brit15

[cctransuk]

4 minutes ago, APOLLO said:

The early BR Freightliner trains had a small container that was provided for the guard. 

 

 

 

They were found not suitable  so a full brake was substituted usually behind the loco for the guard. At that time there was a union dispute re the guard riding in the rear cab which was later resolved. Not sure of the dates.

 

 

A Stanier full brake was often used. Not sure what the above coach is.

 

Brit15

 

Dynamometer car?

 

CJI.

 

[LNER4479]

19 minutes ago, APOLLO said:

The early BR Freightliner trains had a small container that was provided for the guard. 

 

Like this, you mean? (crop of lousy pic of mine from Glasgow show. Only pic I could lay my hand on at the moment).

 

This is the alternative design of container guard's van - Barry O knows more about this than I do. This runs at the rear of the train - was this an alternative attempt to pacify the guards? Sorry my knowledge is very sketchy on such things (but always willing to learn). Note the humorous container that was being sold for the Glasgow show. I never go to any show without a pack of Uddingston's finest!