Wright writes.....

[rodent279]

3 hours ago, DenysW said:

Rather harsh that. Conventional wisdom seems to be that the only way to experiment (within GWR) was to do it as part of a working locomotive. So if you want to explore more powerful boilers, they need to be attached to enough other gubbins to make it run as a locomotive. The non-railway company I used to work for was applying the same "you can experiment, but only if you are 100% sure it will work" philosophy up to the point I retired, a couple of years back.

Meant somewhat tongue-in-cheek! Though not an abject failure, it wasn't his greatest work.

And it is quite a good looking engine,  though the firebox does look a little weedy.

Edited March 8, 2023 by rodent279

[PaulaDoesTrains]

10 hours ago, Willie Whizz said:

I would suggest that also responsible for the popularity of the GWR branch line in the 1950s and 60s was that BBC “Interlude” showing a cute little 0-4-2 tank engine trundling round a nicely-scenic layout with the instrumental music “Wheels” playing in the background. Free BBC advertising!

 

(For those too young to remember, back in those days most tv programmes went out “live” from the studio, and if the next one wasn’t quite ready to start they would put on a short (2-3 minute) film as a “filler” - another well-remembered one being a potter’s wheel. 

 

I remember that so well. Thanks for mentioning it. I had dreams of emulating it by building a layout running around the walls of my bedroom. Never happened of course: O levels, A levels, Uni, growing up etc. I only discovered in the past few years that it was done by a gentleman named Bob Symes who, apparently, was well known in railway modelling circles in those days. There's a video on YouTube somewhere where he says how he filmed it. It was O gauge and the loco only ran over a few yards of track IRC. The rest was done by very clever camera work and editing.

[Tony Wright]

Speaking of LNER RTR Pacifics, how about these two in TT?

 

 

FLYING SCOTSMAN in Wembley Exhibition finish. 

 

 

And WILLIAM WHITELAW in late-'50s condition. 

 

I'm reviewing these for BRM..............

 

 

[Bernard Lamb]

7 minutes ago, PaulaDoesTrains said:

 

I remember that so well. Thanks for mentioning it. I had dreams of emulating it by building a layout running around the walls of my bedroom. Never happened of course: O levels, A levels, Uni, growing up etc. I only discovered in the past few years that it was done by a gentleman named Bob Symes who, apparently, was well known in railway modelling circles in those days. There's a video on YouTube somewhere where he says how he filmed it. It was O gauge and the loco only ran over a few yards of track IRC. The rest was done by very clever camera work and editing.

Not just in those days.

Not just models either. He was involved in full size stuff. Director of BURCo amongst other activities.

Equally, if not even more, well known in Austria and Germany where he produced some brilliant films. I have the video of 18 201 undergoing heavy repair,

He made what was just about the smallest scale diesel powered loco just to show his versatility.

A real one off larger than life character.

Bernard

[Willie Whizz]

Saw the Hornby A3 “train set” running at the Mansfield Exhibition last weekend. Having owned a Triang TT3 set as a lad, and having viewed a few 3mm-scale layouts over the years at various shows, my main impression was that although from a modest distance it ‘looked about right’, it seemed smaller than I’d expected. But that’s where the “120” bit comes in, I suppose …

Edited March 8, 2023 by Willie Whizz

[chris p bacon]

4 hours ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Ah!! the not often modelled Bedford and Cambridge Railway station with that London to Peterbrough branch passing by. Sounds wonderful. I look forward to seeing the LNWR locos and stock you are making for it . 😉

 

I have been amassing some LNWR kits and bits...but that lining 😲 Although luckily for me, and something you're probably not aware of is the LNWR only ran services in the dark....and fog....on a moonless night....so very little detail can be seen...🙄

 

In the meantime the test etches for this are on the bench.....yee haaa put the wagons in a circle.

Edited March 8, 2023 by chris p bacon
typo

[Clive Mortimore]

17 minutes ago, chris p bacon said:

 

I have been amassing some LNWR kits and bits...but that lining 😲 Although luckily for me, and something you're probably not aware of is the LNWR only ran services in the dark....and fog....on a moonless night....so very little detail can be seen...🙄

 

In the meantime the test etches for this are on the bench.....yee haaa put the wagons in a circle.

You gone all American?

[micklner]

59 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Speaking of LNER RTR Pacifics, how about these two in TT?

 

 

FLYING SCOTSMAN in Wembley Exhibition finish. 

 

 

And WILLIAM WHITELAW in late-'50s condition. 

 

I'm reviewing these for BRM..............

 

 

They need to do something about the Juggernaut wheels , just look very weird on both Locos.Cab roof edge looks very thick on the A4 , same on the A1?. 

 

Flying Scotsman as a  A1version.

There should'nt be the raised Footplate "covers" behind the Cylinders they are A3 fittings.

Wheels not lined out?. Polished Axle ends.

Tender Front plate should be lIned out Green, not Black.

Other then the wheel axles being silve/polished  (a minor point) all the other details are correctly done on the most recent superdeatail 4mm versions of  Hornby A1's.

 

 

 

Edited March 8, 2023 by micklner

[chris p bacon]

17 minutes ago, Clive Mortimore said:

You gone all American?

Sure have....The first cab roof in the shape of a Stetson.

[t-b-g]

17 minutes ago, micklner said:

They need to do something about the Juggernaut wheels , just look very weird on both Locos.Cab roof edge looks very thick on the A4 , same on the A1?. 

 

Flying Scotsman a A1version.

There should'nt be the raised Footplate "covers" behind the Cylinders they are A3 fittings.

Wheels not lined out?.

Tender Front plate should be lIned out Green, not Black.

 

 

 

 

I have been looking at some of the new TT:120 models and I have to say that my initial impression is that they have a lack of finesse about the wheels and motion that would be enough to put me off. I do wonder if there will be a finescale "spin off" version of this scale, like 2mm Finescale, or EM or P4. That body with some decent wheels and valve gear could look quite tasty.

 

I am a bit puzzled by a few things, such as the lever/rod obscuring the rear LHS driving wheel splasher, which is clearly not there in the prototype photo. I also think the splashers are a bit on the large size, possibly to accommodate those huge flanges and the painting and lining of them doesn't match the real thing. Back to my favourite hobbyhorse, the model has black splasher tops. I have no idea if that is right for the loco in this condition but it does show that somebody thinks FS had black splasher tops at some time.

 

 As it is, I see nothing that tempts me in the slightest. Hornby have done 4mm A3s and A4s to death and it seems to me that they want to carry on producing new versions of them without duplicating too many past models, so hey, let's invent a new scale. I can see people being interested at first then, when they realise just how little choice there is in the range, perhaps losing that interest in favour of the vast array of models available in 4mm. In my mind, I can see an exhibition with TT:120 layouts all with A3s and A4s going round and not much else!

[Erichill16]

14 minutes ago, t-b-g said:

 

I have been looking at some of the new TT:120 models and I have to say that my initial impression is that they have a lack of finesse about the wheels and motion that would be enough to put me off. I do wonder if there will be a finescale "spin off" version of this scale, like 2mm Finescale, or EM or P4. That body with some decent wheels and valve gear could look quite tasty.

 

I am a bit puzzled by a few things, such as the lever/rod obscuring the rear LHS driving wheel splasher, which is clearly not there in the prototype photo. I also think the splashers are a bit on the large size, possibly to accommodate those huge flanges and the painting and lining of them doesn't match the real thing. Back to my favourite hobbyhorse, the model has black splasher tops. I have no idea if that is right for the loco in this condition but it does show that somebody thinks FS had black splasher tops at some time.

 

 As it is, I see nothing that tempts me in the slightest. Hornby have done 4mm A3s and A4s to death and it seems to me that they want to carry on producing new versions of them without duplicating too many past models, so hey, let's invent a new scale. I can see people being interested at first then, when they realise just how little choice there is in the range, perhaps losing that interest in favour of the vast array of models available in 4mm. In my mind, I can see an exhibition with TT:120 layouts all with A3s and A4s going round and not much else!

 

[Erichill16]

16 minutes ago, t-b-g said:

In my mind, I can see an exhibition with TT:120 layouts all with A3s and A4s going round and not much else!

Anyone remember Hornby livesteam OO?

[gr.king]

50 minutes ago, Clive Mortimore said:

You gone all American?

Nah, pure pre-group GNR surely? Or is that unfair to the successors of Matthias Baldwin?

[t-b-g]

1 minute ago, Erichill16 said:

Anyone remember Hornby livesteam OO?

 

Don't remind me! We ended up with our EMGS stand opposite the Hornby live steam layout at Doncaster show for a few years. The smell and the fumes were awful.

[Erichill16]

2 minutes ago, t-b-g said:

 

Don't remind me! We ended up with our EMGS stand opposite the Hornby live steam layout at Doncaster show for a few years. The smell and the fumes were awful.

I was going to mention that in my original post. It’s the only place I see it and just walk by. My friends on the MERG stand must feel the same as you.

Edited March 8, 2023 by Erichill16
Add last two words

[Compound2632]

1 hour ago, chris p bacon said:

In the meantime the test etches for this are on the bench.....yee haaa put the wagons in a circle.

 

Hum. Are there significant differences between the Great Northern, Great Central, and Midland Baldwins?

[sandra]

6 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Good afternoon Graeme,

 

I did mention the 'lack' of an original Raven Pacific in my listing of RTR LNER Pacific models. Anyway, if it ever came about (never say never), which one would be the choice, for there were several variants among the five in the class? 

 

As for the original A2/2 manifestation not being available RTR (including 60503/4 right up to the end of their lives), the answer is simple. When I was 'consulted' by Hornby with regard to the production of an RTR A2/3, I was asked as to the commonality between the A2/3s and A2/2s. Since 60501/2/5/6 latterly received Peppercorn Dia.118 boilers (and 60505 a Thompson Dia.117 boiler eventually to withdrawal), and all the A2/3s carried both types of boiler at one time or another, then the choice was obvious. Produce 19 different locos with 'relative' ease, or just six. Creating an A2/3 from an original A2/2 was considered far too costly. 

 

In a way, I'm glad. I have my A2/2 still with its shortened P2 boiler and full 'V'-fronted cab (60504), my A1/1 and my A2/1, all built from kits. What was once a main line railway rarely modelled (particularly in BR steam days), creating an latter day steam ECML layout motive power-wise has never been easier (though I have to say, I find endless examples of RTR ex-LNER Pacifics a little boring now). 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Hello Tony,

 

I have been trying to build an A2/2 with the original boiler from an ancient Crownline kit. Unfortunately the kit was for one of the four locos with the cut cab. Thus a large amount of work has been involved in trying to alter it to represent one with the original boiler. The kit had a resin boiler which I did not think acceptable and so this was replaced by a boiler from a Millholme Models A2/3. I had to scratchbuild a new cab roof and a new smoke box. Here is the result so far.

She is intended to become 60504 Mons Meg and here she is on test hauling the up Heart of Midlothian of 13 coaches. She could handle this train quite easily but I think she could do with a bit more weight.

 

She is very much “work in progress” and I realise that she may not be the most accurate representation of this loco but I had bought the kit along time ago after it had been started by someone who intended to build it in P4. Retford already has two A2/2s, 60501 and 60506 so I fancied one of the two which retained the original boiler and modifying this elderly kit seemed a way of achieving this. I also have two unbuilt DJH kits for these locomotives so Retford could end up with models of five of the six locomotives.

 

Sandra

[gr.king]

1 hour ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Hum. Are there significant differences between the Great Northern, Great Central, and Midland Baldwins?

Within the realms of the Baldwin product, or are we including the Midland-only Schenectady / ALCO type too?

[melmoth]

1 hour ago, t-b-g said:

 

I have been looking at some of the new TT:120 models and I have to say that my initial impression is that they have a lack of finesse about the wheels and motion that would be enough to put me off. I do wonder if there will be a finescale "spin off" version of this scale, like 2mm Finescale, or EM or P4. That body with some decent wheels and valve gear could look quite tasty.

 

----

 

 As it is, I see nothing that tempts me in the slightest. Hornby have done 4mm A3s and A4s to death and it seems to me that they want to carry on producing new versions of them without duplicating too many past models, so hey, let's invent a new scale. I can see people being interested at first then, when they realise just how little choice there is in the range, perhaps losing that interest in favour of the vast array of models available in 4mm. In my mind, I can see an exhibition with TT:120 layouts all with A3s and A4s going round and not much else!

 

Well, I suppose that there is great potential for finer mechanisms, and Hornby's track is apparently Code 80, so coarser than Peco's OO bullhead, but the scale/gauge ratio is better than N or OO to start with, so 'finer' standards are likely to be driven by engineering capability rather than anything else. 1:120 is already a well established European (and possibly American) scale, therefore I'm not sure that it's a question of inventing a new scale as such.

[t-b-g]

13 minutes ago, melmoth said:

 

Well, I suppose that there is great potential for finer mechanisms, and Hornby's track is apparently Code 80, so coarser than Peco's OO bullhead, but the scale/gauge ratio is better than N or OO to start with, so 'finer' standards are likely to be driven by engineering capability rather than anything else. 1:120 is already a well established European (and possibly American) scale, therefore I'm not sure that it's a question of inventing a new scale as such.

 

I am not talking about inventing a new scale. EM and P4 were not new scales. Just more accurate versions of 4mm scale. The engineering side shouldn't be difficult. The 2mm scale folk cracked all those problems long ago.

 

Maybe a finescale 1:120 version already exists, with finer track and wheels but still using 12mm gauge. If it does, I haven't seen it.

 

Hornby have produced a RTR system with a correct to scale track gauge but with fairly crude track and wheel standards more suited to train sets than scale models. I would hope that they know what their market place looks like but for me, that combination doesn't fill me with any enthusiasm.

[lezz01]

Hornby's main market place IS the trainset. It's quite clear from the TV show. They leave finer standards to others. I would say that it's trainsets first and train packs second they pack as many gimmicks into something as they can for playability value and then aim individual locos at collectors not modellers. They aim at modellers via Airfix. 

Regards Lez.

Edited March 9, 2023 by lezz01

[t-b-g]

4 minutes ago, lezz01 said:

Hornby's main market place IS the trainset. It's quite clear from the TV show. They leave finer standards to others.

Regards Lez.

 

I know that. Hornby Dublo and Triang were the same. Then modellers who wanted to make things look more realistic developed finer standards to improve the look of things. All I was trying to ponder was whether anybody will do the same with TT:120. I wasn't expecting Hornby to.

 

I just think that the Hornby bodies are pretty decent but they look less good under the footplate. It is the sort of thing some modellers see as an opportunity to "do a job" to improve a RTR model.

 

 

[CF MRC]

3 hours ago, chris p bacon said:

 

.🙄

 

In the meantime the test etches for this are on the bench.....yee haaa put the wagons in a circle.

Looks familiar…maybe the bar frames a bit thicker?

 

Tim

Edited March 9, 2023 by CF MRC

[Compound2632]

7 hours ago, gr.king said:

Within the realms of the Baldwin product, or are we including the Midland-only Schenectady / ALCO type too?

 

I was thinking only of the Baldwin engines. The Schenectady engines were substantially different. I know about the Midland engines but not the GN and GC ones, which seem to have got much less publicity at the time and be generally less well-known; I assume it is a GN Baldwin Dave is building?

[Tony Wright]

9 hours ago, sandra said:

Hello Tony,

 

I have been trying to build an A2/2 with the original boiler from an ancient Crownline kit. Unfortunately the kit was for one of the four locos with the cut cab. Thus a large amount of work has been involved in trying to alter it to represent one with the original boiler. The kit had a resin boiler which I did not think acceptable and so this was replaced by a boiler from a Millholme Models A2/3. I had to scratchbuild a new cab roof and a new smoke box. Here is the result so far.

She is intended to become 60504 Mons Meg and here she is on test hauling the up Heart of Midlothian of 13 coaches. She could handle this train quite easily but I think she could do with a bit more weight.

 

She is very much “work in progress” and I realise that she may not be the most accurate representation of this loco but I had bought the kit along time ago after it had been started by someone who intended to build it in P4. Retford already has two A2/2s, 60501 and 60506 so I fancied one of the two which retained the original boiler and modifying this elderly kit seemed a way of achieving this. I also have two unbuilt DJH kits for these locomotives so Retford could end up with models of five of the six locomotives.

 

Sandra

Good morning Sandra,

 

MONS MEG looks good.

 

Did you alter the central footplate section? The originals were shorter, with the 'S' bend in the footplate further forward. 

 

Pete Hill did a LORD PRESIDENT (I think) which used to run on Retford. If he brings it back, you could have all six A2/2s (all with subtle differences). 

 

Regards,

 

Tony.