Wright writes.....

[Dunsignalling]

18 hours ago, Willie Whizz said:

Good grief, give ‘em chance, they’ve only been going with it a bare few months!

 

 How long did it take Mainline/Bachman or Airfix to reach a respectable depth and spread of steam and diesel ranges in their target market when they first came into it?  Years, if I recall correctly! And that was an established market, not a virgin one. I would be very surprised if a variety of other TT120 locos, steam and diesel, are not on the drawing-board or at least in Simon Kohler’s eye, awaiting the go-ahead once the ‘glamourous’ set has done its job of proving whether such a market even exists at all. 

Today's model train hobby is very different from that of the late 1970s, and Airfix and Mainline (who can probably be credited with lighting the blue touch-paper for that) weren't introducing new locos any more slowly that Tri-ang/Hornby did in those days. Launching into an existing market meant that sales could (and did) find their own level. The fact that they didn't grow fast enough for either business to survive was unfortunate, though the models mostly did.

 

With Hornby being the sole supplier (at least for now) of TT:120 locomotives, they need the market for the new scale to grow quickly. Increasing the number and diversity of locomotives in the range rather faster than we would expect to happen in an existing scale is probably a necessary part of that.

 

The factor most likely to persuade newcomers against TT:120, has nothing at all to do with any perceived shortcomings in the new venture itself.

 

It will be the overwhelmingly greater choice available to them if they adopt OO or N gauges instead.

 

John

Edited March 12, 2023 by Dunsignalling

[paul.anderson@poptel.org]

I'm sorry to break the consensus on shutting up about this, but Hornby's marketing decisions are relevant to us as modellers. Hornby remains the biggest player in our game. We might wish it luck or think it hopelessly deluded (or both). And TT might be for another thread. But its business model is an issue worthy of informed discussion. Sorry if it's it's boring, but it has got everything wrong rather often as the market-leader.

[t-b-g]

Just now, paul.anderson@poptel.org said:

I'm sorry to break the consensus on shutting up about this, but Hornby's marketing decisions are relevant to us as modellers. Hornby remains the biggest player in our game. We might wish it luck or think it hopelessly deluded (or both). And TT might be for another thread. But its business model is an issue worthy of informed discussion. Sorry if it's it's boring, but it has got everything wrong rather often as the market-leader.

 

I don't think that anybody is saying that the TT range or Hornby's marketing strategy shouldn't be discussed. It is just that there have been threads dedicated to the subjects that have had a huge amount of input, possibly from people who don't frequent Wright Writes.

 

So TW has suggested that future discussion on such matters might be better placed on the relevant threads rather than on "his" modelling thread.

 

I think he was making a good call there and I am happy to respect Tony's wishes for his own thread. Most of what is being said now is just repeating what was on the other threads anyway and it is a pretty pointless duplication.

 

I have always looked at Wright Writes for the input and content relating to model making, not discussions on RTR ranges. I hope that can continue.

[Tony Wright]

4 hours ago, t-b-g said:

 

Looking a those models, I just see lots of very subtle differences between what should be models of the same type of loco. I wouldn't know which bits of each model are correct or not but things like the angle of the joint between the firebox and boiler at the top edge, or the angle of the diagonal lower front edge of the firebox vary just a bit, as do the shape and size of the rectangular covers on the smokebox and several other aspects.

 

I wonder if the "best" model A3 (or Gresley A1) that has been produced is? I remember a rather good looking one appearing in MRJ some time ago. Was it "Columbo" and did it ever get in front of TW for a photograph?   

Good evening Tony,

 

One of the best (if not the best - certainly in 4mm) model of a Gresley non-streamlined Pacific I had the privilege of photographing was of a Finney kit which the late John Hayes had made, representing BLAIR ATHOL in P4. It was exquisite. Unfortunately I took it on film (at Leatherhead, years ago), so cannot reproduce it here, though it has appeared in print. 

 

As for COLOMBO (three 'O's), I don't think I've ever taken a picture of a model of her, though I did of the real thing at Darlington, late in her life as a standby loco.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Tony Wright]

Well, Jesse Sim has eventually arrived (a little late, at Peterborough!). It's great to see him.

 

He's brought a large collection of his models with him from 'down-under'. Including............

 

 

This C12 - his first completed loco kit.

 

 

This splendid engineers' train. Which had in it................

 

 

A crane.

 

 

Some staff vans.

 

 

And some ballast wagons.

 

 

All in the charge of this J6.

 

He also brought back the DJH Raven A2 kit which I built, which Geoff Haynes painted, and he's now weathered.

 

 

 

The front section of the handrail this side had been damaged in transit and needs attention.

 

More (lots more!) to follow............. I hope he'll elaborate on these.

 

 

[2750Papyrus]

Good to see some lovely models from Jesse there, can we see them running, please?

 

I can't remember why a young Aussie has chosen to model the pre-war ECML.  Perhaps he could be persuaded to tell us how his interest was kindled?

[Buhar]

22 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Well, Jesse Sim has eventually arrived (a little late, at Peterborough!). It's great to see him.

 

He's brought a large collection of his models with him from 'down-under'. Including............

Was there any room in @Jesse Sim's luggage for clothes or is a tour of the local charity shops needed?

 

Alan

[t-b-g]

1 hour ago, Tony Wright said:

Good evening Tony,

 

One of the best (if not the best - certainly in 4mm) model of a Gresley non-streamlined Pacific I had the privilege of photographing was of a Finney kit which the late John Hayes had made, representing BLAIR ATHOL in P4. It was exquisite. Unfortunately I took it on film (at Leatherhead, years ago), so cannot reproduce it here, though it has appeared in print. 

 

As for COLOMBO (three 'O's), I don't think I've ever taken a picture of a model of her, though I did of the real thing at Darlington, late in her life as a standby loco.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

Oops. Too much time spent watching a certain detective from the USA. "Just one more thing......"

[LNER4479]

1 hour ago, Buhar said:

Was there any room in @Jesse Sim's luggage for clothes ...

 

Nah - a man from Oz only needs a few clothes.

 

 

[jwealleans]

8 hours ago, 2750Papyrus said:

... can we see them running, please?

 

You can see the A2 here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAhSeWAxdcs

[polybear]

14 hours ago, t-b-g said:

I wonder if the "best" model A3 (or Gresley A1) that has been produced is? I remember a rather good looking one appearing in MRJ some time ago. Was it "Columbo" and did it ever get in front of TW for a photograph?   

 

10 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

One of the best (if not the best - certainly in 4mm) model of a Gresley non-streamlined Pacific I had the privilege of photographing was of a Finney kit which the late John Hayes had made, representing BLAIR ATHOL in P4. It was exquisite. Unfortunately I took it on film (at Leatherhead, years ago), so cannot reproduce it here, though it has appeared in print. 

 

As for COLOMBO (three 'O's), I don't think I've ever taken a picture of a model of her, though I did of the real thing at Darlington, late in her life as a standby loco.

 

 

Hi Tony's (Tonies?),

 

There were articles in MRJ describing John's Hayes' build of a Finney A3 'Colorado' (Issues 66 and 67; also issue 117).

HTH

Brian

[Tony Wright]

10 hours ago, 2750Papyrus said:

Good to see some lovely models from Jesse there, can we see them running, please?

 

I can't remember why a young Aussie has chosen to model the pre-war ECML.  Perhaps he could be persuaded to tell us how his interest was kindled?

I'll take some moving footage of Jesse's stuff over the next few days. 

 

Unfortunately, any 'super-smooth' running is compromised by the locos being fitted with decoders. Fine on a DCC system, but on just analogue, any fine control (particularly stopping and starting) is impossible. However, once running, they're fine.

 

I think the likes of Grantham first inspired him to model the LNER, though a full running session on Little Bytham today (in 1958 mode, of course) should prove of interest.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[St Enodoc]

57 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

I'll take some moving footage of Jesse's stuff over the next few days. 

 

Unfortunately, any 'super-smooth' running is compromised by the locos being fitted with decoders. Fine on a DCC system, but on just analogue, any fine control (particularly stopping and starting) is impossible. However, once running, they're fine.

 

I think the likes of Grantham first inspired him to model the LNER, though a full running session on Little Bytham today (in 1958 mode, of course) should prove of interest.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Interesting. Most of us disable DC on our DCC-fitted locos to improve running. Perhaps he's reactivated it for his trip North.

[Jesse Sim]

9 hours ago, LNER4479 said:

 

Nah - a man from Oz only needs a few clothes.

 

 

Not far off to be honest, I forgot my Akubra (the hat). 

[Jesse Sim]

11 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Well, Jesse Sim has eventually arrived (a little late, at Peterborough!). It's great to see him.

 

He's brought a large collection of his models with him from 'down-under'. Including............

 

 

This C12 - his first completed loco kit.

 

 

This splendid engineers' train. Which had in it................

 

 

A crane.

 

 

Some staff vans.

 

 

And some ballast wagons.

 

 

All in the charge of this J6.

 

He also brought back the DJH Raven A2 kit which I built, which Geoff Haynes painted, and he's now weathered.

 

 

 

The front section of the handrail this side had been damaged in transit and needs attention.

 

More (lots more!) to follow............. I hope he'll elaborate on these.

 

 

It’s been good to see you Tony! 
 

My modeling has come along way since last I was here (Nov 2019) so I wanted to bring some models that show it. 
 

The C12 is a Crafstmans kit and is actually the third locomotive I have started and the second I’ve completed. 
 

We have the engineers train which has a mix of kit and scratch built wagons. The DS Shildon crane once belonged to Ron Reily and was built in EM with a ghastly green paint job and it needed finishing. It also has a scratchbuilt runner wagon to support the arm. 
 

Moving along we have the three nessecwry vans at the rear, a 3D printed ECJS Mess van, a 51L G1 tool van (my first whitemetal kit) and a DS GN ballast Brake van.

 

Flipping the camera around we have three ballast wagons, the first two are made from

Hornby wagons with the tarps covering the incorrect oil box’s, the larger of the three is a scratchbuilt offering of a GN ballast brake made from a NER plate wagon using the cut and shut method. 
 

At the head of the train is a Nu-cast J6, this is my first kit built loco I’ve finished. None of the models you see here are perfect but they’re mine and I’m happy with them. Yes they need improvements, but I am only into my third year of kit/scratchbuilding can’t wait to see year 25 🤣

 

Lastly is the A2 I purchased of you Tony, nicely weathered, not too dark but enough to show her nice and dirty in her final year. 

[Jesse Sim]

11 hours ago, 2750Papyrus said:

Good to see some lovely models from Jesse there, can we see them running, please?

 

I can't remember why a young Aussie has chosen to model the pre-war ECML.  Perhaps he could be persuaded to tell us how his interest was kindled?

I’d always been interested in trains, Thomas the tank and my Pops model railway really had a profound effect on me. 
 

I was gifted a garage at my other grandparents house and started buying different things and making my own little layout. It eventually progressed and I was modelling the 50s very loosely, I had all sorts of locos from different areas etc etc. It all changed when I seen the front cover of BRM in the March 2014 edition; Grantham! I fell in love and started googling and finding info, I had sold all my stock and started buying LNER models and the disease stuck!
 

It’s quite surreal that the Grantham crew are now my dear friends (I think) and that I spent the previous weekend operating it at Harrogate. 
 

By far the biggest effect on me with LNER modelling has been @jwealleans who over the last couple of years through covid has really helped me with LNER knowledge and building LNER related stock that you can’t buy off the shelf. 
 

But if I was to name names of the people

who have helped me I would be here all day. 
 

But we can’t forget Mo! The backbone of the whole operation who's about to get a pile of a week and half’s washing! (I asked politely first). 

[Bucoops]

To paraphrase Flash Gordon - "Jesse's alive!"

[Chuffer Davies]

1 hour ago, St Enodoc said:

Interesting. Most of us disable DC on our DCC-fitted locos to improve running. Perhaps he's reactivated it for his trip North.

I’ve never bothered disabling DC on my models, mainly because DCC has been fitted so that we can exploit the excellent control that it provides when shunting in the station yard.  Running on the mainline under DC is perfectly adequate.  I would be interested to hear your reasoning behind disabling DC and the benefit this provides you?

I can also hear Tony’s voice in my head telling us that his models run perfectly under DC control and he can’t see any reason for going DCC.  Tony we will have to agree to disagree because having extensive experience of operating the same models on Hungerford before and after converting to DCC, I can say with complete confidence that shunting under DCC is superior for two reasons:  Firstly enabling a degree of inertia avoids the less skilled operator from starting and stopping the shunting movement too aggressively, a common fault I have observed on exhibition layouts.  Secondly the 15volt constant current reduces the tendency of locos sticking as the track and wheels become increasingly contaminated from the atmosphere in the exhibition hall as the operating day progresses.  People following Grantham (a DC layout) this last weekend at Harrogate will have read the problems they had because of live steam models operating in the same exhibition hall.  It was our experience of  the exact same issue one time at Ally Pally that was the trigger to our investigating DCC originally.

[St Enodoc]

4 minutes ago, Chuffer Davies said:

I’ve never bothered disabling DC on my models, mainly because DCC has been fitted so that we can exploit the excellent control that it provides when shunting in the station yard.  Running on the mainline under DC is perfectly adequate.  I would be interested to hear your reasoning behind disabling DC and the benefit this provides you?

I can also hear Tony’s voice in my head telling us that his models run perfectly under DC control and he can’t see any reason for going DCC.  Tony we will have to agree to disagree because having extensive experience of operating the same models on Hungerford before and after converting to DCC, I can say with complete confidence that shunting under DCC is superior for two reasons:  Firstly enabling a degree of inertia avoids the less skilled operator from starting and stopping the shunting movement too aggressively, a common fault I have observed on exhibition layouts.  Secondly the 15volt constant current reduces the tendency of locos sticking as the track and wheels become increasingly contaminated from the atmosphere in the exhibition hall as the operating day progresses.  People following Grantham (a DC layout) this last weekend at Harrogate will have read the problems they had because of live steam models operating in the same exhibition hall.  It was our experience of  the exact same issue one time at Ally Pally that was the trigger to our investigating DCC originally.

It depends on a number of things, not least the specific decoders and the controller. There are plenty of sources that recommend not running DCC locos on DC, some common reasons being:

 

- feedback controllers probably won't work well and might damage the decoder.

- you often have to increase the voltage to a higher level to start a DCC loco on DC.

- some decoders won't work on DC at all.

 

Conversely, with some decoders, enabling DC when running under DCC can cause uncontrollable runaways.

 

Personally, I'd keep DC locos on DC layouts and DCC locos on DCC layouts.

[New Haven Neil]

34 minutes ago, St Enodoc said:

enabling DC when running under DCC can cause uncontrollable runaways.

 

This has always been the main reason.  It was more prevalent in the early days of DCC as it would appear more modern decoders are lees prone to this, but it would trigger from some other misdemeanour such as a momentary short.  I still do it just out of habit nowadays.

[Chuffer Davies]

30 minutes ago, New Haven Neil said:

 

This has always been the main reason.  It was more prevalent in the early days of DCC as it would appear more modern decoders are lees prone to this, but it would trigger from some other misdemeanour such as a momentary short.  I still do it just out of habit nowadays.

I did not know that so thank you for explaining the issue.  As it happens, because our layouts (Hungerford and Clayton) are both designed as analogue first and DCC second we still have all the normal isolation facilities you would expect of an analogue layout. As a result runaways could never actually happen except on my small test track, which may be why I’ve never experienced it.

Frank

[New Haven Neil]

53 minutes ago, Chuffer Davies said:

I did not know that so thank you for explaining the issue.  As it happens, because our layouts (Hungerford and Clayton) are both designed as analogue first and DCC second we still have all the normal isolation facilities you would expect of an analogue layout. As a result runaways could never actually happen except on my small test track, which may be why I’ve never experienced it.

Frank

 

You're welcome, Frank.

 

I have used DCC for what must be getting on for 25 years, and in my 'early days' I did experience this behaviour, with USA decoders (I was a US outline modeller at the time) from Digitrax or TCS.  One Digitrax decoder in particular was a bu**er for it and eventually got binned, its just one of those things that has faded into the background as things are improved.  I don't recall reading about it happening for quite some time.

 

Tony will of course tell us his DC locos never run away attended.

 

Until, that is, someone leaves a section switch turned on they had forgotten about!  😋 Tongue firmly in cheek.

[Barry O]

I occasionally get dccc sound fitted locos back from Carlisle as they "run away". So fare everyone of these has had dc enabled (NOT by me!). 

 

If you use "dc" systems (like Relcos) or dc controllers with a lot of high frequency ripple (used to get better control of dc locos in the past) expect to blow dc enabled dcc decoders.

 

Baz

Edited March 14, 2023 by Barry O

[AndyID]

16 minutes ago, Barry O said:

a lot of high frequency tipple

 

I do find beer can be a high frequency tipple but that's probably more to do with the water pills I take for my elevated BP.

 

[Tony Wright]

I'm prepared to concede that a good-running locomotive, particularly at very low-speed, might work better on DCC, for the reasons explained. I, of course won't touch it, for the reasons I've explained many times - would it add anything to Bytham's running? No. Will it be incredibly expensive to install? Yes; how much is a decent decoder x over 220? Do I need artificial sound? No. Am I prepared to sacrifice ballast space to install a chip? No. Do I understand DCC? No. Do I understand analogue wiring? Enough to know how to install it and trouble shoot. Do I know why DCC-fitted locos don't respond well on DC? No, and don't want to know, and it made getting some of Jesse's locos exactly into position for a photograph quite difficult. 

 

Today, Jesse and four other chums had a great day running Little Bytham. 

 

The morning session was run by Jesse, Geoff West and Geoff Haynes......

 

 

 

In between the running, Geoff Haynes and Jesse were discussing some finer points of the Raven A2.

 

Geoff H had to go at lunchtime (he still has to teach part-time), and his place was taken by...........

 

George Stevenson and David Rae. 

 

What a great time, chaps; thanks ever so much. It's really what Little Bytham is all about, since I never run it by myself. There is no more-rewarding a facet of this hobby than to operate a trainset with some dear chums. And, operate it they did (in my absence, probably better than with my presence!). 

 

Some more of Jesse's locos were run..........

 

 

 

Including this modified Bachmann ex-booster-fitted C1. 

 

 

And his milk train. Lovely!

 

It's not the first time an LNER milk train has run on LB.

 

 

Jonathan Wealleans' one ran during the '38 weekend. 

 

Still more to come.............

 

I've rarely been gratified so much in this wonderful hobby than to witness the progress made by a younger modeller during the few years I've known Jesse. He's 26, and when I was that age (just 50 years ago!), I wasn't anywhere near his standard.