Wright writes.....

[St Enodoc]

9 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Just a little note: I've just managed to add some more ballast into a Hornby Grange (given that its haulage powers were very limited). There was precious little spare space, but 'Liquid Gravity' certainly helped. 

 

My note, though, is in the form of a question. Why are so many RTR locomotives so difficult to get apart? The body/chassis fit on this Grange was very tight, and ominous cracking noises filled me with dread, though no harm was done. 

 

Any loco I make has its body secured to its frames by two 8BA CH screws, one fore, one aft; underneath the smokebox saddle and cab respectively. The fixing 8BA nuts in the body are very securely soldered in place. Once undone, the body just lifts off - literally. There is no friction between the units. Is this (very simple) methodology beyond model products made in China?

 

As for getting modern diesel-/electric-outline models apart, well..........

That's very strange. My Hornby Granges all have a single screw at the back of the frames with a lug under the smokebox. Remove the screw, slide the body back a couple of mm and it just lifts off. Exactly the same method as ancient Tri-ang locos but in reverse.

[Tony Wright]

8 hours ago, Willie Whizz said:

Just to clarify then, when did V2s start to appear in lined Green, please, and by what point were the black ones largely gone?  Did the change coincide with the change from ‘early’ to ‘late’ crest or was that a separate issue?  Thanks. 

Good morning Willie,

 

I cannot find a source which states the dates of the V2s' painting into BR green. However, one or two facts can be established.

 

No BR black V2s carried the second crest. A few BR green V2s carried the early crest, but all subsequently carried the later sort (with the lion on the offside of the tender facing the wrong way to begin with - later corrected). 

 

There's a shot on page 61 of Yeadon showing a clean-ish  BR black V2 at Potters Bar, the period stated being 'the late summer of 1959'. I'd query that (as does Peter Coster), because, although the widening has taken place, the stock is all in carmine/cream. My guess would be at least a year earlier. 

 

So (and this involves guessing - not good if building models), BR green was being applied to V2s by 1957, and all were in that guise by the end of 1959. Which makes 1958 a good year to see V2s at Bytham in both conditions. 

 

I have to say, studying V2 pictures, in many cases it's impossible to tell which colour they're painted, underneath the 'BR standard grime'. Those shedded at New England, York and on Tyneside being particularly dirty for most of their lives. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Tony Wright]

6 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

That's very strange. My Hornby Granges all have a single screw at the back of the frames with a lug under the smokebox. Remove the screw, slide the body back a couple of mm and it just lifts off. Exactly the same method as ancient Tri-ang locos but in reverse.

Strange it might be John........

 

However, though I found the screw through the drag beam easy to undo, sliding the body (in either direction) proved easier said than done. The frames refused to drop out; the footplate at the front started to bend ominously and the motor (and its mess of wires and tape) stuck fast. Not only that, when I eventually did get it apart (convinced I'd be buying a replacement Hornby Grange body for my friend!), the rear sandpipes happily got entangled with some conduits underneath the cab, resulting in the latter's breaking off!  

 

No thank you - folk can stick with their RTR stuff all they like, but it's not for me.

 

I have to take RTR models apart, of course, whenever I review a new loco, but I face it with extreme trepidation. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[thegreenhowards]

14 hours ago, cctransuk said:

 

Tony,

 

In my experience, the time when RTR loco bodies became difficult / impossible to remove, and adhesive weight was compromised, coincided with the introduction of sound-equipped models.

 

What will happen when smoke generation becomes more widespread I dread to think!

 

CJI.

Die cast chassis?

[TrevorP1]

I’ve had the same Grange experience as you Tony, also on other locos from Hornby. I once owned three Hornby Granges but I became so frustrated with their various foibles that I stripped them all down to produce two ‘good’ ones. One of the latter has now begun to make ominous grinding noises… Perhaps I should have built some kits! 
 

Perhaps these models are like washing machines and TVs - thrown away when they go wrong. An anathema to those who read this thread of course!

[thegreenhowards]

1 hour ago, Tony Wright said:

Strange it might be John........

 

However, though I found the screw through the drag beam easy to undo, sliding the body (in either direction) proved easier said than done. The frames refused to drop out; the footplate at the front started to bend ominously and the motor (and its mess of wires and tape) stuck fast. Not only that, when I eventually did get it apart (convinced I'd be buying a replacement Hornby Grange body for my friend!), the rear sandpipes happily got entangled with some conduits underneath the cab, resulting in the latter's breaking off!  

 

No thank you - folk can stick with their RTR stuff all they like, but it's not for me.

 

I have to take RTR models apart, of course, whenever I review a new loco, but I face it with extreme trepidation. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

The Accurascale Deltic and Heljan o gauge class 37s take it to a new level….the bogie chains have to be removed before the body will come off. One sees lots of second hand model with broken chains!

 

Andy

[Tony Wright]

13 minutes ago, thegreenhowards said:

The Accurascale Deltic and Heljan o gauge class 37s take it to a new level….the bogie chains have to be removed before the body will come off. One sees lots of second hand model with broken chains!

 

Andy

Good morning Andy,

 

I haven't tried to take my Accurascale Deltic apart yet (though one of the chains has come loose). 

 

In June, I was part of video at Hattons where one of the chaps there and I investigated 'repairing' second-hand models (these were for potential sale). All was well, as we got various steam-outline models working again, until a Bachmann 37 presented itself. Try as we might, both of us found it impossible to undo at least two of the (six?) screws needed to remove the body. In fact, the crosshead on one just 'sheared' to the extent that the screwdriver would no longer engage. We left it, and (as far as I know) it didn't appear in the video. 

 

By the way, has anyone seen the video? I haven't. I assume it was released.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Edited September 7, 2023 by Tony Wright
to add something

[Tony Wright]

10 minutes ago, TrevorP1 said:

I’ve had the same Grange experience as you Tony, also on other locos from Hornby. I once owned three Hornby Granges but I became so frustrated with their various foibles that I stripped them all down to produce two ‘good’ ones. One of the latter has now begun to make ominous grinding noises… Perhaps I should have built some kits! 
 

Perhaps these models are like washing machines and TVs - thrown away when they go wrong. An anathema to those who read this thread of course!

Thanks Trevor,

 

I was beginning to think it was down to my own incompetence (and prejudice!). 

 

Interestingly, on many RTR locos now, there's a symbol underneath showing a wheelie bin, with a strike through it; meaning, I assume, one should not put dud locos in them! 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Tony Wright]

Though the following might appear to be an example of yet another record stuck in its groove, from recent comments on here (and in general conversation) I'm more and more convinced that the decision to make my own locomotives is a sound one. 

 

Firstly, given quality components, how they run is entirely up (or down) to me. I cannot blame some far-away factory if things don't work. Secondly, with that latter statement in mind, I'm not in the 'hostage to fortune' situation of struggling to get inside an RTR loco should things go wrong (and they do - far more than I'd expect, having examined some recent examples).

 

Granted, I've seen far more poor-running kit-built locos than I have poor-running RTR equivalents (one only has to look at some offered for sale), but how mine work is entirely my responsibility. A responsibility I'm happy to take on. 

Edited September 7, 2023 by Tony Wright
to add something

[john new]

4 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Thanks Trevor,

 

I was beginning to think it was down to my own incompetence (and prejudice!). 

 

Interestingly, on many RTR locos now, there's a symbol underneath showing a wheelie bin, with a strike through it; meaning, I assume, one should not put dud locos in them! 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

As they are small electrical items the relevant  guidance (possibly even now a mandatory rule?) is IIRC that they should be recycled in the small electrical items bin at the recycling centre. I guess the plastic bodies are just dead junk though. Modern one’s with all the extras for DCC, whether or not that is blanked off, definitely qualify as small electrical devices.

 

The more worrying thing is that even after dismantling can you get still get replacement part as motors etc., seem to be changed on a whim and replacements, if comments on fora like this are correct, not made.

[bbishop]

12 hours ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Hello Tony

As a green era modeller I don't need lighting the girls of 93 Serachlight Regiment Royal Artillery would be proud of.  ...  It is at his point where Mrs M's hammer seems a good choice of weapon.

Clive, you do realise you are writing about my mother.  Called up in 1942, actually from Rhyl, basic training in Wrexham, then offered cook, typist or driver.  She rejected all of them!  So they were stuck with a gobby Welsh girl wanting to go on active service.  At which point they offered her searchlights.

 

She was initially based outside St Albans and she spent her war 10 foot up in the air, focussing the beam.  The article mentions pick axe handles and if there were reports of downed German aircrew, they sent out the ATS girls in pairs.  Mum's weapon of choice was actually a baseball bat.  Any Germans, meeting 5' 2" of Gog wielding such a weapon, soon had their hands in the air.

 

They were later moved to Surrey, where their main task was to point damaged Allied bombers to emergency airfields.  And yes, they were awarded the Active Service medal.  Mum's is now held by the Royal Artillery. 

Bill

[46444]

Morning Tony/Trevor,

 

I would agree with you both on the Hornby Grange. Very poorly engineered. Far too much flex in the running plate resulting in those dreaded cracking noises.

 

From my experience of Hornby models of the time it would appear to be a common factor.

 

I have just restored an M7 back to its former glory having been converted to a Caley 439 Class. The dreaded creaking and cracking noises were ever present.

 

The particular weakspot was beneath the smokebox were the running plate join is. 

 

 

I ran a brush full of Mekpak carefully applied underneath to make things more sturdy.

 

Again, a tight fit between chassis and bodyshell. 

 

Recently I had a Hornby Britannia apart. Once more donning and doffing the bodyshell certainly took some patience.  I did enlarge the opening for the chassis lug to make things easier.

 

I note on the recent BR Clan Class offerings there is a looseness in the chassis fit.

 

Like I said previously these Hornby models prone to the above mentioned problems are probably of the time.

 

More recent releases have die-cast boilers or running plates making them more structurally sound whilst improving performance.

 

Cheers,

 

Mark

 

Edited September 7, 2023 by 46444

[sjp23480]

16 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

and the type usually fitted to LMS 4Fs.

Actually, I have a few of those, which also include the tender cover.

[Clive Mortimore]

1 hour ago, bbishop said:

Clive, you do realise you are writing about my mother.  Called up in 1942, actually from Rhyl, basic training in Wrexham, then offered cook, typist or driver.  She rejected all of them!  So they were stuck with a gobby Welsh girl wanting to go on active service.  At which point they offered her searchlights.

 

She was initially based outside St Albans and she spent her war 10 foot up in the air, focussing the beam.  The article mentions pick axe handles and if there were reports of downed German aircrew, they sent out the ATS girls in pairs.  Mum's weapon of choice was actually a baseball bat.  Any Germans, meeting 5' 2" of Gog wielding such a weapon, soon had their hands in the air.

 

They were later moved to Surrey, where their main task was to point damaged Allied bombers to emergency airfields.  And yes, they were awarded the Active Service medal.  Mum's is now held by the Royal Artillery. 

Bill

Hi Bill

 

I have a lot of respect for the women and men of the Anti-Aircraft Command, they were on front line duty every day and night of the war.

[Bucoops]

2 hours ago, thegreenhowards said:

The Accurascale Deltic and Heljan o gauge class 37s take it to a new level….the bogie chains have to be removed before the body will come off. One sees lots of second hand model with broken chains!

 

Andy

 

The nest batch of Deltics will have the chain attachment moved to the chassis, which their 37s have. I've not had any difficulty with the two Deltics I have but I can see them being vulnerable - the "cost" of increased accuracy?

[30368]

3 hours ago, 46444 said:

I have just restored an M7 back to its former glory having been converted to a Caley 439 Class. The dreaded creaking and cracking noises were ever present.

 

The M7 looks very nice Mark, a very minor comment, painting the wheel rims adds a touch of authenticity to the model.

 

Kind regards,

 

30368

Edited September 7, 2023 by 30368

[Anoldpom]

I must have been very fortunate in my choice of locomotive. Resolven Grange entered service on 16th April 2005 and has hardly been off the layout since. She works turn about with Rood Ashton Hall on the XP Vans, usually between 12 to 15 assorted vans plus brake. As I say, apart from wheel cleaning and basic lubrication she has been an amazing loco since the first day I had her.  I will take care should I ever need to remove her body!

[MikeTrice]

22 hours ago, Ken.W said:

 

I just came across this post yesterday when googling for fk3d prints.

 

A while ago I'd bought a set of buffet car tubular steel chairs from him, which are really good and was looking to order more. This is them in a coach I'm currently working on...

 

 

The backing plates the seats came on also made good table tops for the undersized looking Southern Pride tables.

 

Besides the seats he also now has a number of useful LNER Coach parts, including the Stills boiler and cash register for the counter, and the peculiar shaped kitchen roof vents which I've not previously found available anywhere. Also three styles of battery boxes and dynamos. 

 

The coach is the 1934 conversion of a D.27 RTO into a buffet as D.185, which l came across on the Steve Banks website.

Isinglass D27 kit, besides the interior the conversion consists of paneling in 3½ windows

This is a crual enlargement of one of their LNER 4mm Torpedo Vents. Beautiful.

 

[Geep7]

15 hours ago, john new said:

To say nothing of body screws hidden underneath the couplings, and on the Bachman 08 handrails to be removed. The worst that I have had to take top off is theDAPOL B4, where half the chassis comes apart as well.

My worst experience was getting the body off a Heljan Class 128 DPU/PMV to fit a decoder. Having taken out the screws, I wrestled for a good 10 minutes or so to get the bodyshell off, during which time most of the underframe detail deposited itself over my workbench. Fitted the decoder, and then had a fight getting the bodyshell back. Finally did, re-fitted the screws and glued all the underframe detail back on, and swore that i'd never take the body off again. It's still not got a driver, and may stay that way, unless I can fathom the courage to go through all that palaver again.

Edited September 7, 2023 by Geep7

[Bernard Lamb]

I recently went to see  a collection of paintings by Stehen Bone. He was a war artist, more involved with ships than trains. I was doing some further reading and came across this painting. It is in the art gallery and museum in Rugby. This gallery mainly collects items of local interest. This scene was painted in 1942 and has been in the gallery in Rugby since 1947 AFAIK. I was wondering if any of the knowledgeable folk on here can identify the scene as being Rugby, or is it another location or just made up? His landscapes are usuall pretty accurate from what I have seen. Also how accurate are the uniforms? 

Bernard

 

[Tony Wright]

3 hours ago, Anoldpom said:

I must have been very fortunate in my choice of locomotive. Resolven Grange entered service on 16th April 2005 and has hardly been off the layout since. She works turn about with Rood Ashton Hall on the XP Vans, usually between 12 to 15 assorted vans plus brake. As I say, apart from wheel cleaning and basic lubrication she has been an amazing loco since the first day I had her.  I will take care should I ever need to remove her body!

Good afternoon,

 

After I'd added 'Liquid Gravity' to my friend's Grange, it happily took 26 (+ brake van) Parkside long-wheelbase fish vans (all with added ballast). It later took six all-metal kit-built carriages with equal ease, and could have taken more (my friend's layout can only accommodate a maximum of eight-coach trains, anyway). 

 

As noted, my main concern was the struggle in separating the body from the chassis. Ominous cracking noises are just that - ominous! 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Tony Wright]

1 hour ago, Geep7 said:

My worst experience was getting the body off a Heljan Class 128 DPU/PMV to fit a decoder. Having taken out the screws, I wrestled for a good 10 minutes or so to get the bodyshell off, during which time most of the underframe detail deposited itself over my workbench. Fitted the decoder, and then had a fight getting the bodyshell back. Finally did, re-fitted the screws and glued all the underframe detail back on, and swore that i'd never take the body off again. It's still not got a driver, and may stay that way, unless I can fathom the courage to go through all that palaver again.

Good afternoon Chris,

 

Some few years ago, after I'd detailed and a friend had weathered a Bachmann Cravens two-car DMU, I thought it was a good idea to add a driver and some passengers. Despite much effort (and even more profanity!), I never separated the bodies from their frames.

 

I've still to find some of the chassis bits which broke off! 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Tony Wright]

1 hour ago, Bernard Lamb said:

I recently went to see  a collection of paintings by Stehen Bone. He was a war artist, more involved with ships than trains. I was doing some further reading and came across this painting. It is in the art gallery and museum in Rugby. This gallery mainly collects items of local interest. This scene was painted in 1942 and has been in the gallery in Rugby since 1947 AFAIK. I was wondering if any of the knowledgeable folk on here can identify the scene as being Rugby, or is it another location or just made up? His landscapes are usuall pretty accurate from what I have seen. Also how accurate are the uniforms? 

Bernard

 

Good afternoon Bernard,

 

A green loco (to the right) at Rugby in 1942? It would appear to be displaying discs, so somewhere on the Southern? Especially with that lattice post signal.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[A Murphy]

Could that be the small hump at Feltham?

 

Regards,

 

Alastair M

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

8 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

I have to take RTR models apart, of course, whenever I review a new loco, but I face it with extreme trepidation. 

They can sense your fear! The attitude required is that this is just an assembled kit, and thus it must be possible to take it apart.

 

But in all earnest, the past 24 years of RTR OO traction purchases suitable for the ECML GN section in the steam to diesel transition; only one item has been left undisturbed: Heljan O2, the construction scheme and material choices are of the 'don't go there unless absolutely essential' variety.

 

In 'better news' there's been an improving trend since the earlier Bachmann steam models such as the WD 2-8-0, Std 4 2-6-4T and Std 5 which managed both 'cryptic construction scheme' and 'find a surgeon who can give you a third functioning hand'; and the likes of Hornby's Britannia with bodies glued on with great gobs of black-tack. Latterly, no trouble at all.

 

Of all the various diesel driven items, yes, the Bachmann DMU assembly scheme is a pain, but it does feel in keeping with the rattletrap construction of the Cravens units. Possibly good news that you didn't get inside, as the front windscreen moulding then falls in, requiring a purchase of canopy cement .

 

Your layout looks lovely, and I always enjoy what you show here.