Wright writes.....

[jwealleans]

5 minutes ago, 60526 said:

anyone make a model of one of these? When were these first produced?

 

Parkside do a decent kit.   Danny Pinnock (inevitably) did an etched one and they still turn up - in fact it was part of his occasional 4mm reissues so he might have some on the shelf.   The LNER built them in 1938.  I'm less sure when the BR lot was built or details of how many, numbers and so on.

[drmditch]

44 minutes ago, jwealleans said:

 

Parkside do a decent kit.   

indeed they do.

I quite like mine!

(Usual re-worked underframe details.)

 

 

[jwealleans]

The most obvious improvement, for me - fiddly, but not too hard - is to replace the very heavy opening lav window frame with thinner plastic strip.

 

 

These were rebuilds, so I left the underframes alone in the main, but I did substitute brass door handles.

 

[Tony Wright]

5 hours ago, 60526 said:

Tony,

This photo from Ben Brooksbank came up on another site this morning and I wonder if it might stir a few memories from your youth. Aside from being at Chester, that ex LNER horsebox looks interesting, I'm no specialist but probably a dirty crimson?

 

 

Good afternoon Charlie,

 

It does stir memories, but by the date of the picture I'd given up trainspotting as such (I wasn't far off 18). However, the scene is very familiar to me. 

 

The junior school I attended was about five hundred yards to the left of the picture and I knew someone who lived in the terrace to the right. 

 

The picture is taken from the wooden footbridge at the east end of the General (one of three, and now long gone), with the horse box standing on the Up through road. 

 

Those lovely LNWR lower-quadrant signals were the last of their type in the realm.

 

Interestingly, the leading carriage of the Down train is a Thompson of some sort.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Tony Wright]

I've spent the last day or two indulging in some 'really cheap modelling' projects for BRM.

 

Readers might recall the shot of the ridiculous brake van I showed a few days ago (the one with a chimney pot on the roof!).

 

Well, 

 

 

It looks like this now. Granted, it's not a very-accurate model at source, but that's not the point with regard to this project. It was on sale for 50p (though Elaine gave it to me), and the only thing to cost any more was a decent wheel-set. Odd bits and pieces came from my spares box. 

 

So, an inexperienced enthusiast, with precious little money to spare could (with a bit of work) end up with a brake van which, despite its dimensional shortcomings, might look passable on a layout. 

 

Another 50p acquisition was this.......

 

 

A Hornby PO wagon, minus wheels and coupling.

 

But, with about an hour's work.......

 

I've ended up with this. The wheels came from stock, and what's a pair of Smith's three-link couplings cost? 

 

The next item was a bit more at source........

 

 

£2.00 for this older Hornby Pullman body, in quite acceptable nick. It had no bogies - good, because those original ones were ghastly - too deep in the frames (making the cars ride high) and too short.

 

So, £3.50 for a pair of Keen bogies (which are brilliant), a set of wheels/bearings (from stock), a few bits and pieces and some little work on my part. In short, I've ended up with a reasonable 'layout car' for less than £15.00! What's a current Hornby Pullman equivalent cost? Assuming you can get them. 

 

I doubt if I've spent £20.00 on this trio.

 

 

[MJI]

The brake van looks a little short, but it would look fine on the end of a load of minerals.

 

The wagon looks a lot better with weathering.

 

Cheap modelling, well worth it I think.

 

I buy up old Triang coaches and do them up. Dimensionally accurate so worth a go.

 

RMB

 

 

 

 

 

 

[rowanj]

Re weathering, I'm always nervous to tackle new RTR locos, mainly because I'm not very good at it. However I decided I had to do something with  the newly- arrived Hornby "Tyne Dock" 9F. It just looked too shiny and plasticky. For those like me without an airbrush or artistic ability, I find modelling powders ideal, especially if all you want is to tone down the RTR loco. I also find that occassional careful handling means I don't need to seal the powders, so reversal of the process is relatively easy, Anyway, here is my effort at 92097.

[Keith Turbutt]

On 28/09/2023 at 12:54, LNER4479 said:

 I have amassed a fair library of such photos, general colour pix cut out from magazines.

 

 

 

Hi,

You might like to see these from this late steam period - taken by me August bank holiday 1967.

Lancaster - photo snatched from a passing train, we were heading South. Looks like some cleaning on the boiler but not the tender.

 

 

Entering Preston from the South

South end of Preston about the same time of day as the previous photo.

 

[Northmoor]

Tony, you've always expressed the view that there is more pleasure in making something than just opening a box, which I'm sure everyone frequenting this thread would agree with. 

 

But did you know you could have earned a (no doubt enormous) salary by teaching that at one of the most prestigious Universities in the world?  It's called The IKEA Effect, apparently:

https://www.hbs.edu/faculty/Pages/item.aspx?num=41121#:~:text=We show that labor leads,it-yourselfers" and novices.

 

We assign 63% more value to something we've made than an identical item we've just bought, so says Professor Michael Norton (of Harvard University's Department of the Blindingly Obvious).

[JamesSpooner]

In terms of cheap, this was an old Airfix kit that I detailed and converted into one of the later Toad D’s which had the concrete weights added to each end…

 

Nigel

 

[westerner]

Apologies Tony for dropping in another 0gauge snap

D9502 leaving with a full ballast train.

[Steamport Southport]

9 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

I've spent the last day or two indulging in some 'really cheap modelling' projects for BRM.

 

Readers might recall the shot of the ridiculous brake van I showed a few days ago (the one with a chimney pot on the roof!).

 

Well, 

 

 

It looks like this now. Granted, it's not a very-accurate model at source, but that's not the point with regard to this project. It was on sale for 50p (though Elaine gave it to me), and the only thing to cost any more was a decent wheel-set. Odd bits and pieces came from my spares box. 

 

So, an inexperienced enthusiast, with precious little money to spare could (with a bit of work) end up with a brake van which, despite its dimensional shortcomings, might look passable on a layout. 

 

Another 50p acquisition was this.......

 

 

A Hornby PO wagon, minus wheels and coupling.

 

But, with about an hour's work.......

 

I've ended up with this. The wheels came from stock, and what's a pair of Smith's three-link couplings cost? 

 

The next item was a bit more at source........

 

 

£2.00 for this older Hornby Pullman body, in quite acceptable nick. It had no bogies - good, because those original ones were ghastly - too deep in the frames (making the cars ride high) and too short.

 

So, £3.50 for a pair of Keen bogies (which are brilliant), a set of wheels/bearings (from stock), a few bits and pieces and some little work on my part. In short, I've ended up with a reasonable 'layout car' for less than £15.00! What's a current Hornby Pullman equivalent cost? Assuming you can get them. 

 

I doubt if I've spent £20.00 on this trio.

 

 

 

Discussion on the W H Shaw wagons here. Even though that is William Shaw I think they were related.

 

 

 

Jason

Edited September 30, 2023 by Steamport Southport

[jamie92208]

Yes, I've done a bit more digging  and W H Shaw was a colliery owner from Haslingden in Lancashire. He certainly ordered a lot of new wagons in the 1890'so this may well be from later times when his son's were in the business. Perhaps the Huddersfield reference was a Coal merchant company on the other side of the Pennines. 

 

Jamie

[Tony Wright]

7 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

Discussion on the W H Shaw wagons here. Even though that is William Shaw I think they were related.

 

 

 

Jason

Thanks for that, Jason.

 

I approached these 'cheap modelling' tasks in a rather different way than in my own modelling. That is with little prototype research!

 

OK, I established that the Pullman car was in the ER pool during the period it's depicted, but that's about it. 

 

Normally, whenever I build/alter/modify/improve/weather/etc., a model, I have plenty of documentation around my workshop to ensure I get things as 'right' as I can. 

 

 

Hornby's latest P2 'project' is a case in point.

 

However, when conducting my 'doing-up' of these really cheap models, other than consulting the odd photograph (none in the case of the PO wagon!), I approached the work from the position of the 'modeller' bereft in the main of funds and experience. I have (literally) thousands of books to refer to, but the beginner? Yes, there's the internet but some beginners might be like me - ignorant of its potential! 

 

The main point is to encourage folk to have a go, using the cheapest of resources.

 

Resources like these below...........

 

 

A Hornby Pannier tank, bought for £15.00, and a good runner.

 

 

And a Lima 45XX, bought for the same price (the ponies were included), and also a good runner. 

 

All I've eventually done with these is to replace busted parts and tidy them up, 'splashing out' on etched numberplates. 

 

Other than glimpses at prototype pictures, I've done little research into these, even though (believe it or not) I have many reference books on the GWR. 

 

I hope my approach here is not seen as too slapdash, and I'll always advocate doing the prototype research, but I'm not producing stuff to run on my railway here (all the models will be used as prizes eventually). The principal idea is to show that many models can be bought cheaply and, with a little bit of work can be made into 'reasonable' representations of their prototypes. Not only that, but I hope it encourages folk to do some modelling for themselves.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

[GMKAT7]

Good morning Tony,

 

Seeing your Hornby 8751 pannier above prompted me to cross-post (from my own workbench thread) the images below of my two 8751s after a makeover.

 

Both were purchased from Hattons in one of their many sales. They have been detailed by having all moulded handrails removed and replaced with brass wire & handrail knobs. 4630 (LC) has had more tlc, in the fact that I tried to replicate the sanding operating levers at the front end and fit cab rear window grilles. These were again made from brass wire before I was aware of the Riceworks etched brass items. Both have etched brass cab side and smokebox number plates from 247 Developments.

 

Neither have the cab front windows glazed and both still sit on their original chassis. That under 3751 is an okay runner, but 4630 runs like a three-legged dog and needs some work (with a hammer?)

 

They do not stand comparison with my two Bachmann 8750 panniers in terms of detail finesse or running quality. However, both do have the footplate step handrails fitted, which the Bachmann ones don't.

 

These two were my first return to active (rather than armchair) modelling circa 2001. In those 'non-internet at home' days the references were either modelling magazine articles or my Bradford Barton books. Having gloss finished them to fit on the BR emblem/crest I couldn't bear to matt finish or weather them and that's how they have stayed. They are sub-layout locos really but having put the work into them I can't part now.

 

Apologies for the poor iPhone photos.

 

Cheers, Nigel.

[Dunsignalling]

On 29/09/2023 at 09:46, jwealleans said:

 

Diagram 5.  I believe BR built some more for the WR after 1948, so there were LNER horseboxes numbered with a 'W' prefix.   It's a bit late for crimson, isn't it, but I agree that's most likely given the shade the photograph has given it.

 

 

I think the ones built in BR days were Diagram 9, very similar style, but longer.

 

The one in the photo appears to answer to that description.

 

Horse boxes in general seem to have wandered about quite a lot anyway.

 

John

Edited September 30, 2023 by Dunsignalling

[Chas Levin]

On 29/09/2023 at 09:37, 60526 said:

Tony,

This photo from Ben Brooksbank came up on another site this morning and I wonder if it might stir a few memories from your youth. Aside from being at Chester, that ex LNER horsebox looks interesting, I'm no specialist but probably a dirty crimson?

 

 

 

Afternoon all, please excuse me if I've misunderstood, but are you saying 60526 that you think the horsebox is dirty crimson?

 

Comparing it with the visible maroon coaches on left and right sides and with the red(-dish) top of the 'Chester' station sign in the lower right-hand corner, I'd be more inclined to think it was brown. If it was red, why has it darkened so much more than the sign and the coaches?

[cctransuk]

1 hour ago, Chas Levin said:

 

Afternoon all, please excuse me if I've misunderstood, but are you saying 60526 that you think the horsebox is dirty crimson?

 

Comparing it with the visible maroon coaches on left and right sides and with the red(-dish) top of the 'Chester' station sign in the lower right-hand corner, I'd be more inclined to think it was brown. If it was red, why has it darkened so much more than the sign and the coaches?

 

All this 'brown' livery identification in late steam days is getting out of hand!

 

Rail muck was brown; get enough of it on a vehicle that received zero cosmetic attention - such as a horsebox - and it was impossible to identify the livery. I know, 'cos I tried to find out by rubbing through the dirt - to little avail.

 

There is a real danger that it will become an established 'fact' that BR painted stock brown - they didn't, except perhaps for a the short period until crimson paint was made available.

 

CJI.

[Tony Wright]

5 hours ago, GMKAT7 said:

Good morning Tony,

 

Seeing your Hornby 8751 pannier above prompted me to cross-post (from my own workbench thread) the images below of my two 8751s after a makeover.

 

Both were purchased from Hattons in one of their many sales. They have been detailed by having all moulded handrails removed and replaced with brass wire & handrail knobs. 4630 (LC) has had more tlc, in the fact that I tried to replicate the sanding operating levers at the front end and fit cab rear window grilles. These were again made from brass wire before I was aware of the Riceworks etched brass items. Both have etched brass cab side and smokebox number plates from 247 Developments.

 

Neither have the cab front windows glazed and both still sit on their original chassis. That under 3751 is an okay runner, but 4630 runs like a three-legged dog and needs some work (with a hammer?)

 

They do not stand comparison with my two Bachmann 8750 panniers in terms of detail finesse or running quality. However, both do have the footplate step handrails fitted, which the Bachmann ones don't.

 

These two were my first return to active (rather than armchair) modelling circa 2001. In those 'non-internet at home' days the references were either modelling magazine articles or my Bradford Barton books. Having gloss finished them to fit on the BR emblem/crest I couldn't bear to matt finish or weather them and that's how they have stayed. They are sub-layout locos really but having put the work into them I can't part now.

 

Apologies for the poor iPhone photos.

 

Cheers, Nigel.

Good afternoon Nigel,

 

Thanks for showing these. I've certainly not replaced the handrails on the Hornby pannier, though I have painted it black and will fit replacement 'plates for 8729 when they arrive from 247 Developments. Why 8729? It was one of Chester's pet panniers all those years ago, where she could be seen on pilot duty all day long. 

 

One tip, if I may? Seconds with a lick of matt black paint and those bright pick-ups disappear (not where they touch the wheel, of course). 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[melmoth]

2 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Good afternoon Nigel,

 

Thanks for showing these. I've certainly not replaced the handrails on the Hornby pannier, though I have painted it black and will fit replacement 'plates for 8729 when they arrive from 247 Developments. Why 8729? It was one of Chester's pet panniers all those years ago, where she could be seen on pilot duty all day long. 

 

One tip, if I may? Seconds with a lick of matt black paint and those bright pick-ups disappear (not where they touch the wheel, of course). 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

Tony, I know you're not doing so much in the way of prototype research with your excellent examples of refurbishing older models, but 8729 was one of the earlier low-roofed panniers. They were numbered (as far as I can remember):  5700-99, 6700-49, 7700-99, 8700-49.  The later style cabs started with 8750.

[Tony Wright]

2 minutes ago, melmoth said:

 

Tony, I know you're not doing so much in the way of prototype research with your excellent examples of refurbishing older models, but 8729 was one of the earlier low-roofed panniers. They were numbered (as far as I can remember):  5700-99, 6700-49, 7700-99, 8700-49.  The later style cabs started with 8750.

Thanks Jon,

 

A mate has already told me.

 

I'll order some different plates. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Tony Wright]

How about a picture which would rate very highly in the 'most-unlikely' situations?

 

 

A P2 on the loading dock road at Little Bytham.

 

I had some friends round to run the railway yesterday evening, and I'd parked 2003 in this position for them to observe it and pass comment (which they did, favourably). With it still sitting there this evening, I thought I'd take its picture. 

[Tony Wright]

Even though my 'really-cheap' models are not destined to run on Little Bytham, I thought I'd take a couple of pictures with the PO wagon and the brake van featured....

 

 

Between a kit-built LMS van and an ex-Airfix PO wagon, for 50p, some couplings, a set of wheels and weathering - tolerable? 

 

 

Perhaps not so tolerable, even though it was free? 

 

Speaking of really-cheap locos/stock, I visited a show today (and stayed little more than 15 minutes, so little did it interest me - apart from a small N Gauge branch line terminus) where second-hand stuff was anything but cheap. Having bought a new-style Hornby B12/3 (complete with DCC decoder) from Elaine's Trains last weekend for £75.00, I was astonished to see an old-style Hornby B12/3 for almost that! 

 

Obviously, it pays to shop around. 

 

 

Edited September 30, 2023 by Tony Wright
to add something

[t-b-g]

7 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

How about a picture which would rate very highly in the 'most-unlikely' situations?

 

 

A P2 on the loading dock road at Little Bytham.

 

I had some friends round to run the railway yesterday evening, and I'd parked 2003 in this position for them to observe it and pass comment (which they did, favourably). With it still sitting there this evening, I thought I'd take its picture. 

 

Not so unlikely.

 

Cock O'the North once derailed while shunting a horse box in the goods yard at Bawtry.

 

It was on a running in turn on a stopping passenger service and some shunting was needed. The locals reckoned that the ancient track in the yard just gave way under the weight of the loco.

[Tony Wright]

17 minutes ago, t-b-g said:

 

Not so unlikely.

 

Cock O'the North once derailed while shunting a horse box in the goods yard at Bawtry.

 

It was on a running in turn on a stopping passenger service and some shunting was needed. The locals reckoned that the ancient track in the yard just gave way under the weight of the loco.

Thanks Tony,

 

A local enthusiast reports no less than MALLARD getting 'stuck' on a similar running-in turn at Little Bytham - running-in on a pick-up goods, believe it or not. Apparently she was shunting on the Down side (which has the shortest radius point), and got jammed on the point. Another engine was summoned to couple up and shift her! It would seem there was so little 'play' in her driven axles that she got 'stuck'. I think the driver was reluctant to 'open her up' for fear of bending a rod.  Whether the track was damaged, I don't know. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony.