Wright writes.....

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

On 08/10/2023 at 11:02, Pebbles said:

I just find it somewhat ironic that what is essentially a Thompson combination of firebox and boiler, should find itself in a replica Gresley engine.

It's a Doncaster wide firebox boiler design development is the better way to think of it. There's a continuous line of development from the GNR inception of this design series, throughout the LNER group period. This is a characteristic of any successful design.

[Compound2632]

17 hours ago, cctransuk said:

Certainly not with the apostrophe!😀

 

The apostrophe was correct as used by Tony - denoting plurals pertaining to City of London:

• the plural of City of London;
• City of London's plural.

[Steamport Southport]

Also worth considering that Tornado and Prince Of Wales aren't replicas, they are new builds.

 

 

 

Jason

[cctransuk]

2 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

The apostrophe was correct as used by Tony - denoting plurals pertaining to City of London:

• the plural of City of London;
• City of London's plural.

 

I stand corrected - I misread the context.

 

CJI.

[cctransuk]

2 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

Also worth considering that Tornado and Prince Of Wales aren't replicas, they are new builds.

 

 

 

Jason

 

Semantics, I think - would they have been built in their present form if the original had not existed?

 

Newbuild updated replica OK?

 

CJI.

[Steamport Southport]

Just now, cctransuk said:

 

Semantics, I think - would they have been built in their present form if the original had not existed?

 

Newbuild updated replica OK?

 

CJI.

 

How can they be a replica of something that never existed?

 

Is Flying Scotsman a replica of Great Northern?

 

 

Jason

[cctransuk]

1 minute ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

How can they be a replica of something that never existed?

 

Is Flying Scotsman a replica of Great Northern?

 

 

Jason

 

Sorry - don't do silly arguments.

 

CJI.

[Steamport Southport]

4 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

 

Sorry - don't do silly arguments.

 

CJI.

 

it's not a silly argument. 

 

 

Flying Scotsman was the third Gresley A1. It's not a replica of Great Northern. 

 

Tornado is the fiftieth A1. It's not trying to be one of the others. 

 

Likewise Prince Of Wales is the next P2.

 

They are New Builds, not replicas.

 

Rocket and Locomotion are replicas as they are purporting to be the original locomotives.

 

 

Jason

[Compound2632]

30 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

Rocket and Locomotion are replicas as they are purporting to be the original locomotives.

 

That would be fraudulent. They are replicas because they are copies of the originals. 

 

Our models are replicas of the originals, at a small scale, and they incorporate all sorts of compromises such as electric motors to make them effective replicas. The same could be said of full-size new-build locomotives - they are replicas of the locomotives of particular classes but stuffed full of compromises to make them suitable for main line operation.

[maico]

19 hours ago, rowanj said:

My English Master would have insisted that , if you are referring to several versions of a single name/identity e.g CITY OF LONDON, the name remains in the singular and all the various examples are "CITY OF LONDON's"  It was always a good idea to agree with him.

 

Why?  There is no plural possessive form involved. It should be Cities of London...

 

[Compound2632]

5 minutes ago, maico said:

 

Why?  There is no plural possessive form involved. It should be Cities of London...

 

 

"City of London" is the name of the object. Therefore the plural is "City of Londons", as a previous poster has pointed out. But as you say, the apostrophe there is an error.

[maico]

34 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

"City of London" is the name of the object. Therefore the plural is "City of Londons", as a previous poster has pointed out. But as you say, the apostrophe there is an error.

 

To distinguish between a place and a thing it should be City of London locomotives. The man on the top of the Clapham omnibus would look askance at anyone saying "City of Londons" in reference to an object....

[rowanj]

1 hour ago, maico said:

 

To distinguish between a place and a thing it should be City of London locomotives. The man on the top of the Clapham omnibus would look askance at anyone saying "City of Londons" in reference to an object....

I wish I hadn't bothered, and I certainly won't again. The previously mentioned English Master would be appalled by my errant apostrophe, and I can hear him spinning! However, with all due respect to the chap on the Clapham bus, a collection of models of City of London are City of Londons. 

Edited October 9, 2023 by rowanj

[Compound2632]

The London & North Western "George the Fifth"* and "Prince of Wales" classes are an interesting case in point, where the difficulty has always been got round by calling them "Georges" and "Princes". But I appreciate this is a different case to multiple engines of the same name. But "how many City of Londons did the LNWR have?" is a reasonable question, with the answer "two", the name being carried in succession by a Webb Dreadnought and a Whale Experiment, the latter being withdrawn nine years before the name was handed on to the Coronation pacific.

 

*Not "George V" - the class designation followed the nameplate of the eponymous class member.

[Tony Wright]

23 hours ago, cctransuk said:

 

Certainly not with the apostrophe!😀

 

CJI.

Did I get it wrong, John? 

 

I abhor the misuse of the apostrophe.

 

I pointed out to Mo only yesterday as we pulled into the car park of a Premier Inn in Bolton (attending a cousin's funeral, unfortunately) why a sign suggesting (or demanding) NO HGV's needed a possessive apostrophe. 

 

Please, be my guest (all on here as well), If I commit a grammatical blooper then do point it out, and I'll give myself the cane!

 

But please, don't do it for everyone. Some are more-sensitive souls.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Edited October 9, 2023 by Tony Wright
to add something

[Tony Wright]

On 08/10/2023 at 14:59, Pebbles said:

I would like someone to point to any Gresley engine with a 50sq ft grate/firebox mated to a 17ft boiler combination. Gresley used the 17ft boiler on his V2  mated to a 41.25sq ft grate/ firebox. In the case of the A4s a18ft boiler was used; the reduction of 1ft from the 19ft of the A3s being taken up by a 1ft extension of the 41.25sq ft grate/firebox, incorporating a so called combustion chamber. Gresley did used a 18ft boiler on 2006 mated to a 50sq ft, again the reduction from 19ft boiler used on the other P2s being the incorporation of a combustion chamber. The only other instance was the rebuilt W1 which from memory had  a 19ft boiler? mated to a 50sq ft grate/firebox. Gresley paid great attention to fuel economy and it would appear that the experience at top shed retaining/favouring their A3s and A4s with the 41.25sq ft grate/ firebox. bears testimony to this. Fuel economy is not just saving fuel, it means less work for the fireman.

I was specific, a 17ft boiler mated to a 50sq ft grate/firebox was not Gresley.

Good evening,

 

I obviously didn't understand you specification; my apologies, though I thought my point was fair that both the Dia.117 and Dia.118 boilers were derived from Gresley's P2 boiler - just shortened. All were interchangeable, of course.

 

That said, the Thompson boiler had a further-forward round dome (immediately altered after Peppercorn took over), so it was different from the shortened P2 boiler in that respect. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[cctransuk]

8 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Did I get it wrong, John? 

 

I abhor the misuse of the apostrophe.

 

I pointed out to Mo only yesterday as we pulled into the car park of a Premier Inn in Bolton (attending a cousin's funeral, unfortunately) why a sign suggesting (or demanding) NO HGV's needed a possessive apostrophe. 

 

Please, be my guest (all on here as well), If I commit a grammatical blooper then do point it out, and I'll give myself the cane!

 

But please, don't do it for everyone. Some are more-sensitive souls.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

No, Tony - as posted above - on this occasion I misread the context and you were correct; sorry!

 

John Isherwood.

[Pebbles]

2 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Good evening,

 

I obviously didn't understand you specification; my apologies, though I thought my point was fair that both the Dia.117 and Dia.118 boilers were derived from Gresley's P2 boiler - just shortened. All were interchangeable, of course.

 

That said, the Thompson boiler had a further-forward round dome (immediately altered after Peppercorn took over), so it was different from the shortened P2 boiler in that respect. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Tony,

 

I'm most grateful that any misunderstanding has been resolved.

 

Pebbles

[Tony Wright]

3 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

 

No, Tony - as posted above - on this occasion I misread the context and you were correct; sorry!

 

John Isherwood.

Thanks John,

 

Having not long got back from Greater Manchester, I didn't read all the posts before responding.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[MJI]

I find lack of commas annoying, and can cause confusion.

 

The main one is on a few ands, or ors.

 

Missing the one before the and, or the or. Changes the meaning of the sentence .

 

Stations between Birmingham and Bristol include, Worcester, Cheltenham,  and Gloucester.

 

Remove the last comma and it reads like it is one station for the two towns.

[JamesSpooner]

Ah, the Oxford comma.

 

Nigel

[Northmoor]

2 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

I abhor the misuse of the apostrophe.

 

 

But please, don't do it for everyone. Some are more-sensitive souls.

 

I had a manager some years ago who used an apostrophe for every plural.  She was a very intelligent, well-qualified woman in an alpha-male workplace, but since she and I never really "gelled" I decided not to test her sensitivity on this error.

[manna]

G'Day Folks

 

An Apostrophe, is only a Comma, that is above it's station !

 

Terry, Aka manna.

 

[drmditch]

9 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

Rocket and Locomotion are replicas as they are purporting to be the original locomotives.

 

 

Except that they are not!

 

At Locomotion (at present) you can see what remains of the original machines, after quite a lot of interesting technical history!

You can also see the two 'modern'  reconstructions.  'Rocket' has just finished steaming for the winter. 'Sans Pareil' has not been in operation for many years now.

Both locomotives include many alterations in design to allow them to operate safely and legally in our own century.

 

 

Edited October 9, 2023 by drmditch

[cliff park]

I worked with a guy who was so fond of apostrophes that I once saw him use it in his own name.  Let's say his name was Smithers, he wrote it on a form as Smither's, and looked confused when I pointed it out.