Wright writes.....

[Ian Rathbone]

7 hours ago, Michael Edge said:

The LSW C14 has slide valves, outside admission is normal for these. The LMS Garratts definitely had backward leaning return cranks but the valve rod is pinned above the valve spindle rather than below. 

 

 

Another engine that I forgot was Big Bertha which had outside admission hence ‘backward cranks’ and radius rods below the valve rods. It was also unique* in having four cylinders but only two valves.

 

*Unique until proved otherwise.

 

 

 

 

7 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Lovely stuff Ian,

 

Many thanks for showing us.

 

Just so I get this right, for inside admission the return crank leans forward at bottom dead centre, and backwards for outside admission? 

 

Which means I'm right about the LMS Garratts having backward-leaning return cranks, but wrong about the Fowler 2-6-2Ts.

 

Regards

 

True - as far as I know.

 

Ian R

 

 

 

[Chamby]

I use expanded polystyrene or Cellotex board to build up the terrain, sometimes hobby foam board for embankment sides.  

 

I fill any gaps or irregularities with lightweight polyfilla and when this has dried and been sanded smooth, apply a top layer of old fabric (worn out shirts, sheets, denim for example) soaked in diluted PVA.  It dries to a hardened finish that I find is much more durable than plaster or papier mache.  

 

 

Slap on a base coat of paint, then add flock, static grass etc to suit...

 

 

[Mark Laidlay]

1 hour ago, Steamport Southport said:

If you are looking for a guide how to make scenery it's on the video on the right hand side of the screen!

 

 

 

Jason

Specifically light weight scenery for exhibition layouts.  Wall paper paste and paper or pollyfilla seem to be options.

[APOLLO]

To be honest making scenery, retaining walls, bridges, trackwork etc is the part of our hobby I enjoy most. Now I'm up to the roof trusses in the garage with my American O scale. I think thats as far as I can go !! Still plenty to do, freight and pasenger car kits to make, a 1950's half built (by someone else) brass pacific loco to attempt to finish (an ebay bargain), some track to tweak (in awkward places), redo my 5 amp track power properly to eliminate flashes and bangs (I'm a gas engineer, electricity is a little known art). But I'm getting there bit by bit.

 

My OO loft layouts have no proper scenery other than bits of green scenic roll / scatter. But they're industrial grot so not really needed. I just like to run trains, it's a big trainset really. Mostly complete, just ongoing maintainence etc.

 

Main layout above, (North Notts area), Wigan & Ince GC below, the missing bits connect with clip on boards. It all works quite well. The loft is insulated, boarded & carpeted, and a velux window gives some light and ventilation. This layout started in 2000 just before the twins were born and I was evicted from a spare bedroom.

 

 

The gas works - not nearly as good as Mr Denny's Buckingham layout ones which were always an inspiration to me (I have a dog eared copy of the 1960 something Railway Modeller "Denny Special".

Most bits I used are common models / kits etc, easilly identified !!

 

 

 

High to low level junction. Trix illuminated signals.

 

 

Borchester Town (Name pinched from Mr Dyers layouts, another inspirational modeller. Perhaps (to me) the best of all time. The Railway Modeller mag many years ago had articles for layouts like this - "Propiretary Modeller" !!!!!

 

 

Low level Wigan GC layout - Darlington Street Goods.

 

 

I hate winter these days, cold in the garage, not a lot better in the loft, heating expensive, roll on spring !!

 

Brit15

 

 

 

 

 

 

[St Enodoc]

11 hours ago, Mark Laidlay said:

There's extruded foam under the embankment in the photo with chux PVAed (white glue) then paint, it's the next layer to smooth out the finish before applying grass etc. that I need next.

Mark

 

10 hours ago, MarkC said:

In that case, I would still go for the newspaper & wallpaper paste layer, Mark. Indeed, if you add powder paint to the paste, that then saves having to put the base coat on once it's all dried out.

 

Mark

 

10 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

Quite a few people nowadays use "J-Cloths" (or the supermarket own-brand equivalent) over lattice frames woven from narrow strips cut from cereal-box cardboard. Cheap, easy and very light. If the texture shows through just add a layer or two of kitchen-roll paper.

 

If you leave the back open, strength can be maximised by covering both sides of the lattice.

 

Cheap "trade" PVA can be substituted for wallpaper paste; I remember the latter occasionally going mouldy on an unpainted underside in the past, though it may be fully synthetic these days. 

 

I'm not keen on using newspaper covering as the ink can "burn through" some paints. Screwed up balls of it can usefully be employed as  temporary supports while the structure goes off, though.

 

John   

Chux in Australia are the same as J-Cloths in the UK.

 

I've seen exhibition layouts round here that have used Chux soaked in runny plaster, coloured with brown powder paint, rather than PVA. That smooths out and fills the weave more easily, leaving it ready for texturing.

[Steamport Southport]

2 hours ago, lezz01 said:

I must say it looks very good Jason.

Regards Lez.

 

And with that the video has disappeared after being on daily for months!

 

It's the building Little Bytham one. I think if you have "Gold" membership you might not get it.

 

Found it on the other page. Just below Alfred and Judy.

 

[St Enodoc]

3 hours ago, coronach said:

Chicken wire, Blue roll towel and Polyfilla 

Blue roll towel! That takes me back.

[Jol Wilkinson]

18 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

You do realise that is Brian Mosby?

 

 

Jason

 Yes, I have bought from 247  Developments when it was owned by Errol Surman, then Gary Wells and latterly Brian Mosby.

[coronach]

10 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

Blue roll towel! That takes me back.

Learned all my basic scenery construction skills from Mike Cook of York show fame. 

[Captain Kernow]

Basic corrugated cardboard landscape formers:

 

Thinner card glued across:

 

I forgot to take photos of the next stage - putting damp screwed up newspaper with PVA and Polyfilla mix in between the cardboard formers and also the stage after that, forming the surface of the landscape.

 

Top layer of Polyfilla and PVA mix painted on, with some poster colour mixed in:

 

Grass etc. applied:

 

More scenic details etc.:

 

[Not Jeremy]

Excellent, cardboard, paper and PVA, what more does any boy need? Especially the son of a woodwork teacher....

 

Outside I have found steel, concrete and dirt to be excellent substitutes.

 

But my "grass" is anything but static(!)

 

 

 

Happy New Year to all and here's to building more trains!

 

Simon

[Captain Kernow]

4 minutes ago, Not Jeremy said:

Especially the son of a woodwork teacher....

Not that you'd ever know it, looking at my attempts at 'joinery' over the years!

 

[Not Jeremy]

1 hour ago, Captain Kernow said:

Not that you'd ever know it, looking at my attempts at 'joinery' over the years!

 

 

Oh I don't know, I mean look at your wiring....

 

Apologies for that cheap shot, and as I recall Doug and I worked it all out without you that time in Folkestone, towards the end of the last Century.

 

Happy days!

[Tony Wright]

18 hours ago, Ian Rathbone said:

 

 

Another engine that I forgot was Big Bertha which had outside admission hence ‘backward cranks’ and radius rods below the valve rods. It was also unique* in having four cylinders but only two valves.

 

*Unique until proved otherwise.

 

 

 

 

 

True - as far as I know.

 

Ian R

 

 

 

Good afternoon Ian,

 

Yes, I'd also forgotten about Big Bertha.

 

 

I built a DJH kit of it for a customer in Thailand. 

 

 

Geoff Haynes painted it.

 

I got the return crank's angle correct.

 

 

On both sides.

 

 

I also sold one from the collection of the late Brian Lee (it, too, has the correct lean).

 

Who would have thought that this unique loco would be offered RTR? 

 

 

As many who thought that this unique loco would also be offered RTR? 

 

Built from a DJH kit by a friend, it's in as first-steamed condition, with round buffers.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

[gr.king]

22 hours ago, Ian Rathbone said:

 

 

Another engine that I forgot was Big Bertha which had outside admission hence ‘backward cranks’ and radius rods below the valve rods. It was also unique* in having four cylinders but only two valves.

 

*Unique until proved otherwise.

 

 

 

 

 

True - as far as I know.

 

Ian R

 

 

 

I can't bring to mind the loco type, but I feel I've read of another British example of an actually-built four cylinder loco with only two shared valve chests, requiring four piston valve heads on each spindle, possibly combining one pair of inside and one pair of outside admission cylinders.

 

Had Baldwin's persuaded the GCR to take up the offer of their 2-10-2 scheme circa 1913, the only drawing I know of strongly suggests just two sets of valves between the frames for the intended four cylinders, all four being outside the frames working as yoked pairs on just two huge crossheads...

Edited January 5 by gr.king

[DenysW]

On 04/01/2024 at 09:21, t-b-g said:

One of the reasons why Gresley liked the 3 cylinder designs rather than 2 is because the power was applied more evenly to the driving wheels.

At the risk of being an ignoramus, my understanding is that the reason for going to >2 cylinders is that the British loading gauge does not permit outside cylinders > 21.5 " (I'm basing this on a remark made by Churchward at an ICE meeting, Sadly the ICE indexing system has him as Churchyard).

 

So if you need more power than two 21.5" cylinders can supply, you have to chose between 3 and 4 cylinders. Gresley went three. GWR went four. Neither right. Neither wrong.  Both give the possibility of reducing hammer, with four better than three, but at a maintenance price in complexity and lubricants.

[t-b-g]

14 minutes ago, DenysW said:

At the risk of being an ignoramus, my understanding is that the reason for going to >2 cylinders is that the British loading gauge does not permit outside cylinders > 21.5 " (I'm basing this on a remark made by Churchward at an ICE meeting, Sadly the ICE indexing system has him as Churchyard).

 

So if you need more power than two 21.5" cylinders can supply, you have to chose between 3 and 4 cylinders. Gresley went three. GWR went four. Neither right. Neither wrong.  Both give the possibility of reducing hammer, with four better than three, but at a maintenance price in complexity and lubricants.

 

That is quite right but there were a number of very competent heavy freight locos that managed perfectly well with 2 outside cylinders, including the excellent GWR 28xx and Stanier 8F, BR 9F and many more.

 

So 3 or 4 cylinders were not strictly needed to get the power output needed to haul the trains.

 

So my view is that a decision to fit more cylinders, especially on a heavy freight loco, was done for other reasons, such as more even application of that power to the rails. The LNER main line was an interesting one for heavy coal trains and working them between the frequent and fast passenger trains gave the operating department lots of headaches. Getting a heavy coal train moving a bit easier and quicker was a factor that not many routes had to deal with in the same way.

[PMP]

With scenery on Shelfie2 I used MDF trackbed and DAS modelling clay. Topography done with insulation foam landscape carved and then plaster bandage top coat wetted with PVA water mix. Ends up looking like...

 

Edited January 5 by PMP

[APOLLO]

It's interesting to see varying methods of scenery (etc) construction. Lots of usefull ideas.

 

I remember my first attempt with my old TT layout back in the late 60's, Mod Roc (plaster impregnated bandage cloth) was the new wonder material back then. Just crumple up and dampen newspapers, wet the Mod Rock strip and make an absolute mess - loads of fun, happy days !!!!

 

On my loft layout (and a bit in my garage) I use green hanging basket liner strip from Garden Centers, a usefull scenic base material.

 

 

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Garden-Pride-Hanging-Basket-Liner/dp/B087PKMFC2

 

Brit15

[St Enodoc]

2 hours ago, DenysW said:

Sadly the ICE indexing system has him as Churchyard

A grave error. Perhaps to be expected of the ICE, whose expertise is mainly in digging holes then filling them in again.

 

St Enodoc BSc CEng FIMechE

[billbedford]

1 hour ago, APOLLO said:

On my loft layout (and a bit in my garage) I use green hanging basket liner strip from Garden Centers, a usefull scenic base material.

 

 

Do you use bonsai grass seeds with that?

[APOLLO]

22 minutes ago, billbedford said:

 

Do you use bonsai grass seeds with that?

 

Hai !!

 

Brit15

[Tony Wright]

11 hours ago, APOLLO said:

It's interesting to see varying methods of scenery (etc) construction. Lots of usefull ideas.

 

I remember my first attempt with my old TT layout back in the late 60's, Mod Roc (plaster impregnated bandage cloth) was the new wonder material back then. Just crumple up and dampen newspapers, wet the Mod Rock strip and make an absolute mess - loads of fun, happy days !!!!

 

On my loft layout (and a bit in my garage) I use green hanging basket liner strip from Garden Centers, a usefull scenic base material.

 

 

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Garden-Pride-Hanging-Basket-Liner/dp/B087PKMFC2

 

Brit15

Good morning God of the Sun,

 

The lower image shows the stuff I used as part of the basic scenic dressing on Little Bytham. 

 

It was bought from our local garden centre, Waterside, just south of Bourne. With a month's worth of rain falling locally in 24 hours, unfortunately it's no longer beside the water, it's underneath it! 

 

So many local properties have also been swamped...........

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Tony Wright]

Not much more to do, body-wise, on my latest DJH A1...............

 

 

Lots of nice wiggly pipes..............

[coronach]

23 hours ago, Not Jeremy said:

Excellent, cardboard, paper and PVA, what more does any boy need? Especially the son of a woodwork teacher....

 

Outside I have found steel, concrete and dirt to be excellent substitutes.

 

But my "grass" is anything but static(!)

 

 

 

Happy New Year to all and here's to building more trains!

 

Simon

Ah! A garden railway. I grew up with an extensive garden railway built by Dad - coarse scale gauge 0 built through rockeries and alongside lawns at ground level. Proper ballast, Bassett Lowke factory made track with timber sleepers, a liberal coating of creosote so it even smelled like a railway on a hot sunny day. After 50 years, the railway was dismantled and the track is being reused in a garden railway in Trowbridge.