Wright writes.....

[APOLLO]

2 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Good morning God of the Sun,

 

The lower image shows the stuff I used as part of the basic scenic dressing on Little Bytham. 

 

It was bought from our local garden centre, Waterside, just south of Bourne. With a month's worth of rain falling locally in 24 hours, unfortunately it's no longer beside the water, it's underneath it! 

 

So many local properties have also been swamped...........

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

Sorry to hear of the local flooding. We in the NW seem to have been spared the worst of the recent weather.

 

I found that there are varying types & makes of basket liner, some are more "grass like" than others. Garden centres, even places like B&Q etc. Worth looking around.

 

I've never used static grass, but have seen quite excellent such scenery on exhibition layouts.

 

I have used some Woodland Scenics materials, first class products though a tad expensive. 

 

Edited to add - I remember seeing The Gresley Beat layout at the Wigan show some years ago. They used dyed Teddy Bear fur for their embankments. In fact searching the web brought up this interesting thread 

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/forums/topic/178772-teddy-bear-fur/

 

Brit15

 

 

Edited January 6 by APOLLO

[Bernard Lamb]

My last attempt to use basket liner for modelling was sabotaged by Lego. Sadly we lost her last year. Her kidneys could not cope with her tendency to continually eat.

Bernard

 

[Michael Edge]

I'm getting more and more puzzled by Garratt valve gear now. Having established that the LMS Garratts had the return cranks leaning backwards at bottom dead centre (not the LNER U1, they were forward) I looked through Durrant's book about Garratts and found about half and half each way - all have the radius rod pinned above the the valve spindle unles they had slide valves though.

There are two ways to arrange the valve gear on a Garratt, either the front unit in (apparent) forward gear and the hind unit in back gear going chimney first or they can be arranged so that both ends have the radius rod at the bottom of the link going forwards. The LMS ones clearly have the former arrangement looking at photos of them working but the radius rods one the front unit look like back gear and the ones on the hind unit look like forward gear!

It appears that the cylinders and motion were copied (against BP's advice) from the S&D 2-8-0s which also seem to have backwards leaning return cranks.

Is there anyone on here who knows more about valve gears and can enlighten us?

[Re6/6]

A cheaper source than from garden centres. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/334914623228?hash=item4dfa7796fc:g:~9cAAOSwLE5ikNL5&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAA8HuISFuJLXfSq%2BID7MS9zK1WgRi2nI4NXqSoNBcmbHIZf1pTvK1fyPoXlwO%2BKsi%2BpHapwKnSvTNX8T8d35KxivP7iIOgGpch7h%2BWNrcK%2Bx%2FQCiDujPxeSQKZZG8nJpxRclX4700qJXMh7d17ANHIgIEjw8vvzCIDW4VQ%2BGthbQ5GpBLCAv0LuWEkobgswvaHEBVSzmky%2Fku5nJkPpM070mN1WxefHQeH2MiFR7mWp5ewZnUhwUcMNv%2FBdAVVWr9UloO645yPCw5ZYNhfrFcPRDH2XeXKcoc%2F7eoG%2B066lRGFvPbRDoqTVIhpVxLNYJooCg%3D%3D|tkp%3ABk9SR-K06_CbYw

 

Layered (2mm + 4mm and finally 2mm ) static fibres added to the above liner material and fine ground foam and dust on top in places..

[t-b-g]

3 hours ago, Michael Edge said:

I'm getting more and more puzzled by Garratt valve gear now. Having established that the LMS Garratts had the return cranks leaning backwards at bottom dead centre (not the LNER U1, they were forward) I looked through Durrant's book about Garratts and found about half and half each way - all have the radius rod pinned above the the valve spindle unles they had slide valves though.

There are two ways to arrange the valve gear on a Garratt, either the front unit in (apparent) forward gear and the hind unit in back gear going chimney first or they can be arranged so that both ends have the radius rod at the bottom of the link going forwards. The LMS ones clearly have the former arrangement looking at photos of them working but the radius rods one the front unit look like back gear and the ones on the hind unit look like forward gear!

It appears that the cylinders and motion were copied (against BP's advice) from the S&D 2-8-0s which also seem to have backwards leaning return cranks.

Is there anyone on here who knows more about valve gears and can enlighten us?

 

This isn't from any position of knowledge but it occurs to me that if you only have a single reversing lever in the cab, then whichever way the loco is running, you want one set of valve gear in forward mode and the other in reverse. So you would want one set working the opposite way to the other. Making one set "opposite hand" would be one way of doing that. 

[Dunsignalling]

5 minutes ago, t-b-g said:

 

This isn't from any position of knowledge but it occurs to me that if you only have a single reversing lever in the cab, then whichever way the loco is running, you want one set of valve gear in forward mode and the other in reverse. So you would want one set working the opposite way to the other. Making one set "opposite hand" would be one way of doing that. 

 

What he said. I tried to say much the same but it came out as complete gobbledegook. 🙃

[Tony Wright]

4 hours ago, Bernard Lamb said:

My last attempt to use basket liner for modelling was sabotaged by Lego. Sadly we lost her last year. Her kidneys could not cope with her tendency to continually eat.

Bernard

 

Good evening Bernard,

 

The loss of a beloved pet is especially heart-rending (I speak from personal experience!). 

 

So far, even though she's actually walked on Little Bytham, Jilly hasn't settled down to dozing on the hanging basket liner. 

 

I think she prefers .............

 

 

Just being a tart! 

 

She's the one who meets and greets all our visitors, and everyone seems to fall in love with her (even those who profess not to like cats). No one is allowed to see the railway unless they've petted her first. 

 

So many of my railway modelling friends have a great affection for cats.

 

Kind regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

[Tony Wright]

Just the motion to make now on 60126..........

 

 

I always leave making the valve gear to last.

 

She makes a interesting comparison with other DJH A1s I've made in the last couple of years...........

 

 

60157 in middle stage of construction.

 

 

And 60129 before Geoff Haynes painted her.

 

 

And 60158, currently with Geoff Haynes for painting. 

 

 

Edited January 6 by Tony Wright
to add something

[Tony Wright]

6 hours ago, APOLLO said:

 

Sorry to hear of the local flooding. We in the NW seem to have been spared the worst of the recent weather.

 

I found that there are varying types & makes of basket liner, some are more "grass like" than others. Garden centres, even places like B&Q etc. Worth looking around.

 

I've never used static grass, but have seen quite excellent such scenery on exhibition layouts.

 

I have used some Woodland Scenics materials, first class products though a tad expensive. 

 

Edited to add - I remember seeing The Gresley Beat layout at the Wigan show some years ago. They used dyed Teddy Bear fur for their embankments. In fact searching the web brought up this interesting thread 

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/forums/topic/178772-teddy-bear-fur/

 

Brit15

 

 

Good evening Brit 15,

 

Teddy bear fur seems to be a popular choice for 'grassing'.

 

It certainly works well on the Gresley Beat.

 

 

 

 

Even though it's mainly an urban setting.

 

It's also been used on Retford...........

 

 

To great effect. 

 

I think this is mostly Tony Gee's work, but perhaps he'll enlighten us. 

 

Pete Waterman also uses it.

 

 

On his Leamington.

 

 

Apparently, he burns it first!

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

[Michael Edge]

1 hour ago, t-b-g said:

 

This isn't from any position of knowledge but it occurs to me that if you only have a single reversing lever in the cab, then whichever way the loco is running, you want one set of valve gear in forward mode and the other in reverse. So you would want one set working the opposite way to the other. Making one set "opposite hand" would be one way of doing that. 

The vast majority of Garratts had steam reversers but still only a single rod to each end but what’s peculiar about the LMS ones is that they look as though they are in back gear when going forwards  - both ends.

[PMP]

1 hour ago, Tony Wright said:

Good evening Brit 15,

 

Teddy bear fur seems to be a popular choice for 'grassing'.

 

It's also been used on Retford...........

 

 

To great effect. 

 

I think this is mostly Tony Gee's work, but perhaps he'll enlighten us. 

 

Pete Waterman also uses it.

 

 

On his Leamington.

 

 

Apparently, he burns it first!

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

I’m possibly in part responsible for it being on Retford. Around 2010 I’d been doing some limited stuff with Pete W on Leamington, and he gave me a few reasonable sized off cuts to try in 4mm scale on Albion Yard.

Simultaneously I was helping out on Pete Kirmond’s Blea Moor which also used teddy bear fur extensively. I’d used car spray paint and Tamiya spray acrylics on mine and scissors, and recall taking it up to Retford to show Roy J, whom at the time wanted to do the southern end around the flat crossing. At the time John Mcrea was looking at the large grass areas and trying different techniques. Around then the Retford mob visited Leamington to see progress and share ideas etc. John Mcrea either subsequently or simultaneously got into developing his teddy bear fur technique for Retford and demonstrated it on the EMGS stand frequently. I reworked some of the Albion Yard grass with Johns better techniques. Whilst a few of us helped with bits of the large grass areas of Retford, I think I’m correct in saying the core of it was John Mcrea’s work. 

[Dylan Sanderson]

Good evening everyone.

 

I'm on the hunt for some (4) Markits 6' 2" 18 Spoke Driving wheels for my LRM NER G class, but everywhere seems to be out of stock. Does anyone know where I can find some, or if anyone has any surplus to requirements? They're also sold as A2, B1, P2 and V2 driving wheels.

 

I actually need 6' 1.25" for the G class, but these are the closest I can find!

 

- Dylan

[cctransuk]

On 06/01/2024 at 19:00, Dylan Sanderson said:

Good evening everyone.

 

I'm on the hunt for some (4) Markits 6' 2" 18 Spoke Driving wheels for my LRM NER G class, but everywhere seems to be out of stock. Does anyone know where I can find some, or if anyone has any surplus to requirements? They're also sold as A2, B1, P2 and V2 driving wheels.

 

I actually need 6' 1.25" for the G class, but these are the closest I can find!

 

- Dylan

 

OK - I am going to ask the unspoken question to which all potential users of Markits superb products would like to know the answer.

 

Why is it seemingly impossible for any retailer - not least the principal stockist - to obtain reliable stocks of Markits products?

 

Is it that the vast range has simply outgrown the capacity of the proprietor to produce product?

 

If so, is there any plausible reason - beyond stubborness - for the proprietor not to employ sufficient staff in order to boost output?

 

What was the point of developing ever more exquite detailing product - which must have seiously interfered with production of existing product - if there is not the capacity to meet current demand?

 

I can understand that, for an innovative and skilled design engineer, design may be a far more attractive undertaking than mundane product manufacture - in which case, employ someone to do the donkey-work!

 

What astounded me, even years ago before I was declared persona-non-grata by the proprietor, was that I would be engaged in endless chit-chat when calling to place an order. I was given the impression that he had all the time in the world - and I am given to understand that nothing has changed!

 

Now it may be that age and / or ill-health nowadays affects the proprietor's ability to run his business effectively. However, he undoubtedly has on his hands a business of proven and unfulfilled opportunity - the demand is undoubtedly out there.

 

If anyone can provide information which in some way makes sense of this conundrum, or is in a position to persuade the proprietor to make effective changes to the running of Markits, I know for certain that a great many modellers would be extremely grateful.

 

John Isherwood.

Edited January 13 by cctransuk

[t-b-g]

3 hours ago, PMP said:

I’m possibly in part responsible for it being on Retford. Around 2010 I’d been doing some limited stuff with Pete W on Leamington, and he gave me a few reasonable sized off cuts to try in 4mm scale on Albion Yard.

Simultaneously I was helping out on Pete Kirmond’s Blea Moor which also used teddy bear fur extensively. I’d used car spray paint and Tamiya spray acrylics on mine and scissors, and recall taking it up to Retford to show Roy J, whom at the time wanted to do the southern end around the flat crossing. At the time John Mcrea was looking at the large grass areas and trying different techniques. Around then the Retford mob visited Leamington to see progress and share ideas etc. John Mcrea either subsequently or simultaneously got into developing his teddy bear fur technique for Retford and demonstrated it on the EMGS stand frequently. I reworked some of the Albion Yard grass with Johns better techniques. Whilst a few of us helped with bits of the large grass areas of Retford, I think I’m correct in saying the core of it was John Mcrea’s work. 

 

The first experiments in teddy bear fur did indeed follow on from a trip to see Leamington Spa. The first area of "Wolf" fabric came from there. John McCrea then contacted the supplier and obtained a substantial roll.

 

John and I played around with a few techniques, including the heating treatment, which is designed to make the individual strands of fur curl and be less dead straight. One demo, at Glasgow show, resulted in a small fire in John's toolbox but that is another story! We experimented with various colouring techniques and adopted a dry brushing method, using mostly acrylic "Sap Green" but allowing much of the yellow of the fabric to show through. We preferred that to the soaking it in green dye or paint that others have done but that is personal choice and both methods work.

 

John got hold of some dog clippers, along with some upgraded blades, as the ones that came with the clippers became blunt very quickly. He measured out, cut to size and trimmed the fabric and I did the detailing, using cheapo hairspray and a range of different scenic materials to add variety and texture. I can't recall who did the basic colouring. I certainly did some as I can remember coming home with very green fingers but we may have shared that task. The drainage ditches fences, hedges, bushes and old allotment huts were done by me.

 

It was really the start of the "Retford Mob". Roy was making little progress and I had started going over and spending some time with him. He was disheartened and felt that the layout would not progress any further as John Phillips and Geoff Kent had little interest in getting involved. I had said that although I could never replace those two, I would be willing to have a go at some scenic work. I had only just started when John McCrea arrived on the scene and we worked together on the area around the crossing. Gradually, one or two other started coming along and contributing in one way or another and it soon became a regular working session. Out of all of us, I would happily credit John McCrea with having by far the biggest input and he has really achieved a huge amount of progress in the scenic work and in the buildings.  

Edited January 6 by t-b-g
correct typo

[Tony Wright]

1 minute ago, t-b-g said:

 

The first experiments in teddy bear fur did indeed follow on from a trip to see Leamington Spa. The first area of "Wolf" fabric came from there. John McCrea then contacted the supplier and obtained a substantial roll.

 

John and I played around with a few techniques, including the heating treatment, which is designed to make the individual strands of fur curl and be less dead straight. One demo, at Glasgow show, resulted in a small fire in John's toolbox but that is another story! We experimented with various colouring techniques and adopted a dry brushing method, using mostly acrylic "Sap Green" but allowing much of the yellow of the fabric to show through. We preferred that to the soaking it in green dye or paint that others have done but that is personal choice and both methods work.

 

John got hold of some dog clippers, along with some upgraded blades, as the ones that came with the clippers became blunt very quickly. He measured out, cut to size and trimmed the fabric and I did the detailing, using cheapo hairspray and a range of different scenic materials to add variety and texture. I can't recall who did the basic colouring. I certainly did some as I can remember coming home with very green gingers but we may have shared that task. The drainage ditches fences, hedges, bushes and old allotment huts were done by me.

 

It was really the start of the "Retford Mob". Roy was making little progress and I had started going over and spending some time with him. He was disheartened and felt that the layout would not progress any further as John Phillips and Geoff Kent had little interest in getting involved. I had said that although I could never replace those two, I would be willing to have a go at some scenic work. I had only just started when John McCrea arrived on the scene and we worked together on the area around the crossing. Gradually, one or two other started coming along and contributing in one way or another and it soon became a regular working session. Out of all of us, I would happily credit John McCrea with having by far the biggest input and he has really achieved a huge amount of progress in the scenic work and in the buildings.  

Thanks Tony,

 

Yes, of course, I should have credited John as well.

 

I think it's safe to say the 'grassing' was a joint 'mob' effort; a remarkably effective one!

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[t-b-g]

1 hour ago, Tony Wright said:

Thanks Tony,

 

Yes, of course, I should have credited John as well.

 

I think it's safe to say the 'grassing' was a joint 'mob' effort; a remarkably effective one!

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

It is astonishing to me that it is over 20 years since Roy invited over. It is no wonder that remembering exactly who did what and when is a bit hit and miss. Getting involved with Retford was one of the best things that has happened to me in model railway terms and as a group, we always remember that for all his rather strange ways, our little gang is eternally grateful to Roy. Without him and his layout, we may never have formed the long lasting friendships that we now enjoy.

[St Enodoc]

4 hours ago, Dylan Sanderson said:

Good evening everyone.

 

I'm on the hunt for some (4) Markits 6' 2" 18 Spoke Driving wheels for my LRM NER G class, but everywhere seems to be out of stock. Does anyone know where I can find some, or if anyone has any surplus to requirements? They're also sold as A2, B1, P2 and V2 driving wheels.

 

I actually need 6' 1.25" for the G class, but these are the closest I can find!

 

- Dylan

Can't help with stockists but I'd be inclined to go down a size rather than up, if that helps.

[Barry O]

Hmm.. Teddy Bear fur.. well, the late Dave Walker brought its use into the Leeds MRS in the late 1970s. His O Gauge Highland Railway layout  (Laxford Bridge) featured its use. Can't remember if he used it on his OO layouts,

 

It just happened he could get a fair bit of the "fur"  either free or very cheaply. Dave was very, very good with all things "Artisty" and it was a game changer back then.

 

Baz

[Tony Wright]

The latest DJH A1 is now complete..............

 

 

Taken from the 'offside', just to be different. 

 

As this kit approaches its 50th birthday, I still consider it one of the best on the market. 

 

I wonder how many have been built over the decades? I've built over 30, and the one above certainly won't be the last. It used to be the one most-popular with my customers. 

 

Does anyone else have examples of DJH A1s, please?

[Tony Wright]

S&D 2-8-0s were mentioned with regard to their valve gear.............

 

 

This one came from the collection of the late Brian Lee. Certainly outside admission, but it's hard to tell the angle of the return crank on this DJH example. 

 

 

Another DJH example, this time a large-boiler one (builder/painter unknown). 

 

Too hard to tell the crank's angle from this angle. 

 

 

Edited January 7 by Tony Wright
tautology

[St Enodoc]

1 hour ago, Barry O said:

Hmm.. Teddy Bear fur.. well, the late Dave Walker brought its use into the Leeds MRS in the late 1970s. His O Gauge Highland Railway layout  (Laxford Bridge) featured its use. Can't remember if he used it on his OO layouts,

 

It just happened he could get a fair bit of the "fur"  either free or very cheaply. Dave was very, very good with all things "Artisty" and it was a game changer back then.

 

Baz

I don't remember Dave using it on his 00 layouts but wasn't it used on Brent?

[MJI]

Cruelty to teddy bears, not nice.

 

I hope they were eaten and not just skinned.

[richard i]

1 hour ago, Tony Wright said:

I've built over 30

In a year.

surely the number is much greater.

richard 

[Sayajirao]

with respect to valve gears (and everything else to do with steam locos), its all in the BTC publication "Handbook for Railway Steam Locomotive Enginemen" published in 1957. Good quality copies usually available on eBay; I've got a digital copy but it exceeds the maximum permitted file size. Extracted are some of the relevant pages, as always, what is required is good photos with the crank of the loco set at the same position, ie bottom quarter.

Pages.pdf

[t-b-g]

44 minutes ago, MJI said:

Cruelty to teddy bears, not nice.

 

I hope they were eaten and not just skinned.

 

When John McCrea did his teddy bear fur demo at shows, somebody once made a joke about skinning teddy bears in front of a youngster, who was quite upset. So he made a sign that said something like "No bears were harmed in making this display" that went on the stand from then onwards.