Wright writes.....

[LNER4479]

Good morning Tony,

 

In the spirit of 'show and tell' that you actively encourage, but also picking up on recent comments about kitbuilding and the availability of kits, I should like to post this on your thread:

 

What started as an individual locomotive build commission has now evolved to become a joint enterprise between myself and Graeme King to produce a multi-media kit for the GCR/LNER B3 type, hopefully the first of several types using the same boiler. (please note that this picture is using an old K's B2 boiler and tender to show the finished effect. Graeme's resin boiler master is still being worked on.)

 

Yourself and others of course already know quite a bit about this and indeed the test build came along to the recent LB retro event for critical examination. We now feel confident enough to spread the word more widely. More information about the build is on my workbench thread and full details of the kit are being provided on the LNER Forum modelling section https://www.lner.info/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=12925

 

Whilst this is quite niche in the grand scheme of things, at least it is potentially something new in the field of kitbuilding and it has been fascinating to be involved with the process of development thus far.

Edited September 7, 2018 by LNER4479

[Barry Ten]

So, to sum up: those who found the Guy Williams book(s) inspirational did, and those that didn't, didn't. There's nothing in Clive personal anecdote to merit the use of "nonsense"; all he says is that he found it daunting. Presumably he's speaking from honest experience - why wouldn't he?

 

I've just had a look at the book originally mentioned, by the way, and it's straight into "tap 10 BA c/s" type of stuff, from the get-go. If you don't have a pillar drill, find someone who does. You must use a lathe to true-up Hamblings wheels and so on.  It's undoubtedly full of excellent and proven methods but I'd have found it daunting at 34, let alone 14. I did, a couple of years ago, get an engineering-minded friend to give me a tutorial in tapping and dieing, but until then (and I did have metalwork at school) I wouldn't have known where to begin. My dad could take apart and rebuild a Riley engine but I don't know if he could have told me about taps and dies.

 

Lovely locos recently shown, all, by the way.

 

Al

[Lecorbusier]

Well - unless you're using an RTR body - increasingly you do.

 

There was a time, not too long ago, when excellent turned brass chimneys and domes could be had, but sources for these are rapidly drying up.

 

Cast whitemetal and lost wax brass items are available for a fair selection of locos, but they never  - for me at least - have the 'crispness' of a turned brass item.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

Does anyone know if the Perserverence range is likely to re-emerge under different ownership following the death of Chris Parrish ?

[chrisf]

Does anyone know if the Perserverence range is likely to re-emerge under different ownership following the death of Chris Parrish ?

 

Let's hold a seance and find out.

 

Chris

[micknich2003]

I have had no training or an apprenticeship etc, I read a few books and talked to a few people. I bought a small lathe and "Got Stuck In", my first attempt was to turn headless six inch nails, the first results were a mess but like most things in life I evenyually got the "Hang of It". There are many books on lathe work, and for our purpose, when you have read one, you have read them all. I cut my teeth on Len Mason's "Using the Small Lathe", first published in 1963. It speaks of its quility that today it is still in print, it having been reprinted on many occassions.

 Attached picture of an home made driving wheel, a first attempt at such, and still in need of a little fettling. Give it a go, you don't know what you can do until you try.

 

[Jol Wilkinson]

Does anyone know if the Perserverence range is likely to re-emerge under different ownership following the death of Chris Parrish ?

 

 One "Small Supplier" has been in touch with Chris Parrish's family, but it's still too early to know what will happen to the range.

 

Quite a few of the products go back quite a long way and there may not be much - if any - demand for some them. So sorting the wheat from the chaff would by important to anyone taking over the range, whereas disposing of the whole collection, at a reasonable  price will be important to Chris's  family.

[46256]

On the subject of creators of diesels, the late Monty Wells  of the de Havilland club. I created the three car ex GWR railcar set from lima  and Bachmann Collet centre coach....cut and shut indeed, ( MRJ ) only to then find out Worsley models had bespoke etched sides.....oh the glazing...still have palpitations about that now

[46256]

Whilst sending my last post hadn't read of the passing of Chris Parrish, always had a good service from him and have used a number of his products.My sincere condolences to his loved ones

[queensquare]

So, to sum up: those who found the Guy Williams book(s) inspirational did, and those that didn't, didn't. There's nothing in Clive personal anecdote to merit the use of "nonsense"; all he says is that he found it daunting. Presumably he's speaking from honest experience - why wouldn't he?

 

I've just had a look at the book originally mentioned, by the way, and it's straight into "tap 10 BA c/s" type of stuff, from the get-go. If you don't have a pillar drill, find someone who does. You must use a lathe to true-up Hamblings wheels and so on.  It's undoubtedly full of excellent and proven methods but I'd have found it daunting at 34, let alone 14. I did, a couple of years ago, get an engineering-minded friend to give me a tutorial in tapping and dieing, but until then (and I did have metalwork at school) I wouldn't have known where to begin. My dad could take apart and rebuild a Riley engine but I don't know if he could have told me about taps and dies.

 

Lovely locos recently shown, all, by the way.

 

Al

 

Hi Al, nonsense was a little strong and I apologies if any offence caused. However its the idea that reading or looking at something that is far better than you can personally achieve is some how off putting that I don't understand. If that were the case I would never have played football, picked up a guitar or built a locomotive for that matter - all of which I am, or in the case of football was, pretty average at. 

For years I entered the 2mm Associations most prestigious competition, The Groves for best loco built that year. Each year I knew that if Greenwood, Brownlee, Watson et el had entered I wouldn't come close but it inspired me to try harder next time, not give up. I did eventually win it - last year and with a diesel!!

 

Jerry

[St Enodoc]

Whilst sending my last post hadn't read of the passing of Chris Parrish, always had a good service from him and have used a number of his products.My sincere condolences to his loved ones

I hadn't heard either and it is sad news. i first met Chris during his brief stint as General Manager at the Bluebell and then later at Puffers in Kenton. Rest in peace Chris.

[Barry Ten]

Hi Al, nonsense was a little strong and I apologies if any offence caused. However its the idea that reading or looking at something that is far better than you can personally achieve is some how off putting that I don't understand. If that were the case I would never have played football, picked up a guitar or built a locomotive for that matter - all of which I am, or in the case of football was, pretty average at. 

For years I entered the 2mm Associations most prestigious competition, The Groves for best loco built that year. Each year I knew that if Greenwood, Brownlee, Watson et el had entered I wouldn't come close but it inspired me to try harder next time, not give up. I did eventually win it - last year and with a diesel!!

 

Jerry

 

Hi Jerry

 

I guess there are degrees of "off-putting", which we all relate to differently. I've always been inspired by the highest quality modelling, yours included (on many occasions) but on a practical level there are hand-holds that help us get to where we want to be (or closer) and some which are maybe pitched at a bit too high a level to be of any real value at the stage we're at. To pick up one of your examples, I've also been studying guitar for many years, but it's only now that I can start to get much use out of some of the random books and music sheets that have come my way over the years. And hey. this morning I just tackled a classical piece that I would have shrunk away from in abject terror only a few years ago, because it was in E! Can't kick a ball to save my life, though.

 

I suppose my relationship with loco building is quite narrow in that (so far) it's solely been based around kits, either as complete entities, or to go under an RTR body. I've never had to fret out a brass chassis or turn a boiler casting. Maybe one day I'll give it a go, though, and perhaps then I'll turn to the Guy Williams book and find something of value in there. I'm not (i hope) knocking the book at all; I read it once when I bought it, then again a few months ago, and I can see its worth, and the modelling inside is gorgeous. I suppose my "irrelevant to 99%" comment was a bit flippant and an over-generalisation. On a practical level, though, the books that have held my hand - and convinced me I could have a go  - were those of Wright, Rice and Shackleton, with a strong emphasis on the former. With Tony's writings I could see that, other than a reamer or two, the necessary tools were at my disposal, so the only thing holding me back from loco building was confidence.

 

Al

 

(edited for punctuation)

Edited September 7, 2018 by Barry Ten

[Headstock]

I certainly found the Guy Williams book very inspirational. I was lent it by my mentor (Peter Sykes, of the Manchester MRC), an experienced scratchbuilder who had a lathe and a pillar drill. I must have been 18 or 19 at the time and just contemplating my first forays into kit or scratchbuilding.

 

A few years later I built this:

 

IMG_0065_LR.jpg

She entered service in 1987 and, other than a replacement motor / gearbox (the Anchoridge D13 gave up the ghost), continues to give faithful service as a 'layout loco' to this day. She was built without the use of a lathe or a pillar drill. A 12v hand held mini drill was all that was acquired specially.

 

30 years on, I still don't have a lathe and a pillar drill. Meanwhile, the 12v hand held drill is still giving sterling service. I guess we're all inspired by different things and figure our own individual ways of doing things we like doing.

 

The valve gear looks fantastic, I assume it was scratch built?

 

Good morning Tony,

 

In the spirit of 'show and tell' that you actively encourage, but also picking up on recent comments about kitbuilding and the availability of kits, I should like to post this on your thread:

 

33a_finished.JPG

What started as an individual locomotive build commission has now evolved to become a joint enterprise between myself and Graeme King to produce a multi-media kit for the GCR/LNER B3 type, hopefully the first of several types using the same boiler. (please note that this picture is using an old K's B2 boiler and tender to show the finished effect. Graeme's resin boiler master is still being worked on.)

 

Yourself and others of course already know quite a bit about this and indeed the test build came along to the recent LB retro event for critical examination. We now feel confident enough to spread the word more widely. More information about the build is on my workbench thread and full details of the kit are being provided on the LNER Forum modelling section https://www.lner.info/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=12925

 

Whilst this is quite niche in the grand scheme of things, at least it is potentially something new in the field of kitbuilding and it has been fascinating to be involved with the process of development thus far.

 

Wow, that looks fantastic as well, if you and you team progress to the B7, where do I sign up?

[LNER4479]

The valve gear looks fantastic, I assume it was scratch built?

 

 

Wow, that looks fantastic as well, if you and you team progress to the B7, where do I sign up?

Thanks Andrew!

 

Yes, the Princess is scratchbuilt - including the valve gear. Here is a closer picture:

 

I'm having to remember what I did as it was 30 years ago! I recall that Peter (Sykes) gave me a lump of 1/8th steel to make the motion out of(!) In my naivety, and without recourse to a lathe or pillar drill, each part was cut and filed down to shape by hand. Not so sure I'd do that these days! The cylinder, slidebars and crosshead arrangement all closely follows the Guy Williams techniques as I had no other knowledge of how to make such parts in those days. But it does at least convey a certain chunkiness that is all too often missing from RTR offerings. Being super-critical, I think that either the expansion link pivot point is a little low or that the expansion link is too long - the little end of the eccentric rod is too low to my eye (more obvious when the rods are bottom centre.

 

Re the B7 by all means PM me with your contact details; I'll make a note for now of your interest.

Edited September 7, 2018 by LNER4479

[Headstock]

Thanks Andrew!

 

Yes, the Princess is scratchbuilt - including the valve gear. Here is a closer picture:

 

IMG_0068_LR.jpg

I'm having to remember what I did as it was 30 years ago! I recall that Peter (Sykes) gave me a lump of 1/8th steel to make the motion out of(!) In my naivety, and without recourse to a lathe or pillar drill, each part was cut and filed down to shape by hand. Not so sure I'd do that these days! The cylinder, slidebars and crosshead arrangement all closely follows the Guy Williams techniques as I had no other knowledge of how to make such parts in those days. But it does at least convey a certain chunkiness that is all too often missing from RTR offerings. Being super-critical, I think that either the expansion link pivot point is a little low or that the expansion link is too long - the little end of the eccentric rod is too low to my eye (more obvious when the rods are bottom centre.

 

Re the B7 by all means PM me with your contact details; I'll make a note for now of your interest.

 

Amazing work, we railway modelers are such a lazy lot these days.

 

PM sent.

[micknich2003]

So, to sum up: those who found the Guy Williams book(s) inspirational did, and those that didn't, didn't. There's nothing in Clive personal anecdote to merit the use of "nonsense"; all he says is that he found it daunting. Presumably he's speaking from honest experience - why wouldn't he?

 

I've just had a look at the book originally mentioned, by the way, and it's straight into "tap 10 BA c/s" type of stuff, from the get-go. If you don't have a pillar drill, find someone who does. You must use a lathe to true-up Hamblings wheels and so on.  It's undoubtedly full of excellent and proven methods but I'd have found it daunting at 34, let alone 14. I did, a couple of years ago, get an engineering-minded friend to give me a tutorial in tapping and dieing, but until then (and I did have metalwork at school) I wouldn't have known where to begin. My dad could take apart and rebuild a Riley engine but I don't know if he could have told me about taps and dies.

 

Lovely locos recently shown, all, by the way.

 

Al

Barry, can you drill a hole? Of course you can, can you thread a screw into a matching nut? Of course you can, and therefore with a few minutes practise you can tap a thread. Just give it a try.

[brack]

To be honest, I tread the opposite path here - I'm younger than many here (mid 30s) and started building plastic kits, then scratch building in plastic (my main interests tend towards narrow gauge, especially 18" gauge, colonial and industrial with a smattering of light railways and Irish minor lines - there isn't much alternative to building your own!), 6 years ago I taught myself CAD and produced several 3D printed locos which have sold fairly well. I've used the royalties from those designs to purchase a small pillar drill and a unimat and I built myself a RSU. My idea is that I can become a "real modeller" eventually - the motivation to move into metalwork is mainly due to the material properties - I can 3d print a chassis block with custom gearbox, but I can't always get parts thin enough and in a small prototype having 0.3mm thick NS frames can make a huge difference compared to 1.2mm printed plastic. I am happy using plastic, resin or whatever for bodywork, but sometimes metal is easier to shape and bend - I don't ever see myself as working to the standards of Guy Williams or others because I simply don't desire to. Everyone has a level of detail/finish that satisfies what they're trying to achieve.

 

There were articles in the more high brow modelling press that I looked at when younger and thought the subject matter was a mile over my head and out of my league. There's still stuff like that now, but hopefully a bit less of it as my rudimentary skills improve. The fact that I don't get much from a given book or article is not necessarily any reflection on the writer, but whether or not the techniques and content illustrated tally with what I want to do, have the resources for and aren't too far beyond my current abilities. I'm sure there are those who may have read a few of the words I've had published on CAD/3D printing and felt it to be somewhat beyond them or irrelevant to their modelling.

 

Having said that, when I bought a set of taps/dies it did surprise me how useful they were and how easy it was.

[mullie]

Having made the move to EM at the start of the year progress has been slow but enjoyable. A small test piece has been built and everything you see in the photos is either kit built (rolling stock), scratch built (buildings) and I suppose the track has been built from scratch too as it is all from PCB components. Running trials started tonight and are promising.

 

 

 

Couplings are 3mm S&W mark 1 modified for auto uncoupling.

 

Like many on here I use a combination of kits, scratch building and rtr. Next job is to convert some more wagons to EM and fit new couplings. Being a small layout it won't need many, the next batch will be a combination of Bachmann and kits as I'm keen to get more stock up and running quickly.

 

I have a Bachmann J72 on a Comet chassis very close to completion as well though there will be a lot of detailing to do modelled on one of the Ipswich J72s ( a BR built example I believe) though photos seem scarce.

 

Hope this is of interest.

 

Martyn

[Clive Mortimore]

Sorry but to dismiss the book  just because you didn't have a basic tool kit at age 14 is just nonsense

 

Jerry.

"Nonsense" because the book was overwhelming and daunting to a 14 year old without a basic tool kit. When has a lathe been a basic tool?

[Barry Ten]

Barry, can you drill a hole? Of course you can, can you thread a screw into a matching nut? Of course you can, and therefore with a few minutes practise you can tap a thread. Just give it a try.

 

Hi Mick - I can do it now, in fact I think I had to tap a thread on one of the last locos I built. But I couldn't do it before my pal (an aeromodeller, but with a professional 

engineering background) took the time to give me a demo in his workshop. In fact the job we did was modifying a chunk of aluminium so it could be bolted to a

telescope - heavy duty stuff! Lots of stuff is straightforward when you've seen the right person do it.

[Theakerr]

Re all the talk about reading books I have read a lot about soldering and learnt a lot through the burnt finger school.  What I don't think I have ever seen covered in books is unsoldering.  Today I tried a product I had seen on the shelf of a local electronics store and decided to buy it on the basis that 'it might come in useful someday'.  Specifically, 'Superwick'.  I had decided to take a couple of bushings out of a frame I made 30 years ago.   In those days I wasn't very proficient at soldering and tended to make up for it by using excess amounts of solder.  I have removed similar bushings in the past and what a mess including bent frames, other bits coming unsoldered etc.   

with this Superwick the monstrous solder blob was just sucked up into the wick and on one side the bush just fell out.   

[Red Devil]

Having made the move to EM at the start of the year progress has been slow but enjoyable. 

 

Pretty much the same story from me, although I'm messing about with track, quite pleased with how this is progressing though.

Sublime to the ridiculous next though, A rebuild of a Wills K3, purchased for the princely sum of £28, as per others because I like building 'stuff'

 

[Jol Wilkinson]

Clive,

 

when GW wrote that first book, small scale model making was quite different. What he wrote about wasn't an unusual approach if you wanted to create really good models, because the kits that we are now used to hadn't been developed. I think that the expertise in using plastics that you use was also something something largely in the future.  

 

Although I have his books, including the later WSP ones, I found Iain Rice's books more approachable and relevant to creating models from kits when I got back into making small scale model railway locos. That doesn't mean that Guy William's writing and model making wasn't inspirational, but that finding some shortcuts, such as using/adapting etched kits, provided a way forward. So while all my models are kit built some are quite "modified", employing the sort of techniques GW and others of his time would have used.

 

Jol

[Theakerr]

Last night I watched a series of videos on U-Tube showing Kings Cross and North in 1961, 62 and 63.  What a variety of coaches behind all kinds of locos and trains including a couple of A4's with headboards in 1963.  I had sort of understood that by 1961 most and certainly by 1963 all coaches were Maroon except on the backwaters.  Not at all, one video showed an A4 with a headboard leaving kings Cross in 1963 and the first coach was a Rhubarb and Custard Gresly brake.   Overall, in 1961 probably 40% of the coaches behind what I will call express (A4, A3 etc) or semi fast locos (B1, K3 etc) were still rhubarb and custard.  In 1963 the % had shrunk but was still significant.  I was also struck by how many Gresley wooden coaches were still running, especially brake vans.  There did not seem to be as many Thompsons but my ability to recognise a Thompson is a bit limited.  All this makes me feel a bit better because my time period is 55 to 59 but have extended it to 62 so that I can run Deltics and I have a mixture of Gresleys, Thompsons and Mark 1s in Rhubarb and Custard, lined maroon and unlined maroon.

[EHertsGER]

I am definitely curious to have a read now ..... luckily I have Tony's videos and some successful (in my eyes) kits under my belt, so it definitely won't deter me from making models. From a brief skim I thought it might give some pointers for a little off piste detailing to personalise future kits.

 

Well if my experience is anything to go by, it is the single fundamental treatise on locomotive construction. Everything he says is based on experience and proven by many models. Yes, it may look like hard work - it took me almost twenty years to get the courage up to have a go, but go I did and have not looked back. Actually, I have, because every now and again I get ‘stuck’, so reach for this book and it gets me ‘unstuck’.

 

The practice set out is straightforward, but it is missing one essential component that nobody, not even Guy Williams himself could teach you. That would be confidence with your tools and materials. Success in any skill depends on practice, so go ahead and fail, as they say. But first sit down and read. A glass of something might be helpful. It will be a rewarding break.

Edited September 8, 2018 by EHertsGER

[polybear]

Having said that, when I bought a set of taps/dies it did surprise me how useful they were and how easy it was.

 

 

Ah yes....but wait until you've had the pleasure of snapping a Tap off flush in a job you've been working on for the last 6 months 

 

I have removed similar bushings in the past and what a mess including bent frames, other bits coming unsoldered etc.   

with this Superwick the monstrous solder blob was just sucked up into the wick and on one side the bush just fell out.   

 

Just in case you're unaware (or anyone else reading this), if you dip the end of the wick in a paste flux first (never tried it with liquid flux) it positively hoovers the solder up.  And it's not only useful for desoldering, but also for removing excess solder in order to make a joint a lot neater,  HTH

Edited September 8, 2018 by polybear