Wright writes.....

[Tony Wright]

1 hour ago, t-b-g said:

I know nothing about SR carriages. So I will ask the question, rather than suggest that it is wrong. Did the SR really offset the 1 for first class to the side but put the 3 for 3rd class in the middle of the door?

 

 

Tony,

 

According to Steven-Stratten's drawings and the pictures I've consulted, 'yes'. But, only on the corridor side! 

 

Ah, those carriage-picking joys.

 

Good to see you yesterday, given the circumstances. And, I can't really believe you've ever sworn!

 

I was most intrigued by the conversation about 'destroying' models which weren't working out, and of the great Mr Jackson's crumpling up of a carriage when things weren't going well. Everyone else at our table admitted smashing something up after construction was failing - to be fair a JIdenco brake van, so nothing surprising about that! In my case, it was a K's ROD 2-8-0, which, like an idiot, I tried to make work with a K's chassis, K's wheels and a K's motor. It stuck, momentarily, in the plaster after I hurled it at a wall! Did it work afterwards? I doubt it, because the lot went in the bin (not the body, though, which I then made a proper chassis for with Romford drivers and a decent motor). 

 

Anyone else got tales of 'losing their temper'?

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Tony Wright]

1 hour ago, Clive Mortimore said:

I have one prototype that has escaped the notice of Heljan

Lion a plastic card special. Hornby bogies. 

 

DP2, a very early conversion from a Lima Deltic, and looks better than the Heljan model.

 

Kestrel, my second scratchbuilt loco, one night at the Witham club it hauled 32 coaches ( we ran out of them) at a scale 60 mph on a undulating track with loads of curves. Twin Hornby ringfield motors, and tow lumps of metal in the body. I scraped this model following cab damage by one of my kids and it didn't fit my modelling period.

 

10800, Hawk in company with five scratch built BTHs, four by me and the one needing its bogie sides by Robin Idle. You should see Robin's 3mm models, they are wonderful. Hawk is waiting a repaint to Sherwood Green and the application of some terrific transfers stating it is a departmental locomotive by John of Cambridge Custom Transfers.

'DP2, a very early conversion from a Lima Deltic, and looks better than the Heljan model'

 

With the greatest of respect, Clive, I beg to differ......................

 

.

[The Johnster]

Looks better than the Hornby Dublo, though...

[Hitchin Junction]

I always notice the internal reflecting edges of cast plastic windows. I think it's a manufacturing/cost issue to make windows that way. Some really good hand-made models don't seem to have the same problems.

 

Tim

[Clive Mortimore]

55 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

'DP2, a very early conversion from a Lima Deltic, and looks better than the Heljan model'

 

With the greatest of respect, Clive, I beg to differ......................

 

.

The Heljan model has too wider a nose, no tapering turn under on it. It looks like the Jimmy Durante of the diesel world. It is just 'orrid. It was the last model I pre-ordered, I was so disappointed with it.

[cctransuk]

10 minutes ago, Clive Mortimore said:

The Heljan model has too wider a nose, no tapering turn under on it. It looks like the Jimmy Durante of the diesel world. It is just 'orrid. It was the last model I pre-ordered, I was so disappointed with it.

 

It has to be said, though, that your Lima DELTIC / DP2 has more than a hint of 10100 about the bonnet area - a little too rectangular / boxy?

 

The Heljan DP2 looks sufficiently like the prototype for me - until something better is forthcoming, at least.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[Clive Mortimore]

1 hour ago, Tony Wright said:

Clive,

 

According to Hornby's literature and the other books I've just consulted, they were built for 'outer-suburban' work. That's why they were all-door in their construction. The last of their kind in the UK with regard to gangwayed stock. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Hello Tony

 

From Mike King's excellent book on Southern Coaching stock , "Sets 963-80 (the short all door coaches) entered traffic between November 1945 and April 1946, 981-4 ( the long all door coaches) in June and July 1946: all were then employed on Waterloo-West of England services."

 

Well Network South East considered Exeter as part of its suburban area.

[glo41f]

I too noticed the prismatic effect of the windows on the Hornby coach. I suppose it could be neutralised by painting the window edges black which would involve dismantling the whole thing something which may not be easy. As some Bullieds were transferred to the ER  might we be see one in the trains that rush through LB?

 

I was pleased to learn that the Great Roy J was given an excellent send off. I only met him once but followed his writings and doings avidly. Dunwich remains up there with my all time great layouts. He will be missed in our community.

 

Some super diesels being shown here. However they will never replace the steam locos in my affections though I have to say as models they often run a lot better than the "steam" outline types.

 

Yesterday I was privileged to go to a session where only M&GN Locos and stock were operated in 7mm. It really showed the value of modelling in that it was possible to envisage the lovely gorse yellow locos hauling trains through the fields of Norfolk all those years ago. Surprising the number of modellers following the old line.

 

Martin Long

 

 

[5050]

1 hour ago, Tony Wright said:

 Everyone else at our table admitted smashing something up after construction was failing - to be fair a JIdenco brake van, so nothing surprising about that!

Ah, but to be fair, it was retrieved from the bin, recussitated (spelling?!) ie - bent back into some sort of shape and the sad remains (well, 80% of them anyway) cobbled into something else.  I had, after all, spent good money on it 20 or more years earlier!  I've lived in Yorkshire to long to be thought of as a wastrel, tha' knows.

[Tony Wright]

44 minutes ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Hello Tony

 

From Mike King's excellent book on Southern Coaching stock , "Sets 963-80 (the short all door coaches) entered traffic between November 1945 and April 1946, 981-4 ( the long all door coaches) in June and July 1946: all were then employed on Waterloo-West of England services."

 

Well Network South East considered Exeter as part of its suburban area.

Clive,

 

While I would never question about anything of Mike King's work, many of these carriages ended up as 'loose' stock, and would have been used on shorter-distance services (Waterloo-Basingstoke?). I think you're right, though, I don't think they qualify entirely as 'suburban' carriages. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Tony Wright]

1 hour ago, The Johnster said:

Looks better than the Hornby Dublo, though...

But is that saying much?

[CUTLER2579]

3 hours ago, Clive Mortimore said:

I have one prototype that has escaped the notice of Heljan

Lion a plastic card special. Hornby bogies. 

 

DP2, a very early conversion from a Lima Deltic, and looks better than the Heljan model.

 

Kestrel, my second scratchbuilt loco, one night at the Witham club it hauled 32 coaches ( we ran out of them) at a scale 60 mph on a undulating track with loads of curves. Twin Hornby ringfield motors, and tow lumps of metal in the body. I scraped this model following cab damage by one of my kids and it didn't fit my modelling period.

 

10800, Hawk in company with five scratch built BTHs, four by me and the one needing its bogie sides by Robin Idle. You should see Robin's 3mm models, they are wonderful. Hawk is waiting a repaint to Sherwood Green and the application of some terrific transfers stating it is a departmental locomotive by John of Cambridge Custom Transfers.

 

Now Clive, whilst your under attack I might as well join in. 

 

4005 BRCW prototype D0260 "Lion" in white livery with 5 gold stripes

 

 

 

[Tony Wright]

1 hour ago, Clive Mortimore said:

The Heljan model has too wider a nose, no tapering turn under on it. It looks like the Jimmy Durante of the diesel world. It is just 'orrid. It was the last model I pre-ordered, I was so disappointed with it.

I take your point, Clive, up to a point,

 

However, just a few observations. 

 

Though I heartily encourage folk to show what they've made themselves (it's always much more interesting to me than RTR), might I advise caution with some of your statements, please?

 

To claim something one has made oneself is 'better' than another model is at best naive and in some ways unwise. Where is your evidence? Is it more accurate (not just in the nose profile)? is it painted better? Does it run better? And so on and so on. Unless all those questions are answered with an emphatic 'yes!', then your assertion is questionable. Looking at the two, I know my opinion. That said, the one you've made is much more personal, and meritorious because of that.

 

I'd never be so daft as call anything I've made 'better' than an RTR equivalent. Oh no, far too much evidence would be required. I might assert that my locos will pull more (and they do - they're heavier!) and that they're more robust (the duel with the Duette proved that), but 'better' overall? Hmm. 

 

What they are (like yours) are much more personal (even if some of them are painted by others) and are examples of my own model-making; not something made in far-off Asia (however good) and not the work of others. The last-mentioned two are just possessions, desirable or not.

 

Anyway, a few more diesel pictures. 

 

 

 

This was Stoke Summit's DP2. When We needed a host of diesels for Stoke diesel-mode, I asked The Alton Model Centre to do this basic conversion for me. Son Tom then detailed it, fitted Ultrascale replacement wheelsets and weathered it. It's a modified Lima Deltic with brass overlays (from where?). Obviously it's too short, but it did for what we needed. 

 

Speaking of Lima Deltics...................

 

 

Tom did this'modification', using a pair of Lima Class 37 motors/bogies, various detailing bits, fitted SE Finecast flush-glazing, repainted/weathered it, and packed it with as much lead as could be accommodated. The result? A loco for which we cannot find out how much it will pull. At over 50 carriages, any train 'implodes' on the end curves on LB. He wrote about this in the 'Student Modeller' section of the RM, some years ago. 

 

As for DELTIC itself?

 

 

This is mine. Made/modified some 40 years ago, using a Kitmaster body and a modified Lima chassis. Certainly not as good as the Bachmann RTR equivalent, but 'mine' in a unique way. 

 

Could this below be the 'ultimate' DELTIC?

 

 

Tom started this some 15 years ago (in his early-20s), the intention being for it to run on Retford in EM for Roy Jackson. Without being disparaging to a deceased friend, when 'sums' were mentioned, the commission rather petered out. Thus, it's lain rather moribund for the last dozen or so years. It, too, has a Kitmaster body (much-detailed - much more than mine), but the mechanism is something else! It's powered by two (yes two!) Mashima O Gauge motors, driving every wheel through a scratch-built tower/bogies, the power being transferred via neoprene UV joints, thence via lay-shafts and Romford gears - all accommodated in a scratch-built set of frames in substantial brass section. Twin flywheels ensure smooth-running, and the tower moves from side to side on curves. He made masters in brass for the bogie sideframes, which a mate made a mould from and cast them in resin. 

 

Haulage capacity? We have no idea. After 60 carriages were whisked round Retford, we gave up adding more, because, even on Retford's very-generous end curves, the mighty train was becoming unstable. 

 

Will he finish it? I hope so. It can easily be converted to OO (it was built in the 'narrow gauge' originally to be tested on Stoke Summit). 

 

One more diesel..................

 

 

Another Stoke Summit diesel-mode loco, this time a Class 46. It stated off as a Palitoy Class 45, and I fitted buffer beams to the bogies and altered it to a Class 46. I detailed it, painted it and weathered it. I should have flush-glazed it. 

 

None of these locos runs on LB (apart from my prototype DELTIC), but I keep them as curiosities if nothing else. I'd never (in a million years) claim that any of these are better than RTR equivalents (but Tom's DELTIC really is something). All I'd say is (apart from Tom's DELTIC) they're 'mine'. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony.  

 

 

Edited June 28, 2019 by Tony Wright
to clarify a point

[The Johnster]

In Clive’s defence, his DP2 looks better than a Lima Deltic as well.  But, no, the HD, to be fair originally in the catalogue as ‘Diesel Electric Co-Co Locomotive’ with no other description and not described as a Deltic until it appeared as ‘Crepello’, was not much to write home about...

Edited June 28, 2019 by The Johnster

[Tony Wright]

30 minutes ago, CUTLER2579 said:

 

Now Clive, whilst your under attack I might as well join in. 

 

4005 BRCW prototype D0260 "Lion" in white livery with 5 gold stripes

 

 

 

Clive 'under attack'? 

 

Whenever one puts one's work on display, one should expect (and encourage) constructive criticism.

 

If one sticks one's head 'above the parapet', expect to be 'shot at'! Of course, one can always 'shoot back'!

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Clive Mortimore]

43 minutes ago, CUTLER2579 said:

 

Now Clive, whilst your under attack I might as well join in. 

 

4005 BRCW prototype D0260 "Lion" in white livery with 5 gold stripes

 

 

 

Google "Lion Diesel locomotive", click on images and count five gold stripes. I just did.

 

By the way it is the livery is Ivory, the photo has come out whiter than the model. Lion wasn't white was modelled by Heljan.

 

The model might not be perfect but my research is the best I can do.

[96701]

Go on then. I'll stick my head above the parapet. starting with a resin bodied Clayton:

Glazed with Craftsman (I think)  and cast my own lead weight to go above the Black Beetle. Now that I have a Dremel, it will be easier to lower one end to match the other.

[Clive Mortimore]

49 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

I take your point, Clive, up to a point,

 

However, just a few observations. 

 

Though I heartily encourage folk to show what they've made themselves (it's always much more interesting to me than RTR), might I advise caution with some of your statements, please?

 

To claim something one has made oneself is 'better' than another model is at best naive and in some ways unwise. Where is your evidence? Is it more accurate (not just in the nose profile)? is it painted better? Does it run better? And so on and so on. Unless all those questions are answered with an emphatic 'yes!', then your assertion is questionable. Looking at the two, I know my opinion. That said, the one you've made is much more personal, and meritorious because of that.

 

 

Regards,

 

Tony.  

 

 

I was expressing an opinion not claiming anything. But only certain people are allowed opinions.

[Clive Mortimore]

3 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

'DP2, a very early conversion from a Lima Deltic, and looks better than the Heljan model'

 

With the greatest of respect, Clive, I beg to differ......................

 

.

You say "I beg to differ...." then post photos of two Lima Deltic conversions.

 

My DP2 pre dates the A1 conversion Tom used. Doesn't make it any better but for myself it was a massive learning exercise in model making.

[96701]

Damn you all! You've now made me buy a second hand 03 and a Silver Fox 07! Another one to put in the pile.

[Tony Wright]

20 minutes ago, Clive Mortimore said:

I was expressing an opinion not claiming anything. But only certain people are allowed opinions.

Clive,

 

'DP2, a very early conversion from a Lima Deltic, and looks better than the Heljan model'.

 

Without getting into semantics, I'd take that as a 'claim'. Better to qualify such a statement with 'in my view', or 'in my opinion'. 

 

As in the words of the immortal Clint Eastwood, 'Opinions are like ar$eholes; everybody has one'. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Tony Wright]

8 minutes ago, Clive Mortimore said:

You say "I beg to differ...." then post photos of two Lima Deltic conversions.

 

My DP2 pre dates the A1 conversion Tom used. Doesn't make it any better but for myself it was a massive learning exercise in model making.

Clive, please point out in my text where I've claimed that the conversions I've shown 'look better' than anything else, RTR or otherwise. You did.

 

Again, with the greatest of respect, I think we'd better draw a line under this correspondence. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Headstock]

4 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Clive,

 

According to Hornby's literature and the other books I've just consulted, they were built for 'outer-suburban' work. That's why they were all-door in their construction. The last of their kind in the UK with regard to gangwayed stock. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

Good evening Tony,

 

I have some sympathy with Clive on this one. I always think that a good rule of thumb is, if a railway modeller or manufacturer calls a carriage a 'suburban' then it there is a 95% chance that it isn't. It's probably better to think of 'suburban' in terms of services (with a few exceptions) rather than stock. Certainly, as far as the LNER is concerned, the RTR manufactures have never produced anything that the LNER would ever consider as 'suburban stock'. Either way, the term 'suburban', when employed to a carriage, is often very misleading. It creates such anachronism as modellers wanting suburban carriages for their local rural branch line service.

[Atso]

Unfortunately, I have no need of diesels on my layout. Therefore, may I offer a couple more of my Gresley Pacifics that have been rescued/repaired and assembled from various spares and altered into locomotives useful to me please? Both are very much works in progress.

 

A1 2568, Sceptre.

 

 

A3 2796, Spearmint (or rather, it will be!).

 

[Richard_A]

1 hour ago, Tony Wright said:

I take your point, Clive, up to a point,

 

However, just a few observations. 

 

Though I heartily encourage folk to show what they've made themselves (it's always much more interesting to me than RTR), might I advise caution with some of your statements, please?

 

To claim something one has made oneself is 'better' than another model is at best naive and in some ways unwise. Where is your evidence? Is it more accurate (not just in the nose profile)? is it painted better? Does it run better? And so on and so on. Unless all those questions are answered with an emphatic 'yes!', then your assertion is questionable. Looking at the two, I know my opinion. That said, the one you've made is much more personal, and meritorious because of that.

 

I'd never be so daft as call anything I've made 'better' than an RTR equivalent. Oh no, far too much evidence would be required. I might assert that my locos will pull more (and they do - they're heavier!) and that they're more robust (the duel with the Duette proved that), but 'better' overall? Hmm. 

 

What they are (like yours) are much more personal (even if some of them are painted by others) and are examples of my own model-making; not something made in far-off Asia (however good) and not the work of others. The last-mentioned two are just possessions, desirable or not.

 

Anyway, a few more diesel pictures. 

 

 

 

This was Stoke Summit's DP2. When We needed a host of diesels for Stoke diesel-mode, I asked The Alton Model Centre to do this basic conversion for me. Son Tom then detailed it, fitted Ultrascale replacement wheelsets and weathered it. It's a modified Lima Deltic with brass overlays (from where?). Obviously it's too short, but it did for what we needed. 

 

Speaking of Lima Deltics...................

 

 

Tom did this'modification', using a pair of Lima Class 37 motors/bogies, various detailing bits, fitted SE Finecast flush-glazing, repainted/weathered it, and packed it with as much lead as could be accommodated. The result? A loco for which we cannot find out how much it will pull. At over 50 carriages, any train 'implodes' on the end curves on LB. He wrote about this in the 'Student Modeller' section of the RM, some years ago. 

 

As for DELTIC itself?

 

 

This is mine. Made/modified some 40 years ago, using a Kitmaster body and a modified Lima chassis. Certainly not as good as the Bachmann RTR equivalent, but 'mine' in a unique way. 

 

Could this below be the 'ultimate' DELTIC?

 

 

Tom started this some 15 years ago (in his early-20s), the intention being for it to run on Retford in EM for Roy Jackson. Without being disparaging to a deceased friend, when 'sums' were mentioned, the commission rather petered out. Thus, it's lain rather moribund for the last dozen or so years. It, too, has a Kitmaster body (much-detailed - much more than mine), but the mechanism is something else! It's powered by two (yes two!) Mashima O Gauge motors, driving every wheel through a scratch-built tower/bogies, the power being transferred via neoprene UV joints, thence via lay-shafts and Romford gears - all accommodated in a scratch-built set of frames in substantial brass section. Twin flywheels ensure smooth-running, and the tower moves from side to side on curves. He made masters in brass for the bogie sideframes, which a mate made a mould from and cast them in resin. 

 

Haulage capacity? We have no idea. After 60 carriages were whisked round Retford, we gave up adding more, because, even on Retford's very-generous end curves, the mighty train was becoming unstable. 

 

Will he finish it? I hope so. It can easily be converted to OO (it was built in the 'narrow gauge' originally to be tested on Stoke Summit). 

 

One more diesel..................

 

 

Another Stoke Summit diesel-mode loco, this time a Class 46. It stated off as a Palitoy Class 45, and I fitted buffer beams to the bogies and altered it to a Class 46. I detailed it, painted it and weathered it. I should have flush-glazed it. 

 

None of these locos runs on LB (apart from my prototype DELTIC), but I keep them as curiosities if nothing else. I'd never (in a million years) claim that any of these are better than RTR equivalents (but Tom's DELTIC really is something). All I'd say is (apart from Tom's DELTIC) they're 'mine'. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony.  

 

 

I still have the Lima deltic article, I was very impressed with how it turned out and fancied having a go myself but I never got around to doing one. I like the prototype deltic chassis, very inventive.