Wright writes.....

[robertcwp]

30 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

The picture was probably taken in 1960, Tom, when MERLIN did 76 trips on the 'Lizzie'. The date is confirmed by he presence of a Gresley RF (third vehicle) in the formation; a replacement for the more-usual Thompson RF. It remained in the set until the train ceased to run, at the end of the summer timetable in 1962 - by then Deltic-hauled. 

 

Interestingly, the PV FK (the second vehicle) has been 'turned around'; normally the ladies' retiring room was at the south end. 

 

I wonder if the FK has been turned because, by that stage, the ladies' retiring room was officially unclassed, being the only one in the train. The other set retained a Thompson RF.

[Tom F]

5 minutes ago, robertcwp said:

I wonder if the FK has been turned because, by that stage, the ladies' retiring room was officially unclassed, being the only one in the train. The other set retained a Thompson RF.

 

Apologies if this has been asked before Robert. Regarding the two sets, was one of them maintained by the Eastern Region and the other by the Scottish, or was maintenance mixed between the two regions?

You mention the other set repainted a Thompson RF, so there were differences between the two sets vehicles wise (In build rather than type I presume).

[LNER4479]

9 hours ago, Hawin Dooiey said:

 

 

From my modern PTS training I've done, the engineman walking in the four foot, while the 'Elizabethan' passes by seems rather peculiar/bad practice.
 

It is of course bad practice, completely unacceptable ... to our modern eyes.

 

60 years ago? Well, he's certainly been 'caught in the act', that's for sure. Suspect he's used the sleepers to walk through the short tunnel and not (yet) resumed walking in the cess where he should be. Trains were slower then and certainly more noisy and the 'culture' was more a case of keep a good look out for your self - certainly pre-1974 Health & Safety at Work Act. Modern track safely awareness really took off in the era of electrification when trains got much faster but were much quieter. Ironically, about the same time as the cess stopped being an immaculately maintained safe place to walk...

 

What catches my eye in that photo is the staining effect on the ballast on the 'down' line he's walking on. It's an almost uniform dark, oily grey-brown colour right across from sleeper end to sleeper end - which ends abruptly almost exactly at the sleeper ends. Yet the 'Up' line that the train is on nothing like the same effect?

 

Study of track ballasting weathering effects, caused by the passage of trains, is a specialist subject of mine. Must get out more ...

[Tom F]

6 minutes ago, LNER4479 said:

Ironically, about the same time as the cess stopped being an immaculately maintained safe place to walk...

 

Oh the irony....

[grahame]

17 minutes ago, LNER4479 said:

It is of course bad practice, completely unacceptable ... to our modern eyes.

 

60 years ago? Well, he's certainly been 'caught in the act', that's for sure. Suspect he's used the sleepers to walk through the short tunnel and not (yet) resumed walking in the cess where he should be. Trains were slower then and certainly more noisy and the 'culture' was more a case of keep a good look out for your self - certainly pre-1974 Health & Safety at Work Act. Modern track safely awareness really took off in the era of electrification when trains got much faster but were much quieter. Ironically, about the same time as the cess stopped being an immaculately maintained safe place to walk...

 

 

The cess in that pic doesn't look very maintained to me. It looks like a damp ditch with vegetation growing in it. It's no wonder he's walking on the sleepers.

 

[t-b-g]

7 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Dear me, Tony, dear me!

 

Never, never believe the captions in photographs. 1965? 60017 was a heap of scrap by then! Perhaps I should scrap my model?

 

The picture you've posted cannot be any later than 1960 (no electric warning flashes). 

 

As for A4 tenders, 60017 always towed a 1935-style streamlined corridor tender. And, 60007 always towed a 1928-style corridor one, which she does to this day. 

 

The SE Finecast A4 does have 'issues' (but so do all the others). I'm happy enough with them as representations, but I'll now refrain from taking too many pictures of mine....................

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

I was far more interested in the details of the loco and tender than the date. When I saw the caption as 1965 I thought it sounded late but I knew some A4s were still in service then and other than the possibility of the tender having been swapped the date was not of any significance to the point I was making.

 

Some comments on this thread have really caused me to think about things.

 

I just wish Malcolm and Roy were still around to respond to what you have been saying about them. It would have been hugely entertaining.

 

The fall out from you posting photos of Roy's locos and pointing out faults on them would have been spectacular.

 

 

 

[LNER4479]

Irony ... me?

 

I'm intrigued by why he's there at all. There doesn't appear to be any sense of urgency about his gait so one much assume 'situation normal'. It was however quite normal for engineman's diagrams to require them to walk not inconsiderable distances to pick up or return from a working (although where's his 'mate'? Just ahead, out of shot perhaps? For that matter, where's his 'snap bag'?!). Retford shed (nearest depot where he could be based) would be about nearly four miles away ...

 

The point being that a well-maintained cess was important in the steam age railway as it was regular used for routine walking to and from places - not the case nowadays.

[t-b-g]

10 hours ago, Hawin Dooiey said:

I have a question regarding this intriguing photo.
 

I am going to be weathering Tony's Golden Age A4 of 60027 'Merlin', and have been looking for suitable photos, when I came across this one on flickr.
 

 

The amount of coal is impressive if she has done 240 miles roughly from Waverley. From my modern PTS training I've done, the engineman walking in the four foot, while the 'Elizabethan' passes by seems rather peculiar/bad practice.

Any information welcome. @Tony Wright, this is the condition/finish I will be going for.

 

Anybody spot the two different sorts of track? Both flat bottom but with different rail fixings. The rails laid in the 6ft and the differences between the two tracks and the state of the ballast make me wonder if the worker is from the P.Way department and is either checking or inspecting the track as part of a routine inspection or in connection with a job. At least he is facing any oncoming train.

[johndon]

1 hour ago, Tony Wright said:

 

Have we reached the 'pinnacle' in RTR offerings?

 

This is Dapol's latest 'Turbot' in O Gauge. Though I know very little about these engineers' wagons, I'm reliably informed that it is very accurate. 

 

And the price? Under £70.00 (no doubt less when discounted). 

 

Amazing!

 

I got to have a look at three of these last week on a friends layout.  They are very nice and, whilst the mass of O gauge certainly helps, they are the freest running wagons I've ever seen.

Edited August 26, 2020 by johndon

[Tom F]

2 minutes ago, LNER4479 said:

Irony ... me?

 

I'm intrigued by why he's there at all. There doesn't appear to be any sense of urgency about his gait so one much assume 'situation normal'. It was however quite normal for engineman's diagrams to require them to walk not inconsiderable distances to pick up or return from a working (although where's his 'mate'? Just ahead, out of shot perhaps? For that matter, where's his 'snap bag'?!). Retford shed (nearest depot where he could be based) would be about nearly four miles away ...

 

The point being that a well-maintained cess was important in the steam age railway as it was regular used for routine walking to and from places - not the case nowadays.

 

One for discussion in the next Skype chat I think! I'll keep the photo to hand.

[LNER4479]

7 minutes ago, grahame said:

 

The cess in that pic doesn't look very maintained to me. It looks like a damp ditch with vegetation growing in it. It's no wonder he's walking on the sleepers.

 

Possibly, although I rather doubt it. I think the angle of the picture makes it look like some of the vegetation at the foot of the slope is in the cess when it's not. The actual condition of the cess looks pretty similar to that one the other side - light grey coloured compacted ash (or similar material).

[robertcwp]

35 minutes ago, Hawin Dooiey said:

 

Apologies if this has been asked before Robert. Regarding the two sets, was one of them maintained by the Eastern Region and the other by the Scottish, or was maintenance mixed between the two regions?

You mention the other set repainted a Thompson RF, so there were differences between the two sets vehicles wise (In build rather than type I presume).

I believe they were both Eastern Region sets, although the East Coast was a kind of joint operation between the ER, NER and ScR.

 

The sets evolved over the years but in 1960 they were both the same apart from one including a Gresley RF and the other a Thompson one. In earlier years, both had included a Thompson RF from 1952 but one of the Thompson ones was damaged by fire towards the end of the 1959 Summer and a Gresley one replaced it.

 

The two carriages at the north end (the Aberdeen portion of the down train) changed on a daily basis from 1958 onwards as several pairs were in circuits. From 1958, the southbound Elizabethan did not include an Aberdeen section, two carriages that had arrived in Edinburgh on another service were added instead to replace those that had gone to Aberdeen the previous day and not come back in time. This also explains the occasional appearance of a crimson and cream Mark 1 at the north end of the train in the late 1950s.

 

The full brakes tended to vary too, with Mark 1 BGs appearing. This is because the Saturday train did not usually include a BG.

[St Enodoc]

1 hour ago, Michael Edge said:

Everywhere is the simple answer.

Thanks Mike. I'll start working my way round.

[St Enodoc]

1 hour ago, ScRSG said:

 

Any links to what and where to buy the graphite?

 

I get mine from the local art shop, in packs of four sticks. Each stick is about 2" long and 1/4" square. I think they are different grades but they all seem to work OK.

[Headstock]

I started work on an ECJS BG, I didn't even know what it was. I've finally finished it and achieved some sort of Nirvana.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 26, 2020 by Headstock
re uploaded files they looked slightly oversaturated

[gr.king]

You didn't know what it was????

[Headstock]

3 hours ago, gr.king said:

You didn't know what it was????

 

It's been such a lengthy build / paint time, I was waiting for railways to be invented, so I could find out.

Edited August 26, 2020 by Headstock
re uploaded files, looked slightly over saturated

[Tony Wright]

1 hour ago, t-b-g said:

 

I was far more interested in the details of the loco and tender than the date. When I saw the caption as 1965 I thought it sounded late but I knew some A4s were still in service then and other than the possibility of the tender having been swapped the date was not of any significance to the point I was making.

 

Some comments on this thread have really caused me to think about things.

 

I just wish Malcolm and Roy were still around to respond to what you have been saying about them. It would have been hugely entertaining.

 

The fall out from you posting photos of Roy's locos and pointing out faults on them would have been spectacular.

 

 

 

I wish they were still around, too, Tony,

 

And, in case anyone thinks I'm only mentioning these things after the two 'giants' in question cannot reply, many's the time I've had face-to-face discussions with them about exactly what I've been saying.

 

Indeed, Malcolm and I had quite a 'heated' discussion about the K2 shown on the last page or two. It was at a Nottingham show (you might well have been alongside him) and I was told in no uncertain terms that my building of it was effectively 'rubbish', especially as I hadn't followed the prescribed path. His comments with regards to the rods not matching the frames were definitely along the lines of 'It wouldn't matter if you'd have done it properly - with compensation!'. Were you present when he tried to run his on Retford? It just about limped out of the fiddle yard, then fell off! Could you have resisted a chuckle? I couldn't. 

 

Regarding Roy, the very first time I met him he told me to 'F'-off! (I tell you no lie). I'd had the temerity to point out that the domes on two of his A3s on High Dyke were incorrect, being 'banjo' in style. 

 

I miss them both greatly, and I learned a huge amount from two wonderful blokes. However, they didn't always get things 'right', though they probably got more things correct than I ever did (or will do). 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Edited August 26, 2020 by Tony Wright
typo error

[Tony Wright]

Two more Retford pictures...............

 

 

 

I don't know who built the magnificent signal gantry (for which the local spiders had made many representations of the guy-wires!), but it so 'sets the scene'. 

 

I assume Roy built both locos....................

 

I know Tony Gee did most of the beautiful scenic work in this area.

 

 

Edited August 26, 2020 by Tony Wright
to add something

[Tony Wright]

1 hour ago, johndon said:

 

I got to have a look at three of these last week on a friends layout.  They are very nice and, whilst the mass of O gauge certainly helps, they are the freest running wagons I've ever seen.

'they are the freest running wagons I've ever seen.'

 

Indeed they are, John,

 

I had to do my best at 'first slip' to catch the Turbot as it tried to roll off my photo studio table! I had no idea it had a very slight slope. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[cctransuk]

30 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

However, they didn't always get things 'right', .....

 

'Right' is a completely personal concept - fortunately, it is different for every individual modeller, according to their interests, knowledge and priorities.

 

I'm not sure that publicly critiquing models according to one's individual priorities is kind - though prefacing such comments with "Now if I had been building it ......" can take the sting out of the negativity, and indicate that it would be a personal imperative.

 

Chacun à son goût !! Vive la difference !!

 

John Isherwood.

[Barry Ten]

1 hour ago, Headstock said:

I started work on an ECJS BG, I didn't even know what it was. I've finally finished it and achieved some sort of Nirvana.

 

Smells like teak spirit.

[pete55]

32 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Two more Retford pictures...............

 

 

 

I don't know who built the magnificent signal gantry (for which the local spiders had made many representations of the guy-wires!), but it so 'sets the scene'. 

 

I assume Roy built both locos....................

 

I know Tony Gee did most of the beautiful scenic work in this area.

 

 

 

Hello Tony,

the gantry was built and installed by Martin Lloyd, and I believe the signal at the end of platform 1 was built by Mick Moore.

 

The scenic work was started by Richard Nice and myself, but was mainly the work of  (Buccaneer) John McRae and Tony Gee.

 

Pete

[Porcy Mane]

44 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

I know Tony Gee did most of the beautiful scenic work in this area.

 

8 minutes ago, pete55 said:

The scenic work was started by Richard Nice and myself, but was mainly the work of  (Buccaneer) John McRae and Tony Gee.

 

... and not forgetting the back-scene by the late Tom Harland.

[Bucoops]

20 minutes ago, Barry Ten said:

 

Smells like teak spirit.

 

There is a phrase that the young'uns use - you win the internet today.