RMweb Gold sjp23480 Posted November 17, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 17, 2012 Just noticed that Vectis have been asked to sell the Hornby Archive Collection. This looks like a massive collection of just about every model produced by Hornby from 1997-2012, and some! Sale is scheduled for December 5th http://www.vectis.co.uk/Page/ViewAuction.aspx?AuctionId=433&DayNo=1 I have no connection to the auction house concerned, other than as an occasional customer. Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted November 17, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 17, 2012 Interesting - does indeed look like a clearout (and a certain regular appearer in the 'EBay Madness' thread will be there with his chequebook ready to add to his stock no doubt). Not a very clever date as it happens as it clashes with Day 1 of the 'Trains Galore' sale at Special Auction Services at Newbury although no doubt the trade buyers will somehow solve the quandary and the two auctions are not competing with similar material that day. As far as I can trace all the 'Castles' in the Vectis auction are the early, ex-Airfix, pattern but several 'Granges' on offer I see. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernard Lamb Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 It will be interesting to see if the Preproduction Olympic items go for any sort of money. Bernard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold JohnR Posted November 17, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 17, 2012 I dont know why they went to an auction house - surely somewhere like eBay would be better for some of this stuff? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted November 17, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 17, 2012 It will be interesting to see if the Preproduction Olympic items go for any sort of money. Bernard An auction I hope to be attending next week has a pair of Usain Bolt's running shoes as one lot and although they weren't a pair he wore at the Olympics I bet they might get a bit more interest. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddy Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 This feels very sad - I hope it is just a general clear out and not a reflection on recent announcements. Why did they not sell the stuff through Hornby.COM and cut out the middle man. Paddy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold gwrrob Posted November 17, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 17, 2012 An auction I hope to be attending next week has a pair of Usain Bolt's running shoes as one lot and although they weren't a pair he wore at the Olympics I bet they might get a bit more interest. Why are you in the running for them Mike or have you shot your bolt ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted November 17, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 17, 2012 Why are you in the running for them Mike or have you shot your bolt ! Not for me at all Rob, I doubt they'd make me run, let alone run faster. I do however have an interest in several other lots and although it might be safe to mention railways here I reckon postcards of RN warships might be a bit too exotic for most folk. It is interesting that Hornby have chosen this way to sell them but quite understandable I think. Firstly it's minimum hassle for them, they just send a lorryload to Vectis and the auction house does the rest. Secondly the fee will probably be a lot less that Hornby having the hassle and costs of selling, getting in payment, and despatching the goods. Plus they put everything straight into the ideal marketplace where dealers and Ebay sellers will buy mixed lots as opposed to selling off single items or small lots and not getting rid of unwanted stuff. Oh, and Vectis will probably get good prices - for all of it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmcg Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 Regardless of the reasons for the sale I think that if I had a large collection of desirable models I would probably use something like established auctioneers Vectis as Hornby are doing. The labour involved in individual item sales is quite demanding... I buy and sell regularly, although more buying than selling lately, and it's usually pleasant enough. I'm filled with admiration for some of the retailers of second hand stuff when they are doing it for a living. It's hard work making an attractive ad! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
D605Eagle Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 gostude, micmcm and mrsud will be fighting up the A1 to Thornaby with the cheque books flapping. If it was Rugby I'd be tempted to go and and ermmm....... well not on here! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddy Posted November 18, 2012 Share Posted November 18, 2012 Fair point Chaps - I hope Hornby get good prices. Paddy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
edcayton Posted November 18, 2012 Share Posted November 18, 2012 There are some bizarre pairings there! I find it sad that the auctioneers pay more attention to the condition of the boxes than accuracy about the contents. Selling this collection smacks of desperation to me, I hope I'm wrong but I am worried Hornby may be in serious trouble. Ed Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Metr0Land Posted November 18, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 18, 2012 Must admit the sale has concerned me. If they're not in trouble it does rather smack of 'new brooms' at least. I know we all know how to run Hornby Trains better than the current management but it strikes me that most businesses face turbulence at one time or another. Usually when this happens businesses concentrate on core business and hopefully rebuild again. Throwing out reminders of better days doesn't strike me as a sensible option. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil gollin Posted November 18, 2012 Share Posted November 18, 2012 . Having never been to any auction, are either the Hornby sale at Vectis, or the Trains Galore' sale at Special Auction Services places to go for bargains, or specialist places for those with a large credit card limit ? . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Metr0Land Posted November 18, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 18, 2012 . Having never been to any auction, are either the Hornby sale at Vectis, or the Trains Galore' sale at Special Auction Services places to go for bargains, or specialist places for those with a large credit card limit ? . They're both! Clearly some large lots will go for a wad of money and you need plenty of credit on your credit/debit card or a line of credit with the auction house if you are a trader and they allow such things. For other items which only go into the low hundreds, there's the occasional buy (I wouldn't necessarily say bargain though that will depend on individual). eg you've been looking for a particular model/variant/condition for something you must have for your layout. Dealers will be looking to pay a price and then mark it up for a profit. You may be willing to pay for more that model than the the dealer as it's a must have gap in your collection. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Metr0Land Posted November 18, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 18, 2012 Edit: Forgot to say I've been to Vectis/Rugby a few times and some other car/train auctions - always seemed to me that it was a mix of individuals and traders. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
26power Posted November 18, 2012 Share Posted November 18, 2012 If buying remember the terms - 20% buyers premium plus VAT, and then a percentage if you use a credit card! Cheers, 26power . Having never been to any auction, are either the Hornby sale at Vectis, or the Trains Galore' sale at Special Auction Services places to go for bargains, or specialist places for those with a large credit card limit ? . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold sjp23480 Posted November 18, 2012 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted November 18, 2012 If buying remember the terms - 20% buyers premium plus VAT, and then a percentage if you use a credit card! Cheers, 26power Good point 26power......I got caught once like this, but once bitten and the rest is history.... Given the 40%+ premium to the purchase price, I am not so sure there are many bargains to be had here? Personally, I will be leaving the bidding on this auction to the hardcore collectors and dealers. Stephen Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted November 18, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 18, 2012 Having never been to any auction, are either the Hornby sale at Vectis, or the Trains Galore' sale at Special Auction Services places to go for bargains, or specialist places for those with a large credit card limit ? As already noted Phil - mixture of individuals and 'trade buyers'. I don't know about Vectis having never been to one of their auctions but I'm a regular at 'Trains Galore' and other SAS toy/train auctions (among others) and I think one thing that can be said of any of them is that a private buyer can usually beat a trader on hammer price. But there is a catch to that - as illustrated in the Vectis lots - in that the auctioneers usually put the lots together in a way that is aimed at ensuring stuff sells for the optimum price and, in particular, to try to ensure that it sells. Thus in r-t-r lots you will find 'unpopular' locos or stock mixed in with 'popular' items to try to make sure the less wanted things will sell. This is an absolute pain for most private buyers but usually tends to suit trade buyers who are only interested in selling one what they have bought for a profit. But if you are prepared to accept the wheat with the chaff you can outbid them because they are always calculating the profit margin and you as a private buyer are not doing that. I have 'beaten' trade buyers on a number of occasions for that reason while equally I have dropped out of bidding when I haven't been prepared to go that high for stuff I don't want. Always remember to factor in additional charges - at the SAS auctions (linked below) the buyer's commission rate is 15% plus the VAT on that commission; I usually think in terms of 20% so I have a bit in hand. If you bid online with them you also pay additional commission to the company running the online bidding. Charges vary from auction house to auction house so you need to watch that and check before you register to bid - usually 'bidding in the room is cheapest (excluding travel costs of course) followed by telephone bidding then internet but don't forget if you are a remote bidder you will probably have to pay a postage/delivery charge as well unless you can get there to collect your purchases. It is not unknown on some lots for the delivery charge to exceed what you paid for the lot! Watch our also for imported items - Day 1 of 'Trains Galore' this year is all imported stuff, so you also pay VAT on the hammer price as well as on the commission - and that really mounts up. http://www.specialau...on_calendar.php Attending a live auction is usually a mixture of fun, entertainment, and occasional frustration. The important thing is to set beforehand how far you are prepared to go on the lots you are after and not exceed it unless you reckon one more bid might do it (that can be tricky) - and don't spend more than you have got of course! 'Trains Galore' is a good mixture of prices usually and r-t-r can be picked up reasonably if you're lucky and careful, the high rollers on the large scale stuff can be seen spending lots of dosh - numbers with 3 noughts after the digit(s) - although some Gauge 1 r-t-r can go for remarkably low prices (not this year I suspect judging by looking through the auction catalogue the other day) while it is not at all unusual to see trade buyers going up over £20 - 30,000, especially if they are trying to restock. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJS1977 Posted November 18, 2012 Share Posted November 18, 2012 Is it me, or does anyone else think it strange that a company with a history as long as Hornby's only has an archive going back to 1997? I would have expected a Hornby archive collection to at least include some Triang items and some of the pre-war O-gauge, not to mention the 1980s period when Hornby was probably more "visible" as a company to the general public than it is now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butler Henderson Posted November 18, 2012 Share Posted November 18, 2012 Presumably the displays in the Margate exhibition centre are unaffected and these are the undisplayed collection? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted November 18, 2012 Share Posted November 18, 2012 I'm surmising that it's just an exercise to clear some space of items that are not commercially required beyond this point and are probably clogging up a bit of space that has more value or use for something else. Hornby do retain other originals to check back for QC issues some years later (e.g. Class 31s) and of course there are items in their exhibition. I certainly wouldn't read anything sinister into it and can see the logic of shipping out to one source to handle the sale rather than dealing with collectors/modellers individually. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagrizz Posted November 18, 2012 Share Posted November 18, 2012 If buying remember the terms - 20% buyers premium plus VAT, and then a percentage if you use a credit card! Cheers, 26power Good point 26power......I got caught once like this, but once bitten and the rest is history.... Given the 40%+ premium to the purchase price, I am not so sure there are many bargains to be had here? Personally, I will be leaving the bidding on this auction to the hardcore collectors and dealers. Stephen Vectis charge 20% commission but the VAT is on the commission, not the goods. Plus a bit for credit card; if you factor in a 25% mark-up on the hammer price you won't be far off. Graham Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium brushman47544 Posted November 18, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 18, 2012 I too assumed that this was simply a clear out of unwanted items, now that Hornby has its visitor centre for its important archive and because there's nothing really old. They are a business and can't like most I imagine want to retain (and presumably pay rent for) space for decades worth of every model produced. As for Vectis, I used them a couple of years ago to reduce the size of my collection due to a lack of storage space and in particular sell off my unwanted childhood Hornby models. I can confirm that they try and ensure each Lot will have an estimate price around £100 or higher for more valuable items. I was surprised at first that for example more sought after limited editions weren't sold alone but were put with other things. But at the end I was happy because the final total of all items sold was in the range I expected. They clearly know their business! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adams442T Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 Britains did the same thing in 1992 when they sold their whole reference collection, and they stripped out all the items that had been on loan to the Bethnal Green Toy Museum for many years. In my experience companies such as these have no nostalgia for their history and purely see these items as occupying costly space. When the prospect of a return from items which no longer have any commercial value to them arises they take it. I have found that toy company directors (NOT including people like Simon Kohler and others at the sharp end of contact with customers) have difficulty in understanding the whole concept of 'collectors' and could just as well be selling tins of baked beans. Unfortunately they often seem less competent than those who do sell said beans.............................. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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