Beardybloke Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 Afternoon all, Another quick (I hope) question in my ongoing saga of trying to get my layout wired up... and lets hope there are as many helpful folk out there as last time On my 009 layout rebuild, I'm going for solenoid point operation as a replacement for the bodged wire operation method that I did have, mainly as I already have a few Peco PL-10Es lying around from an earlier aborted project - I'm sure that something like Tortoise with inbuilt microswitches would be better if I were starting from scratch, but that's by-the-by. My main problem is that I don't know which microswitch to go for to change the frog polarity - the PL-13 'Accessory Switch' or the PL-15 'Twin Microswitch' - I've had a play on Google and searched the old RMweb, and it seems that the PL-13 is the basic one and will do the job (it certainly appears to have the contacts for an DPST) but quite a few people seem to advocate the PL-15 as being required to make the point/switch combination equivalent to a Tortoise - why is this? Is it simply because it's easier to wire extra accessories to it (e.g. point indicators, LEDs, signals etc.) or is there some other nefarious reason? If it's the former, I'm not too worried as I'm running a quarry layout with no signalling, and am quite happy to splice an LED or two into the circuit in parallel to give an indication on the control panel. However if it's the latter, I don't really want to waste my money buying something that'll need replacement... So... if there's anyone out there who can provide some clarification, I'd be very grateful Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bike2steam Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 You'll find the PL-13 will disintergrate under heavy use, especially if your making a layout for exhibition use, go for micro-switches every time, avoid the PL-13's like the plague, they are weak, and lightly assembled. edit. By micro-switches, I dont mean Peco PL-15's, but one piece complete jobs from the likes of Expo tools(280-31) etc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 IMO neither of them are much good PL13 - wear out quite quickly and are subject to environmental conditions - especially dust which seems to get inside and foul up the wiper. PL15 - much more fiddly to set up - but more reliable in operation. But I don't think the extra cost brings much benefit - In my experience they also work loose but this can be resolved with some thread lock. I would ebay the PL10's and use any funds towards something far more reliable - like a Tortoise Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold slow8dirty Posted December 28, 2009 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 28, 2009 11 pl13's have been fitted to my layout as construction progressed over the past year. Of those 11, 4 need to be replaced already and the layout has only really seen anything other than test running until the last few months. Easy to fit, they need to be. No connection to the manufacturer other than as a disatisfied customer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RedgateModels Posted December 28, 2009 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 28, 2009 get some microswitches from somewhere like Maplins, I too used PL-13s on Summat Colliery until the first Member's Day - rubbish, open mechanisms very prone to dust ingress .... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold john dew Posted December 28, 2009 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 28, 2009 Couldnt agree more with the above. Kenton summarised my experience and views admirably Regards from Vancouver Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beardybloke Posted December 28, 2009 Author Share Posted December 28, 2009 Right, thanks chaps, that's me told Two things then arise from this... can someone recommend a decent type of DPST microswitch that would be usable with a Peco solenoid and how best to mount it so that it works reliably; or can someone recommend a supplier for Tortoises? If the latter, does anyone want to buy some PL-10s? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RedgateModels Posted December 28, 2009 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 28, 2009 Use something like this http://www.maplin.co...?ModuleNo=20406 mount the switch on a suitable block of wood close to the solenoid. You can then ben the long paddle on the switch so that the switch works at the mid-point of the throw of the solenoid. I had some pics somewhere on the old forum, I'll have a dig around later if I can .... found it - http://www.rmweb.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=26875 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beardybloke Posted December 28, 2009 Author Share Posted December 28, 2009 Cracking, thanks Redgate - I'll get myself half a dozen of those and have a bash... it'll be cheaper overall given that I've got some PL-10s already! Is it necessary to solder the back of the motor pin to the switch (or secure it in some other way) or are the switches sprung and return to their original position (and polarity) when released by the solenoid being thrown in the opposite direction? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RedgateModels Posted December 28, 2009 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 28, 2009 To be fair the credit goes to Gordon S as twas he who pointed me in the right direction No soldering needed, the microswitches are sprung "open" so you just make sure the solenoid pin pushes the microswitch closed against this spring action. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
naugytrax Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 recommend a decent type of DPST microswitch Don't want to sound fussy here, but in case you're going shopping at Maplins etc. you should ask for SPDT switches (single pole, double throw) not DPST. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beardybloke Posted December 28, 2009 Author Share Posted December 28, 2009 Don't want to sound fussy here, but in case you're going shopping at Maplins etc. you should ask for SPDT switches (single pole, double throw) not DPST. Oops I'll pretend that I don't have a degree in electronics at this point... or blame it on the very Irish coffee Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunk Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 Could someone post a pic/drawing of the PL10 + microswitch assembly, please? There used to be one on the old rmweb site but it's gone now, and I can't visualise how to orientate the switch to make it work in both directions. Or am I just being thick...? Thanks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ron Ron Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 I would ebay the PL10's and use any funds towards something far more reliable - like a Tortoise I totally agree with that. Ditch the Solenoids. :icon_thumbsup2: . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenny Emily Posted February 8, 2010 Share Posted February 8, 2010 I didn't realise the PL-13 switches were so prone to failing. Would covering them in something like shrink wrap possibly help to keep dirt ingress to a minimum or are they a no hoper? I look to the underside of my layout and see too many PL-13s for comfort now. And the glue I used to stick them on was powerful stuff - wouldn't want to have to chisel them off in a hurry. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RFS Posted February 8, 2010 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 8, 2010 Has anyone used Maplin's DPDT latching relay in conjunction with point motors? As they're 12V DC I assume some type of diode is required. Latching Relay Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete the Elaner Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 I will jump on the 'avoid PL-13' bandwagon too. The only drawback with Tortoises would appear to be their size - you need well over 3" clearance to mount them under the baseboards. The other issue you may want to consider is that they need to be wired differently to solenoids so would not be a like-for-like replacement. Also, why does everyone on this site recommend Maplin when Rapid Electronics sell the same gear for a fraction of the price? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 I have used Tortoise on my last layout and wouldn't go back. However, for the club layout we are using SEEP solenoid point motors with an inbuilt polarity change switch - PM-1 is the one you would want (4.00). I think PECO track is OK but their accessories have always been a disappointment to me - expensive and poor quality. My 2 cents. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 Would covering them in something like shrink wrap possibly help to keep dirt ingress to a minimum or are they a no hoper? No I don't think that will help. It is probably more of an environment/oxidation of the internal strip/wiper than a dust/dirt issue - but that may depend on where the layout is based. If you have a working layout without any problems I would leave them in place and continue to use them - the only driver for change would be to eliminate the thumping of the points (I know some like this) Only when and if one fails change it. But if you are building a new layout there is no contest. (well perhaps the DIY servo route) The wiring of Tortoise motors is simpler and requires no CDU. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 Also, why does everyone on this site recommend Maplin when Rapid Electronics sell the same gear for a fraction of the price? Maplins are well known but I have not heard of Rapid Electronics before. If you know of a good model of microswitch they sell then a link would be very welcome. EDIT: - Is this the one you mean? http://www.rapidonline.com/sku/Electronic-Components/Switches/Microswitches/Paddle-lever-microswitch/28681/78-0720 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete the Elaner Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 You've heard of them now I don't know about that item specifically, but Rapid do sell similar quality gear & their prices are generally significantly less. When wiring up an entire layout, the saving could easily be enough for a bit of rolling stock Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highlandman Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 I would agree with the comments about Tortoise motors. I started out using Peco motors and microswitches. They were a pain to set up and i could not get them to work correctly with the single and double slip i have on my layout. I switched to Tortoise and would not go back now. Wiring is easy and the built in switches are great to work with. You only need standard DPDT switches to control them. Good luck Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beardybloke Posted February 16, 2010 Author Share Posted February 16, 2010 Could someone post a pic/drawing of the PL10 + microswitch assembly, please? There used to be one on the old rmweb site but it's gone now, and I can't visualise how to orientate the switch to make it work in both directions. Or am I just being thick...? Thanks. I've managed to bodge a few on my layout into working order, dunk - I'll post up a photo or two for you once the server's been transferred across (I'm at work at the minute) - though the old RMweb will hopefully be back by then! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RedgateModels Posted February 16, 2010 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 16, 2010 I think there's a few pics on my old Summat Colliery thred, lets wait and see how the new server performs once we all move over to the good ole USA B) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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