RMweb Premium Ray H Posted December 11, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 11, 2012 I wanted an all green Class 31 for my 4mm layout and managed to acquire an Airfix model at a reasonable price a little while back. However, it didn't take too kindly to Code 100 points so was unlikely to be that friendly towards the code 75 track that I'm thinking of using. Consequently I will have to re-wheel it and will need to fit a DCC decoder to it and I also want to replace the glazing. I see in the latest Railway Modeller that Hornby appear to be producing an all green Class 31 in mid 2013 - which is soon enough for me (the rate track building/laying is going mid 2014 will be too soon). I appreciate that a set of replacement wheels and an average DCC decoder (which is all I use) for the Airfix model will cost far less than the Hornby model - estimated lowest price looks around £100. However, I wonder whether without going to mad by way of other enhancements to the Airfix model, the Hornby model is likely to significantly outclass the Airfix model. I presume that the Hornby model will be from existing tooling and that only the colour will change. Does have anyone have any views based on the most recent Hornby Class 31? Thanks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Colin Posted December 11, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 11, 2012 I'm surprised your Airfix loco wasn't happy on Code 100 track - I had one which was perfectly OK on a layout using Streamline track. I have a green/SYP Hornby 31 (the first issue from a few years ago) which runs well enough now, but which needed a fair bit of remedial work to the bogies - looking at the underside, it was clear that the bogie frames were slightly banana-shaped, bending outwards at each end which caused all sorts of problems with loose wheels & gears; also, due to the distortion the bogies were overwidth which caused all sorts of clearance issues with platforms etc. I thought I was just unlucky, but the blue Hornby 31 I bought last year had the same problem, but not quite as bad. It's not difficult to fix but it's an unacceptable fault in my opinion, given that a new 31 certainly isn't cheap! IMHO the Lima 31 is still worth seeking out, they did several green locos with & without yellow panel and I think they're basically good models which respond well to a bit of detailing. Also, the new Hornby Railroad 31 chassis (which is the Lima chassis remotored and greatly improved) is a superb runner and a direct fit under a Lima body. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shed Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 I've an old Airfix 31 and it runs ok on most track, suprised you had a problem Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
crompton 33 Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 my airfix class 31 run's fine on code 100 track. changed the plastic wheels with metal ones to get rid of the traction tyres. fitted flushglace windows. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
37114 Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 I am combining a lima shell on a Hornby chassis (The Hornby type, not ex Lima version) to get in my eyes the best shape 31 and the basic raw materials have cost £35: Lima 31 - £20, then sold the motor on ebay for £5 Broken Hornby 31 chassis (one of the early crumbling chassis batch) - £20 I have replaced the handrails, and will give it a full respray but will still end up one of the cheapest ways to get a decent looking 31. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 Same here. The current Hornby main range model is beautifully finished but has a major shape error in the rendition of the cab side windows which simply are not recessed as they should be. (Anyone found a DIY fix? I keep looking but cannot see a way to definitely make a better job of it.) Both the Airfix and Lima have better bodies in this key respect which means that they actually look like a Brush type 2. The Hornby's killer advantage is the way better chassis, correctly having the smaller carrying wheels in the centre of each bogie, and a first class mechanism, quiet, smooth (and with enough traction for a couple of class 59s). Marry your choice of better body with the Hornby chassis, they can be got cheap s/h thanks to the ends breaking off, which actually makes the transplant easier. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Ray H Posted December 12, 2012 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted December 12, 2012 my airfix class 31 run's fine on code 100 track. changed the plastic wheels with metal ones to get rid of the traction tyres. fitted flushglace windows. I'd be interested to know which replacement wheels you used and how easy you found fitting the new ones. What, if anything did you do about the dummy axle on the motor bogie? Flushglazed windows were also on the list of planned changes. I was wondering about replacing the cab door handrails but am unsure of the best way to remove the moulded ones given that I don't anticipate repainting the body. The only other changes were likely to be marker lights and an illuminated roof box so that I know which way the loco is about to move once the decoder is fitted. Thanks for all the other comments. I've missed out on a couple of damaged Hornby chassis's on ebay but keep checking as it'll be a while before I plan to start work on the loco. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
crompton 33 Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 the wheels where got on ebay as spares. got a rear bogie and fitted the metal wheels to the front bogie. the middle wheel was left alone as it's only half a wheel. the cab door handrails where they fit in the top of the side window frame is to thin to drill out and fit metal one's. i tried it then ended up getting a new body. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Ray H Posted December 12, 2012 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted December 12, 2012 the wheels where got on ebay as spares. got a rear bogie and fitted the metal wheels to the front bogie. the middle wheel was left alone as it's only half a wheel. the cab door handrails where they fit in the top of the side window frame is to thin to drill out and fit metal one's. i tried it then ended up getting a new body. Thanks. I was contemplating replacing the wheels to suit code 75 track rather than just using similar profile ones to those already on the loco. I'd heard tales about the width of the window posts making handrail replacement difficult. I've just had a peek at pictures of a couple of Hornby models and they seem to get round this by centring the hole for the handrail in what would otherwise be the jam between door and loco body. I wonder if I can leave the handrails alone and simply try and pick them out in a different colour or whether that would look even worse than what is there already? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim49 Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 There shouldn't be any problem using an Airfix 31 on Peco Code 75 track. I tried my 30 year old version on code 75 and it ran through any number of points without any difficulty. Have you checked the Back to Back measurement of the wheels and that they are all free to move within the bogie frames? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Metr0Land Posted December 13, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 13, 2012 I have 2 Airfix and 3 Lima 31's - all seem happy on my Code100 trackwork. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted December 13, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 13, 2012 Having 27 or 28 Brush type twos of all makes including a scratchbuilt one, but not the Hornby one. Go for the one you think is best. No Hornby one because when the green with yellow panel version as in the shops I was unemployed, so had to watch the pennies. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Ray H Posted December 13, 2012 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted December 13, 2012 The back to back seems OK as far as I can see. It is the thickness of the wheel flanges that seem to make the difference. I don't know why the loco (as bought, secondhand) didin't like the code 100 point. It wasn't my layout that I tried it on. I could try to find a code 100 layout on which to try it again but that doesn't seem a worthwhile exercise as the loco will normally run on code 75 track. Tests on a loose 3-way code 75 point don't show any problems but as I plan to change the motor bogie wheels to metal I might as well do the same with the other bogie. There does appear to be a difference in the axle diameter sizes of about 0.4mm between the metal and the plastic wheel/axles combinations. As nobody has currently suggested waiting for the Hornby one it looks as though I might as well press ahead when I'm ready with what I have and with what I planned to do with it (save, possibly, for the handrail replacement) and save a few quid into the bargain. That said, progress won't be immediate so I'll keep my eyes open for a damaged Hornby chassis as well. Thanks for the comments/observations. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob D2 Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 Am I missing a trick here or just being blond ( grey). I understand the Lima body/ Hornby chassis but what use is a mazak destructing chassis in 3 bits ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 Does have anyone have any views based on the most recent Hornby Class 31? Runs nicely but looks wrong - slab sides lacking the subtle curve which the loco sides have. Am I missing a trick here or just being blond ( grey). I understand the Lima body/ Hornby chassis but what use is a mazak destructing chassis in 3 bits ? Do this - http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/19369-brush-type-2-re-birth-finished Combine the best of all worlds! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob D2 Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 Er , ok. So you take a Hornby new spec, get rid of the body. Strip the innards and lob them on the Lima chassis. I can't help thinking this is six of one , half a dozen of another . So you've got a shorter Lima body , is this then dimensionally out ? And a good mechanism tied to a cheapo plastic ' chassis'. Im not sure this is progress ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium John M Upton Posted December 14, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 14, 2012 Only the Lima 'N' gauge 31 is too short, the OO scale one as also made by Hornby under the Railroad name is of correct specifications. After personal experience with the new Hornby 31, that niggling feeling about the cab shape that even I can see isn't quite right and had two chassis snap on me, I have gone down the refurbish and repaint twenty quid Lima versions route, with some decent coupings, a good paint job and the sprung buffers off the new Hornby version, they look pretty good to my eye. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 Er , ok. So you take a Hornby new spec, get rid of the body. Strip the innards and lob them on the Lima chassis. Exactly - by retaining the Lima chassis frame retains a perfect and easy method of mounting the body on the chassis. Others used the Hornby chassis as it comes but had to arrange their own mounts. I can't help thinking this is six of one , half a dozen of another . So you've got a shorter Lima body , is this then dimensionally out ? And a good mechanism tied to a cheapo plastic ' chassis'. Im not sure this is progress ! You've fallen into the trap of thinking new is better - however really look at the Lima body, it's so much better than the Hornby one to look at and with work is much, much better. The tooling has so much for finesse, with a delightful subtly to it. The finished loco runs superbly too. So what I have is a loco which looks right, runs well and is very much progress! When I'm demonstrating modelling diesels in 4mm at Scalefour North in April, come and see for yourself. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jim s-w Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 And a good mechanism tied to a cheapo plastic ' chassis'. Im not sure this is progress ! Decide for yourself Although i dont use the lima chassis. I just mount the cabs to the body and fit a couple of plastic shelves to the roof to screw the chassis onto the body. Aside from the body detail it takes about 20 mins (not including drying time) Cheers Jim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasslands Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 They are just lovelly, anybody created the two experimental liveries or GFYP with BR Arrows? Tom Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold JCL Posted December 22, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 22, 2012 They look fantastic Jim! I was just wondering, is there much difference between the Lima and Airfix class 31s when it comes to running? Is one quieter and/or more reliable than the other, or are they broadly similar? Cheers Jason Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
crompton 33 Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 my (2) airfix class 31's are quite noisy. but then a lima can be the same. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted December 22, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 22, 2012 After all these years we are still talking about the Airfix 31 being noisy. All of mine are and always have been, some in one direction make more noise than they do going the other way. Watch out if very noisy either the bearings are going or the mounting plate has cracked. A new motor might be advisable at this point or the Hornby Railroad model (new motor version of the Lima model). In fact if I were looking for a Brush type 2 for my layout and did not have any already I would buy the Hornby Railroad model. Unless you are adventurous like Jim and willing to make the best possible Type 2 from RTR bits and bobs then the Hornby chassis with the Lima (or Hornby Railroad) body on top. Clive PS I still think there is mileage in the old Tri-ang bodies. http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/62561-a-delayed-conversion/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold JCL Posted December 22, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 22, 2012 Thanks very much Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewartingram Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 After all these years we are still talking about the Airfix 31 being noisy. All of mine are and always have been, some in one direction make more noise than they do going the other way. Watch out if very noisy either the bearings are going or the mounting plate has cracked. A new motor might be advisable at this point or the Hornby Railroad model (new motor version of the Lima model). In fact if I were looking for a Brush type 2 for my layout and did not have any already I would buy the Hornby Railroad model. Unless you are adventurous like Jim and willing to make the best possible Type 2 from RTR bits and bobs then the Hornby chassis with the Lima (or Hornby Railroad) body on top. Clive PS I still think there is mileage in the old Tri-ang bodies. http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/62561-a-delayed-conversion/ A strip down and re-assembly with plenty of TLC (& grease) quietens them right down, almost silent. Stewart Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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