Hornby 2 BIL

[Oldddudders]

Well whaddya know - before the BILs have gone into the shops, we can get spares! http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hornby-X6922-Bogie-Frame-Drive-Unit-for-2BIL-R3177-/310596654970?pt=UK_Trains_Railway_Models&hash=item485100d77a

[bazza.]

Yes, Hattons have written to me too, with suitable caveats, as befits the situation! I'll be pleasantly surprised, because I have ordered the DCC-fitted version, and hadn't realised that was in orbit at this stage. I'm not a great fan of the Hornby decoder - but while I have never had a problem getting into steam or diesel locos to add a decoder, I'm much more wary with coaching stock, with far more risk of collateral damage. That said, Hornby M7 whistles were always disappearing while the body was inverted!

 

My issue now is finding someone who will send Peco con-rail to France. The usual suspects seem to be wary of sending something in 2' lengths!

Hi Oldddudders,

 

Me too, just got my e-mail from Hattons.  You will get your 2BIL before me though, as my pair of 2Bil's have to wing it to New Zealand.

 

On the subject of Peco con-rail, the code 80 rail that they use, does not look heavy enough in the rail head, even when using code 75

BH rail as the running rails. The conductor rail that the Scalefour society sells, is sold as the correct profile conductor rail available and is sold in 20 x half metre lenghts.

 

Enjoy your new model

 

Bazza

Edited July 10, 2013 by bazza.

[Budgie]

Pictures of the actual NRM model (as well as Hornbys stock image) on Modelzones web site

http://www.modelzone.co.uk/Hornby-br-2-bil-2-car-electric-multiple-unit-train-pack-nrm.html

 

You would have thought that they'd have checked the pictures before posting them. Look at the trailing bogie on the motor coach in the enlargement of the fourth picture.

[TRAILRAGE]

.

 

Excellent, good to see that it isn't a dog !

 

Did you notice whether the NRM version actually DOESN'T have the figure 1 on the first class area door s?

 

.

I didnt Im afraid as I was really only interested in the BR green version

 

Also forgot to mention the lovely bogies have seperate brake blocks and stepboards fitted and are vey free running

Edited February 13, 2013 by TRAILRAGE

[John M Upton]

From what I can see the NRM one has coaching stock roundels and no '1's on the doors, the standard BR one has '1's and no coaching stock roundels.

 

One of each, stick some '1's on and lose the roundels on the NRM version is my provisional plan at the moment with one receiving small yellow panels at some point.

Edited February 14, 2013 by John M Upton

[bazza.]

.

 

Excellent, good to see that it isn't a dog !

 

Did you notice whether the NRM version actually DOESN'T have the figure 1 on the first class area door s?

 

.

Hi Phil,

 

Won't worry me, I'll just attach a '1' decal to each 1st class door.

 

Regards

 

Bazza

[SRman]

From what I can see the NRM one has coaching stock roundels and no '1's on the doors, the standard BR one has '1's and no coaching stock roundels.

 

One of each, stick some '1's on and lose the roundels on the NRM version is my provisional plan at the moment with one receiving small yellow panels at some point.

 

I had exactly the same things in mind too, except that both of mine will most likely get the small yellow panels.

[Multiple identity account 2]

Bought my BR green 2-BIL in Modelzone Reading today and it was the last one ( they still have at least 1 SR and 1 NRM version left. ) Im no expert but it certanly looks like a BIL  it really is a beautifull model and runs extremely smooth and very very quiet even before running in for 30 mins in each direction and the slow speed control is awesome with a pretty good top speed. The outer buffers are sprung metal heads which bear on a plastic spring and the center buffer is also sprung and just about touches the opposite coach. It also uses a close coupling mechanism (almost identical to the Bachmann EMU's) and uses a small bar to connect the two together resulting in a very close coupled unit. Pick up is firom the motor coach only so no faffing about like on the Vep/BELL. Lots of seperate detail on the underside including bake rigging and seperate conduits on the roof and ends (drainpipes/ water fillers for the loo  beleive) only the door handles and roof vents appear to be moulded

 

So am I happy? In a nutshell YES well worth the money and I cant wait for the Blue FYE version (and hopefully a 2-HAL please Hornby!!!!!!)

Good to hear. So design clever has appeared to work for the 2BIL??

[zarniwhoop]

The only issue I have is renumbering, is there a definitive list (allowing for the minefield that is reformations) of the car numbers anywhere?

 

David Brown's Southern Electric Volume Two appears to have all the details (barring any short-term changes) - reformations generally listed in the 2-BIL section, the iniital carriage numbers are in the appendices.

 

ken

[QuoitsPlayer]

According to the March Hornby Magazine their review says it can crawl so slow that it took 30 minutes to crawl 6ft! I think if its like that it would give Hornby's Class 60 a run for its money in slow speed control. Certainly the slow speed control has been 'designed clever' hopefully good news for the Sentinel.

 

Edited for a typo. 

Edited February 14, 2013 by QuoitsPlayer

[TRAILRAGE]

According to the March Hornby Magazine their review says it can crawl so slow that it took 30 minutes to crawl 6ft! I think if its like that it would give Hornby's Class 60 a run for its money in slow speed control. Certainly the slow speed control has been 'designed clever' hopefully good news for the Sentinel.

 

Edited for a typo. 

I would have to agree with that ! am currently using a 15+ year old Guagemaster walkabout with my dads own made transformer box and without doubt it has to be one of the best runners I have. My 4-VEP is actually a very good runner but its like comparing an old lima motor with a 5 pole flywheel drive system the difference is remarkable and hopefully will go a long way to reinforce peoples confidence in Hornby  

[kintbury jon]

Is the 2BIL bogie interchangeable with the 4VEP one (aside from the bogie frames)?

[Gwiwer]

I'd like to think there might be a 2Hal at some future point but the difficulty arises in that there is no surviving prototype to scan.  All the R&D has to be done from drawings which takes a lot longer and potentially increases the cost of the product.

[Stevelewis]

I would have to agree with that ! am currently using a 15+ year old Guagemaster walkabout with my dads own made transformer box and without doubt it has to be one of the best runners I have. My 4-VEP is actually a very good runner but its like comparing an old lima motor with a 5 pole flywheel drive system the difference is remarkable and hopefully will go a long way to reinforce peoples confidence in Hornby  

I think that  from readng the  reprts in mags  the motor bogie in the  2BIL is  the  same  as in the  5 BEL,.....received a further 5 BEL yesterday and I am sorry to say  its running  qualities are quite  poor

 

Slow speed running  is  very  'notchy'  and  really slow running is hard to achieve, At Higher speeds it is extremely noisy, this is by   comparison with the other 2 BELs we have.

 

The other 2  5 BELs run reasonably  well, but not  as good  as  any of  our Bachmann EMUs which seem to benefit  from  the  Flyheel + Chassis mounted motor driving powered bogie  thro' cardan shaft.

 

The new BEL will probably be returned to the retailer.

 

The point of this post being  that  not all  similar  drive units  perform equally!

[TRAILRAGE]

I think that  from readng the  reprts in mags  the motor bogie in the  2BIL is  the  same  as in the  5 BEL,.....received a further 5 BEL yesterday and I am sorry to say  its running  qualities are quite  poor

 

Slow speed running  is  very  'notchy'  and  really slow running is hard to achieve, At Higher speeds it is extremely noisy, this is by   comparison with the other 2 BELs we have.

 

The other 2  5 BELs run reasonably  well, but not  as good  as  any of  our Bachmann EMUs which seem to benefit  from  the  Flyheel + Chassis mounted motor driving powered bogie  thro' cardan shaft.

 

The new BEL will probably be returned to the retailer.

 

The point of this post being  that  not all  similar  drive units  perform equally!

Very true I have 2 Bachmann 4-CEP'S the B/g version is noisy and sounds a bit like it rattles the GREEN SYP runs silently. strange that

[Budgie]

I think that from reading the reports in mags the motor bogie in the 2BIL is the same as in the 5 BEL

Sorry to disappoint you, but no it isn't. The 2Bil motor bogie has a NEM pocket on the front of it (but no couplings are supplied), the 5Bel motor bogie doesn't. The 5Bel motor bogie picks up on all four wheels, the 2Bil motor bogie doesn't.

 

That's right. The 2Bil motor bogie does not pick up at all. So the only pickups in the 2Bil are the four wheels on the trailing bogie of the motor coach. If you want to add your own pickups to the motor bogie, and you are using DCC, you will have to take those pickups to the rear of the coach, which is where the DCC chip is. So you might be better off putting pickups on the trailing coach and somehow wiring it to the motor coach (I would use Viessmann 2-pole conducting couplers, but they cost a bomb). If you wish to confirm this, take a look at the service sheet, but you can't do that yet as it is not available on the Hornby website.

 

As for the headcode, you get a sheet of numbers to stick to the headcode panel. On this sheet are 2 sets of numbers 0--9, but only one white full-width panel (and only one white full-width bit for the panel above the headcode). Where are my paintbrushes and white paint?

Edited February 16, 2013 by Budgie

[APOLLO]

Only 4 wheel pickup on a short wheelbase bogie ?. Doesn't sound very "design clever" to me. Has anyone actually got one and can tell us how it actually runs etc ?. Top whack prices for designed down items doesn't cut it for me.

 

I'm not in the market for a 2BIL, but def will be for a Duke and a Sentinel, maybe for a P1, but I would like to see them first. If this "marketing strategy" continues, then I doubt I may ever own such models as they may never be on shop display. Even pre-ordering it seems does not guarantee purchase. I had a bit of a job finding a late crest O1 recently, managed to get one - just. Pleased with it though, an excellent model.

 

If (and I mean IF) Hornby's strategy is to maximise profit by ensuring all future sales are at RRP, and delivering just enough stock to a small amount of distributors to ensure same, coupled with cost reduction by moulded detail (design clever), then they risk being out of the game as far as I am concerned.

 

Brit15

[Budgie]

Well, I haven't taken mine apart to have a look inside; I discovered what was what when I started investigating erratic running, so I applied power directly to the wheels to see what happened.

[BR(S)]

Well, I haven't taken mine apart to have a look inside; I discovered what was what when I started investigating erratic running, so I applied power directly to the wheels to see what happened.

 

Are you sure that it's not just the pick-ups on the motor bogie not making contact properly, which is then causing the erratic running you experienced?  For example, I have just been cleaning the wheels on my Bachmann MLV and the motor bogie (definitely powered) didn't run when the wheel cleaner was applied, but power was obtained through the trailing bogie.  The power bogie then worked OK once I'd made sure the pcik-ups were connecting properly.

 

I'm hoping this is the case anyway; seems very odd not to have pick-ups on the powered bogie. 

[RFS]

Sorry to disappoint you, but no it isn't. The 2Bil motor bogie has a NEM pocket on the front of it (but no couplings are supplied), the 5Bel motor bogie doesn't. The 5Bel motor bogie picks up on all four wheels, the 2Bil motor bogie doesn't.

 

That's right. The 2Bil motor bogie does not pick up at all. So the only pickups in the 2Bil are the four wheels on the trailing bogie of the motor coach. If you want to add your own pickups to the motor bogie, and you are using DCC, you will have to take those pickups to the rear of the coach, which is where the DCC chip is. So you might be better off putting pickups on the trailing coach and somehow wiring it to the motor coach (I would use Viessmann 2-pole conducting couplers, but they cost a bomb). If you wish to confirm this, take a look at the service sheet, but you can't do that yet as it is not available on the Hornby website.

 

As for the headcode, you get a sheet of numbers to stick to the headcode panel. On this sheet are 2 sets of numbers 0--9, but only one white full-width panel (and only one white full-width bit for the panel above the headcode). Where are my paintbrushes and white paint?

 

The review of the model in BRM says "Current collection pick-up is fitted to all wheels of the MBTL, consisting of wiper pick-ups acting on the rear face of the wheels on both bogies."

 

So are you saying there are wipers only on the trailing bogie? That would be a hugely retrograde step.

[TRAILRAGE]

Just been and checked mine DEFINATLY all wheel pick up on the motor coach. First I lifted the motor of the track and applied power and it worked in both directions I then did the same with the trailing bogie and the motor still worked. I then checked by just leaving 2 wheels from the motor bogie on the track and that also worked so Im afraid it sounds like your pick ups just arent making contact. 

As I said in post  #643 its extremely smooth and very slow speed capable which should bode well for the Sentinel.

 

cheers

 

TRAILRAGE

[Stevelewis]

The review of the model in BRM says "Current collection pick-up is fitted to all wheels of the MBTL, consisting of wiper pick-ups acting on the rear face of the wheels on both bogies."

 

So are you saying there are wipers only on the trailing bogie? That would be a hugely retrograde step.

There  have been problems that  I am aware of with soldered cable  joints THE POWER BOGIE   on the  Brighton Belle,  I have 'fixed' 3 up to now  1 of my own  when they were first  released and 2  belonging to friends,  the problem was caused by wires becoming unsoldered on the powered  bogie, the soldered  joints  are  tiny  and the wires are  very thin, so there may be a possibility that the joints fail due to the movement of the bogie within the chassis .

 

Obviously  I cannot say if this is the same set up  with the 2 BIL as I havne seen one yet!

[Brian Kirby]

Having read all the scare stories about possible supply problems, i went straight to MZ Holborn this afternoon and bought two BR green 2BILs, one of which was the NRM version. Expecting high demand, i had already pre-ordered two units with another shop two weeks ago, but now we hear of trade orders being reduced and rationed, raising doubt as to whether my order could be fulfilled, if they can supply, i will buy those two as well. I didn't want to miss out and i've hedged my bets, but i feel sorry for all the other traders having to stand aside and watch Modelzone/Hornby cream off the initial trade, this is most unfair. I don't mind paying the full price, if the model is good enough, and these units are real beauties. Both ran perfectly smoothly and steadily, with plenty of weight in the power car, and yes, all power car wheels collect current. I was quite vocal in my criticism of their 4VEP, but this has been a huge turnaound and a vast improvement, this new model looks good from all angles.

     Some minor issues, someone raised concerns about the arrangement of the DTC pick-up bogie, perhaps this can be explored and discussed? Secondly, did my eyes deceive me, but i thought the NRM version was shown with yellow panels in the catalogue? The "Design Clever" roof vents are neatly done, but as expected there is no under-cut, this might bother some to replace them, however a quick fix would be to draw a black line each side. Apart from this i'm 95% satisfied and very happy, they are on to a winner with these models, if they can produce enough, but please Hornby, be nice to all the other shops.

 

                                                                      Cheers, Brian. 

[Budgie]

I owe Hornby an apology. Looking carefully at the motor bogie there are pickups on all four wheels. So why when I apply power does the motor not run? I am going to have to investigate.

[Stevelewis]

I owe Hornby an apology. Looking carefully at the motor bogie there are pickups on all four wheels. So why when I apply power does the motor not run? I am going to have to investigate.

Refer to my previous  post  #726  about  poor soldered  joints  that  could be  the  reason for your problem,  but if the power bogie mounting is the  same  as the 5 BEL then be careful when you  unclip it  as it can drop down suddenly and more joints may break.

 

FYI on the Bel the power bogie is attached by a plastic  swallow tail spigot  the ends are accessable thro a small hole in the top of the chassis, use long nosed pliers to compress the 'tail' of the spigot. lookin at  pics  of the BIL in the  RM  the interior arrangement  looks  the  same  as  the 5BEL

 

But of course  theproblem could bethat  the  pickups are not contacting the wheel backs correctly!

Edited February 17, 2013 by Stevelewis