Hornby Star Class

[mow]

When Steam announced that they were offering a model of Lode Star, what was said about the specification of the model at the time, in terms of detail?

[M.I.B]

But the models are not faulty, they are has Hornby designed and produced and as such are not faulty what they are is a incorrect model of a star loco. so can responsibility rest retailers .

If the front frames resemble a banana, they are faulty.

If Hornby designed them like that they should shut up shop now.

[farren]

how many peoples model have got banana frames? if its just one or two then its just  bad ones you may have unfortunately. if how ever one  are all doing it why are we talking about it send them all back and tell Hornby to stop making rubbish and hiding behind the word cleaver design.  

Edited November 4, 2013 by farren

[Unknown Warrior]

When Steam announced that they were offering a model of Lode Star, what was said about the specification of the model at the time, in terms of detail?

 

The Hornby Catalogue is quite vague about the specification. However the Star was not listed among the new releases to include design clever features.

 

I assumed, always dangerous, that the Star would be manufactured to the high standards we have come to expect from Hornby and that is would be to the same standard as the retooled Castle and 28XX, both of which I have.

 

On that basis I immediately preordered Lode Star from Steam. The alarm bells started ringing for me when the 2-8-0/2-8-2 Tanks arrived with moulded smoke box door darts etc. Thankfully the Star is better than that with just the cab side rails moulded, which I don't feel is acceptable on what has every appearance of being a premium model at a premium price, especially when ordered from Steam. I find it unbelievable that Hornby have fitted the wrong bogie wheels, especially when they already have the correct ones in their parts bin. 

 

I am prepared to pay a premium price for Lode Star as the profits are going to Steam. However I am extremely disappointed that Hornby have failed to deliver a quality model of one of the most important Express Passenger designs of the twentieth century to supply to one of our leading railway museums as a special edition, as well as standard production versions to the trade in general.

 

Hornby perhaps need to look at the high standard special editions supplied by Bachmann to the NRM. The next one, the L&Y 2-4-2T, has every appearance of being an absolute stunner, so much so that it shows every sign of being sold out before the release date! Hornby - "Go and do thou likewise!"

[cary hill]

"Cleaver design" post #570 - this may explain why some of the parts don't fit together as well as expected.

[Mike Riley]

Farren asks how many have banana frames.  I think he means running plates.  Mine is fine in that regard.  I will say in Hornby's favour that my Star and 2-8-0 tank received shortly before the Star run quietly and smoothly.  No problems with wheel quartering or similar issues.  But haulage capability?  Today I coupled the Star to 4 toplights.  These are Slaters with the Slaters bogies - inside bearings and not free running.  The Star wouldn't move them, just sat still spinning its wheels.  8750 (Bachmann) then pulled them out of the station without problem as it normally does.  And the 8750 has had some weight removed to make room for a sound decoder and speaker.

 

Tomorrow I'll clean the wheels again with IPA in case there is some film on the wheel treads left over from the manufacturing process.

 

Mike

[gwrrob]

When Steam announced that they were offering a model of Lode Star, what was said about the specification of the model at the time, in terms of detail?

 

That's a good question and I think the answer is nothing but a lot of people,me included assumed it to be along the lines of the Dapol Western and Hornby Castle limited edtions that everyone was happy with.

[KGV]

The Star wouldn't move them, just sat still spinning its wheels.  

 

Snippet From Wikipedia, quoting: Tuplin, W. A. (1971). Great Western Saints and Sinners:

 

The GWR's directors confronted Churchward, and demanded to know why the LNWR were able to build three 4-6-0 locomotives for the price of two of Churchward's Star's. Churchward allegedly gave a terse response: "Because one of mine could pull two of their bl00dy things backwards!"

 

Seems like Mike's Star does not have the correct scale haulage capacity of the prototype!

[Ozexpatriate]

And Hornby will now count it as 'another perfect model delivered' - it seems that SK only believes that items are faulty if they're returned to Margate and that purchasers are not up to or don't want to solve the problems themselves.

Yes, and in these days of mail-order, either by personal preference, or by requirement* there is a built-in reluctance of buyers to pay the shipping to send things back to the retailer (or directly to the supplier), knowing that it's hard to keep track of such things accurately and not having any guarantee that when you send it back, there will be adequate stock to replace it.

 

* given that so many local hobby shops are now starved of new stock with the supply dribbles that come in, people turn to larger stockists further from home.

 

The twelve-spoke versus ten-spoke wheel is another clanger. It's not life or death, but it's careless and reminds me of the B-set bogies. I wish we had noticed it sooner - it's been hidden in plain sight on the Hornby website for months and months.

Edited November 4, 2013 by Ozexpatriate

[Ozexpatriate]

Regarding returning models; the latest Hornby policy seems to be customers cannot return direct to Hornby. 

Have you confirmed this with Hornby customer service?

[Dunsignalling]

The shop should then offer to get it fixed or better still, replace it with a working version. They can then have a go at the manufacturer. If the shop chooses to put the faulty model back on the shelf, well that's their bad and not the manufacturers and I wouldn't be keen to go back there in the future.

 

Getting a replacement Star would be a bit tricky at my 'local'. Hornby cut his delivery back - to one!

 

John

[B15nac]

Has anyone got anymore close up pictures of the cab area an maybe some of lode star?

 

Regards Neil

[coachmann]

Snippet From Wikipedia, quoting: Tuplin, W. A. (1971). Great Western Saints and Sinners:

 

The GWR's directors confronted Churchward, and demanded to know why the LNWR were able to build three 4-6-0 locomotives for the price of two of Churchward's Star's. Churchward allegedly gave a terse response: "Because one of mine could pull two of their bl00dy things backwards!"

I like these little anedotes though they are often exagerations. The trials took place with an Experiment, not the best LNWR 4-6-0 class, nevertheless, these lightly built engines were working prodigeous loads on a daily basis over the popular West Coast Mainline. I doubt Churchward would have even bothered trialing his Star against a Midland engine.

[Dunsignalling]

Quite a few manufacturers now deal with their faulty products direct. It saves a journey back to the retailer.

It usually says something like: "Do not take a faulty item back to the retailer", then gives a contact number with the manufacturer, who will arrange repair or replacement directly.

 

They have undertaken to take the responsibility from the retailer. It doesn't change the law but can make for a more efficient service system.

 

Keith

It also gives the manufacturer greater control over after-sales backup, hopefully ensuring consistent treatment for customers.

 

John

[The Stationmaster]

That's a good question and I think the answer is nothing but a lot of people,me included assumed it to be along the lines of the Dapol Western and Hornby Castle limited edtions that everyone was happy with.

It was certainly implied that it would be to the same standard as the 'Castle'  (which, so I understood was subject to approval by Steam before they were prepared to accept the final production version) and I assumed - possibly incorrectly - that the same process would apply with Steam's version of the 'Star'.  What we don't seem to know is what the detail situation is with the Steam version apart from the moulded handrails which are common to all three versions as far as I can see.

 

Logically I would assume the 'Castle' tender would come with 4061 but here we hit a new situation with what seems to be Hornby's balkanised production situation with work spread among different factories which , and here I surmise, might not have access to all component parts of something.  I tackled SK about differences between various models and he explained that Hornby don't now use the term 'design clever' but that design is done according to what the engineers and designers consider the best way to produce any given item - with an implication that different designers achieve different solutions (the budget word remaining unsaid but no doubt in there somewhere?).  Net result the differences between the 'Hall' (which we all knew was going to be 'design clever' and the 'Star' (which some of us realised predated design clever in development - as, probably, did the 8 coupled tanks?).  Outcome for the customer being - as I see it - that you don't know what you're getting until you receive it.

 

This takes me back to the matter of 'trust' and my well worn record - it seems to me that with Hornby we can no longer pre-order on reputation or past example alone and we know catalogue illustrations are no guide whatsoever which leaves us relying on reviews and looking at things when they arrive before deciding to order or buy.  Looks like that's going to be the way it is - end of story and fingers crossed.

[gwrrob]

 it seems to me that with Hornby we can no longer pre-order on reputation or past example alone and we know catalogue illustrations are no guide whatsoever which leaves us relying on reviews and looking at things when they arrive before deciding to order or buy.  Looks like that's going to be the way it is - end of story and fingers crossed.

 

Absolutely Mike but the downside to that was late last years Bachmann Wainwright C class superb model release, which sold like hot cakes when someone posted photos on here.

[57xx]

That's a good question and I think the answer is nothing but a lot of people,me included assumed it to be along the lines of the Dapol Western and Hornby Castle limited edtions that everyone was happy with.

 

It's a perfectly valid assumption for a "special edition", I too assumed it, having seen the detail on the Hornby made NRM 2818 which I purchased for 2/3 the price of Lode Star. I am reserving judgement as I don't think there has been any pics an an actual production version of Lode Star anywhere so we could be pleasantly surprised. However it if turns out to be a tarted up regular production run, I could spend £108 for 4018 at Hattons, give a £10 donation to Steam, pay to replace the "correct" bogie wheels myself and still have £20 in my pocket. 

[Ozexpatriate]

I tackled SK about differences between various models and he explained that Hornby don't now use the term 'design clever' but that design is done according to what the engineers and designers consider the best way to produce any given item.

Unsurprisingly. That bit of glibness was a catastrophe from a marketing standpoint.

 

... we know catalogue illustrations are no guide whatsoever ...

True enough, though ironically the Star has a twelve-spoked bogie in the catalogue.

 

This takes me back to the matter of 'trust' and my well worn record - it seems to me that with Hornby we can no longer pre-order on reputation or past example alone.

Sadly so.

[G-BOAF]

Have you confirmed this with Hornby customer service?

yes, by phone.

Clearly the right thing to do is to return faulty items to retailer, but this doesn't work when 'faults' are not one offs!

[G-BOAF]

This takes me back to the matter of 'trust' and my well worn record - it seems to me that with Hornby we can no longer pre-order on reputation or past example alone and we know catalogue illustrations are no guide whatsoever which leaves us relying on reviews and looking at things when they arrive before deciding to order or buy.  Looks like that's going to be the way it is - end of story and fingers crossed.

 

Of course you can 'pre-order' - if you don't you risk missing out - retailer takes pre-order, which bolsters Hornby's order books. Models are delivered, people cancel pre-orders. Retailers left with stock to shift. Risk passed from manufacturer to retailer...

[The Fatadder]

And sales shift from the local shop who wants a credit card number or deposit to the big box shifter who can absorb the cancelations

[robmcg]

Rob - read your PMs!

 

Yes, have replied, Thankyou.

 

I have found two books with reference to Stars doing phenomenal work with heavy express trains,  O S Nock 'The Great Western Railway' An Appreciation  1951 W Heffer & Sons,  with the Appendix detailing a run from Exeter to Paddington at better than 60mph average with 4054 and another from Birmingham to Paddington even faster with 445 tons gross 4063 'Bath Abbey'...  lovely O S Nock prose in both descriptions.

 

In the GWR 150 book 'The Great Western Railway' by Patrick Whitehouse and others ISBN 0 7153 8763 4 there is a chapter called 'A Recorder Remembers' where C J Allen rates performances in the 1920s by Stars higher than those of Kings and Castles, with 500+ ton trains , including sustained 69mph with 515 tons on the level...

 

I am concocting a picture of 4018 right now,..  this is a draft which will offer an idea...

 

 

 

 

Rob

Edited November 4, 2013 by robmcg

[7013]

Sad but true Mike, Hornby can no longer be trusted on pre ordering. Let's face it the world is not going to fall apart if we do not get a particular loco regardless of how desirable it is. I will never pre order from Hornby again unless the standard improves and quality is consistent. The situation with the Wainwright C class is uncommon (I did pre order that one), and Bachmann could almost sell as many of them as they could turn out, whereas the Star I doubt will fly off the shelves. However if I can pick up a non dodgy heavy tank or Star without pre ordering, all well and good, if not then there are plenty of other (Bachmann, Dapol, Heljan etc.) models I can buy.

[OnTheBranchline]

 

A review I found on YouTube of the Lode Star STEAM model.

[Roy P]

Snippet From Wikipedia, quoting: Tuplin, W. A. (1971). Great Western Saints and Sinners:

 

The GWR's directors confronted Churchward, and demanded to know why the LNWR were able to build three 4-6-0 locomotives for the price of two of Churchward's Star's. Churchward allegedly gave a terse response: "Because one of mine could pull two of their bl00dy things backwards!"

 

Seems like Mike's Star does not have the correct scale haulage capacity of the prototype!

Although I doubt that Bachmann could build three LNWR 4-6-0s for the price of a Hornby Star, I wouldn't mind enacting that contest.

RP