Hornby Star Class

[knapper]

If the picture they actually use on the back of the box show 10 spoke wheels, someone who has seen it and has an account could use post a question on hornbys facebook page. They seem pretty good at answering questions posted there, and it'll be interesting to see what they say.

[7013]

The P2 is a different animal, it was always going to be "design clever" and even the special edition is going to come in sub £100 with discount. The sample I saw at Barrow Hill looks promising, the general shape seems right with a decent paint job. At the price it will probably be acceptable.

 

In most of our minds the Star was going to be a high standard model, hence our disappointment.

So we shouldn't get our hopes up then.

[Dunsignalling]

Hey just think in 50 days time we can all be moaning about how bad Hornby's 2014 models are going to be

I think this year's froth may already have curdled..........

 

John

[coachmann]

I remember a time when Hornby was irrelavent to scale modellers. Doesn't seem that long ago either.

[Ian Hargrave]

An idea has been germinating in my head all day and I would like to share it with you,particularly those of you who,like me,have advanced-purchased Lode Star from Steam.I note,from the video clip that a set of etched plates is not present.If not,why not.

A slip of paper and an adorned box sleeve are ALL that differentiate this premium priced article from its sisters in the catalogue.

When I purchased D1000 ,it came with affixed plates and roof details etc.

There is open dissatisfaction with events as they are.Witness the postings on this forum.Mr.Kohler's attitude seems to be 'put up and shut up' Do I read this correctly,colleagues?.

Short of asking for a full refund which I do not propose to do,I am contemplating requesting Steam that,as a gesture of goodwill,they supply to ALL purchasers a set of etched plates...and retrospectively to those who have already received their model.

I believe this fair and equitable

Frankly,we do not have to accept being made monkeys of.Let's do something constructive about it.It won't cost Steam much and they'll recoup an awful lot of goodwill ilf they agree.

[robmcg]

is it just my screen or do the buffer beams look an odd shade of red, almost pink?

perhaps this is better. The greens reds and blues of the railway steam years are definitely an area of um, difference.

 

I might try 1500 x 800 500kB size pics at some stage but find the auto-compression of pics other than 800 pixels-wide rather inclined make pics fuzzy, maybe there is something I am missing? Will do a test here;

800 pixels 140kB

 

 

1500 pixels 427kB

 

Edited November 5, 2013 by robmcg

[KGV]

An idea has been germinating in my head all day and I would like to share it with you,particularly those of you who,like me,have advanced-purchased Lode Star from Steam.I note,from the video clip that a set of etched plates is not present.If not,why not.

A slip of paper and an adorned box sleeve are ALL that differentiate this premium priced article from its sisters in the catalogue.

When I purchased D1000 ,it came with affixed plates and roof details etc.

There is open dissatisfaction with events as they are.Witness the postings on this forum.Mr.Kohler's attitude seems to be 'put up and shut up' Do I read this correctly,colleagues?.

Short of asking for a full refund which I do not propose to do,I am contemplating requesting Steam that,as a gesture of goodwill,they supply to ALL purchasers a set of etched plates...and retrospectively to those who have already received their model.

I believe this fair and equitable

Frankly,we do not have to accept being made monkeys of.Let's do something constructive about it.It won't cost Steam much and they'll recoup an awful lot of goodwill ilf they agree.

 

Remember that STEAM are a charity and their "profit" from the sales will go to the upkeep of the museum.  I am sure that they are as miffed and upset about the continual delays and misinformation from Hornby as everyone else. 

 

I believe that any grievance should be directed where it is due.  At Hornby.

[robmcg]

An idea has been germinating in my head all day and I would like to share it with you,particularly those of you who,like me,have advanced-purchased Lode Star from Steam.I note,from the video clip that a set of etched plates is not present.If not,why not.

A slip of paper and an adorned box sleeve are ALL that differentiate this premium priced article from its sisters in the catalogue.

When I purchased D1000 ,it came with affixed plates and roof details etc.

There is open dissatisfaction with events as they are.Witness the postings on this forum.Mr.Kohler's attitude seems to be 'put up and shut up' Do I read this correctly,colleagues?.

Short of asking for a full refund which I do not propose to do,I am contemplating requesting Steam that,as a gesture of goodwill,they supply to ALL purchasers a set of etched plates...and retrospectively to those who have already received their model.

I believe this fair and equitable

Frankly,we do not have to accept being made monkeys of.Let's do something constructive about it.It won't cost Steam much and they'll recoup an awful lot of goodwill ilf they agree.

All of the above but also I am reminded when I look at the lovely model of 4018 on my desk (more photos to come), how astonishingly GOOD the model is and let down only by front 12-spoked (irrelevant unless pointed-out.. nobody commented when it was in the pre-prod pics) wheels, and in my case some minor details like webbing on spokes. I know it is personal but I don't mind the cab handrails being moulded, and am pleased the smokebox handles are good.

 

The models runs superbly straight out of the box (video shown a few pages ago) and production has been in spite of Kader going broke, and I think it is very good value and while details which are wrong should be fixed there is not much wrong with the product which is cheap with today's productions costs.

 

My sympathies are with SK even if he was a bit less than accepting of the faults which were explained to him. Faults are common with this level of short-run high-detail production and I for one want to APPLAUD Hornby for producing this beautiful model. Which I can improve-on if I wish. I like my TMC-weathered 72XX too, which was £150.00.

 

Rob

Edited November 5, 2013 by robmcg

[Dunsignalling]

This lack of vertical travel is not unfamiliar in OO models, and something of a standing peril now that most RTR - including this model - has moved closer to fine scale proportions. I would rather have this correctable glitch, than the loco body positioned a good 2mm higher above the driving axles centres than scale, which was the typical 'bad old days' fix.

 

Think they still have enough 'mindshare' in the UK rtr market not to worry unduly about the 10% ( - any better number anyone? ) of the customer base that wants to see at least a match to and ideally progress from the best preceeding model. This model is still streets ahead of anything produced at Margate.

 

If it were my business, the strategy would be to keep the options open. I was in this sort of discussion in the circa 1990 downturn, translated into model railway product it might go like this: Right now, we have to cope with both a difficult trading environment and bringing on some less experienced manufacturing vendors. Some defeaturing is going to contain cost and make the situation more manageable. Obviously we will have to understand how the defeatured product goes down with the customers. If it still flies commercially, well and good. If it is clear that there are significant lost sales as a result of the defeaturing, then just as soon as one or more of the manufacturing vendors have the capability we will resume at the best previous standard we attained.

"Defeaturing" as such, isn't really the issue that's been invading so many nostrils, many of us used to be perfectly happy buying or making the extra bits and fitting them ourselves; it's just that we've got used to Hornby doing it for us!

 

What rankles is that Hornby appear to be doing it in a random fashion so that nobody knows what they will do on the next model.

 

I pre-ordered numerous Bulleid Pacifics, King Arthurs, Schools, T9s and M7s, plus a Grange and a Britannia fully confident of what I'd receive.

 

I've got my name down for a Sentinel (how much can they dumb that down?) and 'Okehampton' (which will hopefully be the same as my other WCs) this year/next but I'll not be pre-ordering any £120+ all-new models sight unseen as things stand.

 

As to whether or not Hornby are "bovvered" by the reaction of the (alleged) "10%"; in depressed market conditions, every customer you hang on to keeps your nose a millimetre further above the water.

 

Moreover, even if we are only 10% of their customers, we must be much more measured by sales or Hornby wouldn't have expended so much effort in our direction for the last decade.

 

Hornby remain No.1 in the "Train Set" market and it could be that, for the "new brooms", that will be enough. If, however, they wish to maintain (or regain) that position in the "Model Railway" segment, they badly need an injection of predictability.

 

John

Edited November 5, 2013 by Dunsignalling

[The Stationmaster]

perhaps this is better. The greens reds and blues of the railway steam years are definitely an area of um, difference.

 

I might try 1500 x 800 500kB size pics at some stage but find the auto-compression of pics other than 800 pixels-wide rather inclined make pics fuzzy, maybe there is something I am missing? Will do a test here;

800 pixels 140kB

 

4018_Star_GWR_7ab_r800a.jpg

 

1500 pixels 427kB

 

4018_Star_GWR_7ab_r1500.jpg

The big one opens ok for me Rob - and looks a lot better.

[Paul Cram]

I remember a time when Hornby was irrelavent to scale modellers. Doesn't seem that long ago either.

It still is

[The Stationmaster]

An idea has been germinating in my head all day and I would like to share it with you,particularly those of you who,like me,have advanced-purchased Lode Star from Steam.I note,from the video clip that a set of etched plates is not present.If not,why not.

A slip of paper and an adorned box sleeve are ALL that differentiate this premium priced article from its sisters in the catalogue.

When I purchased D1000 ,it came with affixed plates and roof details etc.

There is open dissatisfaction with events as they are.Witness the postings on this forum.Mr.Kohler's attitude seems to be 'put up and shut up' Do I read this correctly,colleagues?.

Short of asking for a full refund which I do not propose to do,I am contemplating requesting Steam that,as a gesture of goodwill,they supply to ALL purchasers a set of etched plates...and retrospectively to those who have already received their model.

I believe this fair and equitable

Frankly,we do not have to accept being made monkeys of.Let's do something constructive about it.It won't cost Steam much and they'll recoup an awful lot of goodwill ilf they agree.

The big question is then 'what did Steam promise?'  And there I think your idea might be on dodgy ground - whilst we were told it was going to be, if I remember rightly, 'a cracking model' we were not told and it was not sold on the basis that it would have etched plates - simply that it would be an edition exclusive to Steam (which it would appear to be).

 

My own understanding was that they would take the same degree of care in approval as they had with the 'Castle' - but that was an understanding (or misunderstanding?) on my part and I certainly don't recall it as a written commitment but I would have hoped that the detail would be correct and bogie wheels are a pretty obvious detail on most GW 4-6-0s.  Equally Steam might  - for all we know - have expected Hornby to get it right based on experience with the 'Castle', i.e. their expectations were on a par with ours.

 

I did have a little bit of information regarding the pricing and my understanding was that it is based on the 'exclusive' nature of the product rather than anything else although I had the impression that it would include distinctive packaging (which appears to be the case in respect of the outer slip casing).

 

If Steam 'owe' us anything my view is that it would be limited to the correct pattern of bogie wheels and that in any event that is far more Hornby's responsibility than Steam's, I certainly don't feel we are owed, and nor did I expect, etched plates.

[gwrrob]

 

If Steam 'owe' us anything my view is that it would be limited to the correct pattern of bogie wheels and that in any event that is far more Hornby's responsibility than Steam's, I certainly don't feel we are owed, and nor did I expect, etched plates.

 

Yes but I was expecting etched plates and a certificate with this limited edition.Still no reply from Geoff Davies on the subject.

[didcot]

Well I for one like it.

Mine ran nicely on its short test. I am a GWR man through and through, but wouldnt have spotted the spokes. The hand rails don't look too bad. I for one am greatfull that Hornby have listened to modellers and produced the heavy freight tanks and Star. I dont have time to build models with a young family. I would rather have one with 12 spokes and runs nicely than none at all . If it perfomed like the locos of my 1970's childhood I might have a problem.

 

I am also looking forward to Lode Star. I believe I am 17th in the queue.

 

At the end of the day its a hobby for most of us, something to enjoy and help us unwind.

 

didcot

[Downer]

I used to be a rivet counter, but now I'm counting spokes. 

[Siberian Snooper]

I think after all of this I shall go back to kit building/bashing. I was going to buy the 42XX, but after the dogs breakfast Hornby made of it I have decided that I will stick with the PDK kit that I purchased just before the Hornby announcement. I would also have purchased a 72XX, although it is outside the period I model I would have invoked rule 1, as I do like the beast's.

 

Hornby will have to do a lot better before they get anymore of my hard earned dosh after the recent slide in standards and the cavalier attitude of Simon kohler to the incorrect number of spokes on the bogie wheels. Steam will still get my readies for the 2 Stars on pre-order.

 

SS

[robmcg]

Being an idle beggar whose sole preorder to date has been the NRM/Bach DP1 (it had to be better than my kit build, and this is an essential Southern ECML circa 1960 item) I almost always follows this good advice. But have thereby failed to acquire a BR liveried GER shortie tender B17 which must have sold very quickly, and wondering when a few more might hit the shelves.

 

And of course, what the build will be like. Will it still match the first batch(es) and look as well as those I saw at Warley, and the other three of the toothsome quartet in my possession (B1, L1, O1)? In which case, firstly Hornby still have the manufacturing capability available (good news), and this part of Hornby's potential customer base will still be living in the happy land of Allcontent...

Ah, what a conundrum. First-run , with maybe some detail errors or even major shortcomings, or subsequent runs where things are 'fixed'. With the chimneys on Hornby rebuilt Scots/Patriots I still, to this day, cannot see the difference between the 'wrong' ones and the later ones, (I have several, first-run and later). I do know that the appearance of chimney varies with light, and photographic 'glare', also that the chimney of the Britannia isn't the best, but read few comments at the time. People who wanted better just got on with it and bought better cast/turned chimneys.

 

What to replace of the Star? Front wheels. Maybe make cab handrails, (which varied in height so you might want to customise this)... your choice. What you get from Hornby is still good in my opinion, starting new production capacity after the Kader thing would not be easy. Even in China it is hard to find reliable well-trained skilled people, much discussed in other threads.

 

That's not to say the shortcomings of the model ought not be pointed out.

 

My bet is that subsequent runs of Star class engines will have 10-spoke wheels. Sooner or later, depending on how the manufacturing of these models is organised.

[57xx]

 

perhaps this is better. The greens reds and blues of the railway steam years are definitely an area of um, difference.

 

 

Rob #1, I was referring to the video when I made my initial comment although your pic does show this up as well. I think the colour just looks too pale on the actual model. Having said that, my one and only Hornby loco is similarly (although not looking as bad) lighter than all my other locos.

 

 

Yes but I was expecting etched plates and a certificate with this limited edition.Still no reply from Geoff Davies on the subject.

 

Wire handrails all round and the correct pattern buffers for the loco alluded to being represented by this "special edition" would have been nice too. I was hoping for more than a few dabs of silver paint and a different name on the side for my extra £40. I certainly didn't expect to have to take a knife to it and splash out on replacement items just to get the basics right!

 

Whilst it does look "nice", it is not what was expected. The trouble is with people going ahead with buying it, is that Hornby will then think they are justified in saying they got it right and future models will suffer the same reduction in fidelity as we have witnessed here and on other recent models. I've learnt my lesson on this one and will be leaving Hornby to their toy trains in future. 

[robmcg]

Maybe the collector's market will put a premium price on my early-run 12-spoke Star?

 

Yours,

 

Stamp Collector

[Coach bogie]

Yes but I was expecting etched plates and a certificate with this limited edition.Still no reply from Geoff Davies on the subject.

 

I had no expectation of etched plates as it is not mentioned in the promotional material.I even purchased a set of ModelMaster plates some time back for the same reason.

 

Exclusive to the STEAM Museum this iconic GWR loco complete with numbered certificate of authenticity and our eyecatching packaging, will grace your layout as a running example of the GWR 4 cylinder lineage. DCC ready

NOTE THIS LOCO IS SCHEDULED TO BE AVAILABLE FROM MID NOVEMBER. ORDER NOW TO BE SURE OF YOURS,

 

Clearly we will all be getting the certificate though.

 

Mike Wiltshire

[Miss Prism]

My brainset has long avoided looking at Hornby wheels because they are always horrible, and Hornby is simply not the type of outfit to have a discussion about when a prototype was changed from crankpin on spoke to crankpin between spoke. You'll be wanting proper connecting rod and slidebar thicknesses next, and then some real springs so that it can haul a decent train...

 

Anyway, apart from a couple of obvious and avoidable bloopers, Lode Star looks very good IMO as a gaudy replica of the tarted up preserved thing, which seems to be what the RTR market is perceived to want/expect.

 

With the 'design clever' notion now exposed as an inconsistent charade, it will be interesting to see what kind of narrative the mags are going to hang their reviews on.

 

 

[6959]

 

External link to picture of real 4018 showing that cab rail is below boiler handrail, not in line as per Hornby model. Apologies if it was mentioned before and I missed it. http://www.warwickshirerailways.com/gwr/gwrls162.htm

 

 

A comment in another post saying that the Hornby 4018 has a flush sided ['welded'] water tank made me have another look at this photo of the real 4018 which has a riveted tank like the Hornby Granges. R4018 also has the lamp iron on top of the smokebox instead of being lower on the door.

[robmcg]

The lamp iron is on top of the smokebox as it should be in GWR days.

 

Here is a sharpish pic of the model with all its faults; I have started tidying the background, also reset the cylinders about 1 degree, and widened the gauge a tad, but otherwise it is an honest pic as it came out of the box. (3 pics used and pasted together for focus)

 

IT shows when opened the degree to which the cab handrails are visibly a drawback, or not, and I think the proportions are excellent and 'get' the GWR character of the engine BEAUTIFULLY.

 

 

edit; the front running plate is as-supplied, no bend visible to me, the tapered variation in width of overhang of running plate over front frame extension might exacerbate a shadow here and make things look a bit odd, this happens with some other engines too.

 

The modelling of the clasped boiler-band strap number 2 at the top must be a first?

Edited November 5, 2013 by robmcg

[Ian Hargrave]

Well at least that has aired the subject. Of course I am aware of Steam's charitable status...this is not the issue.I have indeed aired the matter of etched plates twice previously on this thread.The silence was deafening.It is a pity,is it not,that those of you aware of the lack of plates did not choose to acquaint us of the matter before now? I actually used the word 'goodwill'...not debt.

It still does not explain the discrepancy between the finish of D1000 and Lode Star....other than the obvious of it being two different brands.Some consistency is surely lacking here.

The differences of opinion between Mr.Kohler and various members of this forum are well-documented and I will neither revisit it nor approach him on the matter.

Like it or not,this is a commission from Steam and is marketed by them.Sorry..I expect more than the slip case and a slip of paper.This stretches the bounds of credibility and a sense of proportion.

[Miss Prism]

A comment in another post saying that the Hornby 4018 has a flush sided ['welded'] water tank made me have another look at this photo of the real 4018 which has a riveted tank like the Hornby Granges. R4018 also has the lamp iron on top of the smokebox instead of being lower on the door.

 

4018 in 1938 did have a snaphead riveted tender, but a few years earlier was running with a flush-riveted tender. (Not 'welded', please.) Which I hope emphasises the point about tender swapping discussed previously in the thread. 

 

4018's top lamp iron had been lowered by its shirtbutton era, so that is incorrect on the Hornby model.