Hornby P2

[gr.king]

Graeme that really does look the canine's wotsits - it just sits beautifully - when are you getting into production?

 

I'm afraid it's a one-off.

[John Tomlinson]

Can I ask please, if I was to ever modify the front of a P2 chassis to make a 4-8-2 a far easier way than joining 2 chassis together, I know the cylinders would have to me removed to avoid slicing them to bits nut would the leading set of driving wheels also need to be taken out of the block to avoid destroying them.

 

Also I am still trying to figure out the best way to modify the rear of the chassis at the cab end to allow flanged wheels to be used so that it will steer in a more realistic way when running backwatds

 

I can't lay my hands on my P2 at present (can't have lost it!), but if the wheels release by undoing a keeper plate under the chassis, then this seems the safest and simple thing to do.

 

The valve gear should also come off when you take out the cylinders, having undone the nut at the end of the connecting rod where it attaches to the wheels. If any of the worm or gears are open I'd cover them with masking tape while you do your work, to keep out filings and other muck.

 

Is it not possible to use the existing pony screw fitting into the chassis, and have a long strip forward from this to the middle of your new bogie?

 

John.

[melmerby]

 

 

Also I am still trying to figure out the best way to modify the rear of the chassis at the cab end to allow flanged wheels to be used so that it will steer in a more realistic way when running backwatds

You will need to saw off the "bogie" as it is a part of the chassis.

 

Keith

[The Black Hat]

Hello all,

 

Charlie made his exhibition debut at the weekend, alongside the other engines in the New North Eastern Railway fleet. Here he is seen sat alongside fleet member and brother 60603 Eleventh Earl of Mar.

 

 

 

Edited October 8, 2018 by The Black Hat

[bigwordsmith]

Looks very smart - I really fancy having a go at this, but not sure I'm brave enough....

 

[Corbs]

I have this stalled project in my 'to do' pile.

[The Black Hat]

I have this stalled project in my 'to do' pile.

fullsizeoutput_1fe2.jpeg

 

Have you redone the motion on that one?

[Corbs]

Have you redone the motion on that one?

It's V2 motion, in the photo it's black-tacked to the loco, trying to figure out how to mount the motion was why the project stalled.

 

I should add that the front end is a Graeme King resin piece grafted onto a Hornby Tornado body.

Edited October 8, 2018 by Corbs

[Corbs]

Hey Corbs, long time no speak

 

I have just seen on the wright writes thread a picture of a P2 fitted with the valve gear of a Bachmann A2 instead of the V2 valve gear that I mistakenly thought would work on your P2 Project.

 

The A2 valve gear sits much better on the loco.

 

Bachmann A2 cylinders might be required aswell but as both locos had 6' 2" driving wheels it shouldn't cause any issues with the valve gear working.

 

Ahhh thanks dude! I'll have a look

[gr.king]

Don't overlooked the crucial point, which is that the A2 valve gear fitted to that loco is modified.

 

It will almost certainly involve the same changes that I had to make in order to use such valve gear years ago on my first A2/3 conversions, i.e. shortening the con-rod (which is reluctant to take solder), the eccentric rod and possibly the valve radius rod too. If you don't do such things the basic A2 valve gear is even longer than the V2 gear and either won't fit a proper P2 model at all or will look even more cramped up that the V2 gear.

[gr.king]

There is no direct-fit RTR valve gear of suitable size as far as I know, that's why a set of etched parts for assembly by those attempting such conversions was created.

[TravisM]

I’m really hoping that Hornby re-release a full fat version of the P2 as 2007 “Prince of Wales” when the real loco finally emerges in all its glory.

[micklner]

Mons Meg using Graeme Kings Resin front end and valve gear.

 

 

[Bernard Lamb]

I’m really hoping that Hornby re-release a full fat version of the P2 as 2007 “Prince of Wales” when the real loco finally emerges in all its glory.

 

Hornby have never made a full fat version.

To do so would require  totally new tooling for the body.

A re-issue of the original better of the two versions might be viable. But at what price point would you pitch it? A new up to date body? I think not. 

With the current models of prestige locomotives things have moved on.

Take a look at the new Duchess or the forthcoming Lizzie.

Bernard

[drmditch]

Mons Meg using Graeme Kings Resin front end and valve gear.

 

 

IMG_5171.JPG

 

Excellent. Thank you. 

I have one of these to make as well.

I follow Mr King's thread on the LNER forum, but do you have advice from experience which would be useful?

[gr.king]

If you can find where to look, and happen to look at the right time, batches of Hornby motors such as those out of the "best" Chinese versions of the Gresley Pacifics can be had from web sources for a fraction of the official Hornby direct sales prices or approved spares suppliers' prices.

 

I put a bargain example into a P2 almost two years ago, retaining it with something a little more resilient that cyano-acrylate:

 

https://www.lner.info/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2443&start=4455#p122182

[micklner]

Excellent. Thank you. 

I have one of these to make as well.

I follow Mr King's thread on the LNER forum, but do you have advice from experience which would be useful?

 

Graeme will assist with instructions  for the build, if you do not have them already. The hardest bit was the parabolic curve on the nose, Modelmaster do a BR A4 decal , I painted out the white line nearest the front of the Loco.  Otherwise a fairly easy build, let us know re any problems.

 

Mick

[Bon Accord]

Mons Meg using Graeme Kings Resin front end and valve gear.

 

 

IMG_5171.JPG

Mick,

I've yet to see you turn out a model that can be described as anything other than excellent, but Mons Meg really looks superb.

[bigwordsmith]

I wondered about using RTR valve gear as well, especially after I met Mark Allott when they were staring the Prince of Wales project and he told me that the P2, was basically a V2 with a bigger boiler and an extra pair of driving wheels.

 

In fact they redesign the pony truck and Cartazzi for Price of Wales to match a V2's, so in theory it should fit.

 

Tony Wright built a brass one and found he had to skim off some of the wheels flanges, but he's very clever at doing brass assemblies - way beyond my skill level!

[Paul_sterling]

41 minutes ago, bigwordsmith said:

I wondered about using RTR valve gear as well, especially after I met Mark Allott when they were staring the Prince of Wales project and he told me that the P2, was basically a V2 with a bigger boiler and an extra pair of driving wheels.

 

In fact they redesign the pony truck and Cartazzi for Price of Wales to match a V2's, so in theory it should fit.

 

Tony Wright built a brass one and found he had to skim off some of the wheels flanges, but he's very clever at doing brass assemblies - way beyond my skill level!

 

I can see where Mark is coming from in saying the P2 is a big V2, they were designed around a similar time, and concepts like the Monobloc was utilised on both, I'd never really given the similarities much thought. In respect of RTR valve gear (presumably Walschearts), would a Bachmann A2 not be closer to the mark? The Thompson A2 owed its arrangement to retaining the connecting rods from the P2, and a number of the dimensions on the Peppercorn A2 were parented from the Thompson A2 (just ditching the internal rod of equal length theory). 

 

Thanks, Paul. 

[bigwordsmith]

Interesting point @Paul_sterling a bit above my head each knowLedge, there’s only one way to find out though!

[Paul_sterling]

29 minutes ago, bigwordsmith said:

Interesting point @Paul_sterling a bit above my head each knowLedge, there’s only one way to find out though!

 

I can just imagine it "Hi Jeremy, yes me again, I was just wondering if I could pop down to Crewe with a Tape measure......hello?..........hello?"

 

"Hi Mark, Yeah i'm just popping over to measure PofW again, what, restraining order........... nah you must have me mixed up with someone else............."

[Paul_sterling]

Sort of. If they all had the same stroke, the throws of the crank will be the same, but the length of the connecting rods have no bearing on this, they are set based off the distance from the cylinder to the driving axle. In this instance I don't believe the connecting rods are the same length between the P2 and V2, as although both drove the second axle, and had 6'2" wheels, if you look at a P2, the wheels are bunched tightly together, whereas the V2 has a spread out wheelbase. 

 

Paul. 

 

 

[gr.king]

Driving wheel size is irrelevant regarding potential for interchange of valve gear parts. The comparison between V2 valve gear and P2 valve gear has been discussed more than once and I'm sure that anybody looking for the discussion would not have to look very far to find it.

All of the main fore-aft rods in the V2 motion are significantly longer than those in the P2, and the V2 motion has the reversing lever well-behind the expansion link and motion bracket, whereas the those last thee items are interlaced on the P2 and are therefore of a different form. The valve gear is not the same in either real or in model form. It may be possible to fit model V2 valve gear "as it comes" to a model P2 and get it to work without jamming, but it will not look right as items such as the combination lever and the expansion link, which ought to stand upright at their mid-points of movement, will be permanently pushed-over at an angle, giving the gear a squashed-up, zig-zag appearance, and the reversing lever will simply be in the wrong place, quite possibly over the face of a coupled wheel - an impossible location in real loco.

[bigwordsmith]

12 minutes ago, gr.king said:

Driving wheel size is irrelevant regarding potential for interchange of valve gear parts. The comparison between V2 valve gear and P2 valve gear has been discussed more than once and I'm sure that anybody looking for the discussion would not have to look very far to find it.

All of the main fore-aft rods in the V2 motion are significantly longer than those in the P2, and the V2 motion has the reversing lever well-behind the expansion link and motion bracket, whereas the those last thee items are interlaced on the P2 and are therefore of a different form. The valve gear is not the same in either real or in model form. It may be possible to fit model V2 valve gear "as it comes" to a model P2 and get it to work without jamming, but it will not look right as items such as the combination lever and the expansion link, which ought to stand upright at their mid-points of movement, will be permanently pushed-over at an angle, giving the gear a squashed-up, zig-zag appearance, and the reversing lever will simply be in the wrong place, quite possibly over the face of a coupled wheel - an impossible location in real loco.

 

THanks for that sanity Graeme

 

I bought one of your mod kits a couple of years back and baulked at the valve gear assembly - plastic bashing I can do all day, but my sorts at soldering look like cheap welding, so I'm login to need someone to stick it all together for me when I get back to having a live model - any suggestions?