buffalo Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 (edited) ...not too sure where the grey reference came from.Little more than a guess, really, David. Suggestions for a grey as a possible colour include the surviving 19th century crane at Didcot which shows little sign of any other colour, the availability of a grey amongst Swindon paint lists and, apart from the 1974 Vaughan photo, the Newbury crane looks to me to be a bit different from the dark stone or chocolate in the photo. Nick Edited July 20, 2013 by buffalo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold wenlock Posted July 20, 2013 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted July 20, 2013 Hi Ian, I've not really got anything new to contribute regarding the internal colour scheme, but would like to say that the goods shed is looking great! Have you got any other pictures of the model? I for one would love to see some, it would make a great blog entry! Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Smith Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 (edited) Thankyou for your input guys. I have looked once again at the threads you've all highlighed. If I paint the window frames chocolate (and the goods office door), what colour(s) do we think that the large rail and road doors would be, would they also be chocolate or light stone with dark framing? Dave, I've not put anything on my blog for ages, I've tended to add entries in the 2mm section. A couple of entries relating to the goods shed are here : http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/65499-whats-on-your-2mm-work-bench/?p=1098981 and here : http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/65499-whats-on-your-2mm-work-bench/?p=1102447 Thanks. Ian Edited July 20, 2013 by Ian Smith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
micknich2003 Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 I have nothing on the actual GW poster boards, but I do have here an interesting article scanned out of an early '60's Model Railway News on poster sizes. This describes how several standard size sheets made up into various larger sized posters etc, and also gives the standard poster board sizes etc. Contact me micknich2003@yahoo.co.uk if you think a copy of interest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalo Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 A couple of contrasting examples of exterior doors: Bishop's Lydeard, undated but prob. no later than 1920s, matchboard end wall in very pale colour, could be white but prob. light stone as it looks the same as lighter part of station awning, large double doors like lower half of stable doors in same colour as wooden fencing on platform, prob. dark stone, dark hinge straps on doors (chocolate?). Congresbury c1904, end doors look white but photo is a bit over-exposed resulting in similar barge boards and awning on station so could be light stone. I don't think Edwardians liked to waste their film on goods shes, but when they did the doors are usually open Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wagonman Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 Just a thought... wouldn't the ironwork have been black? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalo Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 Just a thought... wouldn't the ironwork have been black?The hinge straps? Quite likely, but I've seen dark stone straps on a white yard gate that clearly contrast with the black ironwork on an adjacent level crossing gate (Monkton Combe, c1910). Nick 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 57xx Posted July 22, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 22, 2013 Thankyou for your input guys. I have looked once again at the threads you've all highlighed. If I paint the window frames chocolate (and the goods office door), what colour(s) do we think that the large rail and road doors would be, would they also be chocolate or light stone with dark framing? Hi Ian, Paul Karau's Great Western Branchline Termini has a couple of good shots of the shed circa 1907-9. The doors are light stone with dark stone framing (framing being the outer planks on each door). There are no shots of the windows, but judging by the other period shots of the main building, they would be chocolate. Just a thought... wouldn't the ironwork have been black? Looking at the 1907 photo, yes. The ironwork hanging the doors to the runners (sliding doors at Moretonhampstead) appear darker than the dark stone, so entirely feasable it is black. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium TheQ Posted July 22, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 22, 2013 I've just come across this thread, and I would observe that the photo on post 45, Has what appears to be the later parallel sided milk churns on the platform, unlike the older conical ones shown in post 75 which would help dating the picture in post 45.. My only other note is that the MSWJR also used something like light stone dark stone on valences, but when taken over by GWR, certainly by photographic evidence I've seen, by the 30's they had gone all White. The Q Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalo Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 I've just come across this thread, and I would observe that the photo on post 45, Has what appears to be the later parallel sided milk churns on the platform, unlike the older conical ones shown in post 75 which would help dating the picture in post 45. Well spotted! IIRC the parallel-sided churns were introduced in the early thirties so perhaps the stipey valance lasted a bit longer than folk thought. My only other note is that the MSWJR also used something like light stone dark stone on valences, but when taken over by GWR, certainly by photographic evidence I've seen, by the 30's they had gone all White. There's an interesting collection of MSWJR photos starting here, some showing the early stripey valances, but I'm not sure why you think the post-grouping ones are white. To me they look like very conventional light/dark stone. For example here. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Prism Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 Well spotted! IIRC the parallel-sided churns were introduced in the early thirties so perhaps the stipey valance lasted a bit longer than folk thought. Although far outnumbered by the conical churn, small (probably 10-gallon) parallel-sided churns did exist in the early '20s, so I think DC's date ascription of the second pic in post #37 is correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalo Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 Although far outnumbered by the conical churn, small (probably 10-gallon) parallel-sided churns did exist in the early '20s, so I think DC's date ascription of the second pic in post #37 is correct. That's interesting, I'd not noticed the 10gal churns in that photo before. Mind you, at the bottom of the churns page, it does say Conical churns began to be superseded by the 10-gallon parallel-sided cylindrical type of churn introduced in the 1930s... That and this site are the only sources I've found for their introduction date. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Prism Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 Hmmm! I'll have to revisit that last para of the churns page - the volume of the later, larger, parallel-sided churn probably isn't right. I have tried to find some typical dimensions, but to no avail as yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium TheQ Posted July 23, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 23, 2013 Well spotted! IIRC the parallel-sided churns were introduced in the early thirties so perhaps the stipey valance lasted a bit longer than folk thought. There's an interesting collection of MSWJR photos starting here, some showing the early stripey valances, but I'm not sure why you think the post-grouping ones are white. To me they look like very conventional light/dark stone. For example here. Nick Going slightly off topic as the MSWJR only became GWR after 1923, and not on the line the originator was discussing, The photo that comes up first from the Burbage site is pre 1923, so try this one of Ludgershall about 1930 from the swindonsotherrailway site contributed by Mike Barnsley http://www.swindonsotherrailway.co.uk/mike188.jpg I've got copies from the Burbage site and Swindons Other Railway Site and any other I can find, on my computer at home, as I am researching to build Ludgershall 1940, but want to be able to back date it to 1923 ish Thanks Q Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Bigcheeseplant Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 I keep looking at more books and photos trying to figure out when the change from Chocolate to white windows was made, by the 1930s white sashes seem almost universal white the period up to 1910-1919 the chocolate seems to be the applied colour, so the change must be between 1920 and 1930ish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalo Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 Going slightly off topic as the MSWJR only became GWR after 1923, and not on the line the originator was discussing... Don't worry about that, we've long moved on from Dave's original question. The photo that comes up first from the Burbage site is pre 1923, so try this one of Ludgershall about 1930 from the swindonsotherrailway site contributed by Mike Barnsley http://www.swindonsotherrailway.co.uk/mike188.jpg For the end valance facing the camera, I would suggest light stone with dark stone on the upper horizontal piece. It's definitely not white, compare it with the posters on the end wall. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium TheQ Posted July 23, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 23, 2013 Don't worry about that, we've long moved on from Dave's original question. For the end valance facing the camera, I would suggest light stone with dark stone on the upper horizontal piece. It's definitely not white, compare it with the posters on the end wall. Nick I agree I should have said all light not white ( meaning not alternate light stone dark stone), and since GWR used light stone that would be it, I must admit I hadn't notice the top plank being a darker colour, I'll have to remember that when the station building is ready for painting just the basic shell done so far. The Q Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Bigcheeseplant Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 I have just received a new book "Great Western Railway structure colours 1912-1947 from official Sources by Richard North and published by the Great Western Study group" it is quite a book with 88 pages, although I have only just flicked through and not read it in detail it does look good, It seems that tint No. 4 was in use from early on and was changed to a brighter colour a maroon brown although keeping the name tint No. 4, no mention is made of the four colour application with chocolate doors and window sashes as discussed in this thread although I may have missed it. One thing it does confirm is that colours were brought in and not mixed on site listing the suppliers and make up of the paint so there would have been little variation in the colours. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Mikkel Posted April 2, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 2, 2014 Just as a Little aside to this thread, I was looking through some Flickr Collections today and came across some pictures/postcards that illustrate nicely why it's problematic to rely on colourized postcards for livery references: Black and White: https://www.flickr.com/photos/33650137@N05/8399533601/in/photolist-dNeNGR-dyjJfw-dtvMou-ajNGWL-cYq4QE-cYq5oy-cYq61Q-9rbmUC-9vfYdy-auWs7V-dLyn1x-9vfYco-eLHq8H-eLUNFG-eLHrDx-9m9NDo-bjTZ9r-8e4Gu3-7ViUAC-hLRfyK-bghJdp-8pL7nf-b5Y3mp-8VbSn3-9Tv6S5-8V8Nhg-gBnGi9-8Vc49J-hLRfsc-8dYBL4-cDvK4w-hLSbiN-bjU1Hi-7zsX5u-8QupQv-7zsWij-7zp9Pa-7zp9bR-7zsXNu-7zp8xe-bgiGMM-8r5LYe-brnLVu-cwNx9b-cwNwF7-cYq4gL-fsc9q8-9JWEsv-8xsVez-7zpaBD-d2y61U Colourized interpretation 1: https://www.flickr.com/photos/39771107@N08/4262474365/lightbox/?w=39771107@N08&q=gwr Colourized interpretation 2: https://www.flickr.com/photos/39771107@N08/4176336173/in/photolist-7n3Pf6-7ncCN8-7neeJe-7nh1Rs-7nhPuw-7nH7h4-7oqP9n-7orG5P-7ovpws-7oCbri-7oDVwF-7oEGUn-7oJ1iy-7oJpV9-7oJPnf-7pDsZF-7pDK6v-7pFw2E-7pFUtA-7pW4HY-7rAKnx-7rAKqV-7rEGeq-7rRVAt-7rUKfu-7rW9mE-7t9eP8-7ukmWa-7vbkAR-7vGxpG-7vLJeu-7vQkNP-7vSzLv-7vWfGu-7w8oAb-7JiUaE-azshpt-8vN9zD-9nJor9-7JiUaJ-7N9q4u-7JiUaC-8pL7nf-7N9q4E-8vN9zB-84xLjg-7VRpVp-a8n3dj-a8n3bC-a8n3fy-8fpmbb Looking closely at the people in the background shows that all are the same photo. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Bigcheeseplant Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/gallery/image/52409-blogentry-5869-0-67722200-1358517373-thumb1/ This model seems to have been painted in the early structure colours with chocolate windows and doors and to my mind looks spot on, and entirely different to how the later period stone colours were applied. David 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalo Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 Yes, it's superb. See also Dave's blog entry and construction details in preceding entries. What I particularly like is the presence of the timber strips on the walls to support the posters, very obvious in photos but rarely seen on models. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Mikkel Posted January 25, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 25, 2015 http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/gallery/image/52409-blogentry-5869-0-67722200-1358517373-thumb1/ This model seems to have been painted in the early structure colours with chocolate windows and doors and to my mind looks spot on, and entirely different to how the later period stone colours were applied. David Dave is the originator of this thread, so has probably taken his cue from here. I certainly will too on future buildings (where appropriate). I know that not everyone agrees with the chocolate windows theory, but personally I find the evidence convincing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Bigcheeseplant Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 Dave is the originator of this thread, so has probably taken his cue from here. I certainly will too on future buildings (where appropriate). I know that not everyone agrees with the chocolate windows theory, but personally I find the evidence convincing. I should have noticed that! The building looks great and in the early colours it really looks nice. On some layouts that have been set in the Victorian and Edwardian period and have GWR buildings painted in the later style look quite odd to my mind. I look forward to seeing a 517 with Indian red frames running in to a GWR station with the earlier structure colour application. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Mikkel Posted January 25, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 25, 2015 On some layouts that have been set in the Victorian and Edwardian period and have GWR buildings painted in the later style Mine included I'm afraid, I claim ignorance at the time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Smith Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 On some layouts that have been set in the Victorian and Edwardian period and have GWR buildings painted in the later style look quite odd to my mind. I look forward to seeing a 517 with Indian red frames running in to a GWR station with the earlier structure colour application. Hopefully I will be able to satisfy your desire at some point, although an open cab 517 will be a challenge in 2FS - will a Metro Tank do? :-) Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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