RMweb Gold Barry Ten Posted January 4, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 4, 2013 This is a general issue with the newer Digitrax decoders - the circuit board is thinner and more flexible and doesn't always make good contact. My solution is the second one - build up the contact pads with a dab of solder, it only needs a tiny amount. After the experience with my SD70s (they worked fine with the body off but refused to run with the body on) I've taken to adding the solder dabs as a matter of course. Adrian That would explain why I had so many problems with the P42 compared to the E8. Wish these things would just *work* the way they're meant to - isn't that the point of them being "drop-in"? Grrr... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Wintle Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 I don't suppose you have photos? This will be my first DCC layout. Best, Pete. I'll see what I can do this weekend, but until then, from the Digitrax website: http://www.digitrax.com/products/mobile-decoders/dn163k1c/ The two pads on the left-hand end each need a dab of solder on the top. Although the Digitrax instructions say SD40-2, this decoder is the one for almost all the new Kato hood units (except the SD80/90). This has the installation instructions to give you an idea of how it works: http://www.digitrax.com/static/apps/products/mobile-decoders/dn163k1c/documents/DN163K1C.pdf or http://www.tcsdcc.com/public_html/Customer_Content/Installation_Pictures/N_Scale/Kato/ES44AC/ES44AC/ES44AC.html which has nicer pictures Decoder selectors: Digitrax: http://www.digitrax.com/products/engine-matrix/decoder/ TCS: http://www.tcsdcc.com/public_html/Customer_Content/Customer_Info/decoders%20compatibility%20list/Kato_N-Scale.html Adrian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trisonic Posted January 4, 2013 Author Share Posted January 4, 2013 Many thanks, Adrian! Best, Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Wintle Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 That would explain why I had so many problems with the P42 compared to the E8. Wish these things would just *work* the way they're meant to - isn't that the point of them being "drop-in"? Grrr... Actually, the issues I've had with the K0 series decoders (for the E8, P42, F40PH) tend to stem from the plastic clip not seating properly, so not holding the brass motor tabs tightly against the contact pads. Make sure that the pickup strips are properly seated in their channels as well. I now have 8 locos using that style decoder (unless I've forgotten some) - 3 E8s, 3 F40PHs, and 2 P42s (one of which now has the separate ditch lights as per the Digitrax instructions - very fiddly) and they all run reliably. The latest was the P42 that came with the recent Amfleet/Viewliner set, so its decoder is quite new. As an aside - if you want Amfleet coaches, get the Kato ones rather than the Bachmann ones. Both look very nice, but the Kato ones run better (the Bachmann ones do have lighting, which is the main problem). Adrian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold roundhouse Posted January 4, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 4, 2013 Yes the P42 's have been a bit of a problem when installing the boards. I have quite a few of these now aswell. My Kato FP40's have been fine though. I have now resorted to soldering the boards in but does make it harder to remove if need be. However the MRC sound board doens't seem to have the same issues and works fine. I did try a Digitrax sound decoder but had real trouble getting that to work even after soldering it in. It now has a non sound Digitrax board in ti and its fine now so could have been a defective sound decoder. I have been told that the Kato Amfleet arent suitable for the west coast (although I havent looked into this in any depth) so have stuck with the newer Bachman ones after removing the lighting pickups thus making them a bit more free rolling. Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Gwinnett Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 If Pete doesn't mind, a question for the UK members - who do you use for N gauge US stock in the UK? I know Model Junction stopped stocking N. Did someone take over? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold roundhouse Posted January 4, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 4, 2013 These days i dont buy that much as already have too much stock. However the following are who I have used fairly recently: I use LSWR for a lot of my USA stuff. Railroad Trading but he is more books these days. Model Junction now for HO - yes the N scale was taken on by someone - Think its North American Models in Hertfordshire somewhere but cant find them when I search online Team Track trading in Redruth Cornwall. Osborne Models Gaugemaster for some HO and N scale as some items are reasonably competitive or they have seem items on sale when I visit about once a month. Macs Models were good but not tried them since they were sold and moved from Helensburgh in Scotland. These days I tend to buy a few bits when over in the USA Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Wintle Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 I have been told that the Kato Amfleet arent suitable for the west coast (although I havent looked into this in any depth) so have stuck with the newer Bachman ones after removing the lighting pickups thus making them a bit more free rolling. It is possible. The Bachmann ones are Amfleet Is and the Kato ones are Amfleet IIs. I didn't realize that the Amfleets were used out west in any numbers. My Kato ones roll better than the Bachmann ones even after removing the pickups, but the outside-bearing Kato coaches (Superliners etc) are still much better than either. Adrian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Barry Ten Posted January 4, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 4, 2013 These days i dont buy that much as already have too much stock. However the following are who I have used fairly recently: I use LSWR for a lot of my USA stuff. Railroad Trading but he is more books these days. Model Junction now for HO - yes the N scale was taken on by someone - Think its North American Models in Hertfordshire somewhere but cant find them when I search online The N scale line that was originally under Model Junction is now supplied by nscaleamericantrains.co.uk I've had good dealings with them over the last year. The website is well designed, basically like the old Model Junction one in that is has live stock indication. At shows I've bought stuff from LSWR and Plus Daughters. I was visiting Germany a lot a few years ago so also bought stuff from All American Trains in Kaarst, both in the shop and occasionally via mail order. I also used Mac's Model Railroading a few times in the past. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Barry Ten Posted January 4, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 4, 2013 Yes the P42 's have been a bit of a problem when installing the boards. I have quite a few of these now aswell. My Kato FP40's have been fine though. I have now resorted to soldering the boards in but does make it harder to remove if need be. However the MRC sound board doens't seem to have the same issues and works fine. Just popped out for a coffee and when I got back, Digitrains had left a message to say they'd fixed my P42, which is great news. How have you got on with sound in N generally - any recommendations? I have only one sound-equipped loco, a Broadway E8, which has only ever run indifferently and now seems to have a defective board. When it did run, the sound was very good but it's dissuaded me from going down that route again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold roundhouse Posted January 4, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 4, 2013 It is possible. The Bachmann ones are Amfleet Is and the Kato ones are Amfleet IIs. I didn't realize that the Amfleets were used out west in any numbers. My Kato ones roll better than the Bachmann ones even after removing the pickups, but the outside-bearing Kato coaches (Superliners etc) are still much better than either. Adrian Yes would agree that the Kato Amfleets will still be better rollers. Amfleets were used on the San Diegan services as far up to Santa Barbara with a cab control one off the old Metroliners back in the 1980's and 1990's. I am sure that some are still used in amongst a set of Horizon coaches on one working up to San Luis Obispo every day but no with either a rebuilt FP40 as a cab control car one end (loco the other) or a loco on each end depending whats available. The Kato Superliners are very good aswell - even after I did a lot of work on the Concor ones such as lowering them etc, the Kato are still much better. Plus Daughters also good but only bought from them at shows. Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Barry Ten Posted January 4, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 4, 2013 Actually, the issues I've had with the K0 series decoders (for the E8, P42, F40PH) tend to stem from the plastic clip not seating properly, so not holding the brass motor tabs tightly against the contact pads. As an aside - if you want Amfleet coaches, get the Kato ones rather than the Bachmann ones. Both look very nice, but the Kato ones run better (the Bachmann ones do have lighting, which is the main problem). Yes, it was that plastic clip that was the problem, but try as I might I couldn't get it to clip securely back in place well enough to hold the tabs in place. Even putting my finger on it, I had to push down quite a bit to get the tabs to contact. I bought the nice box set Kato did with the P42 and the 5 Amtrack coaches. When I was in the Kato shop in Tokyo (just thought I'd slip that in there) I also picked up enough of their lighting kits to do some of my stock. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Barry Ten Posted January 4, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 4, 2013 Anyway, what's an epiphany, and do Kato do them in N? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold roundhouse Posted January 4, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 4, 2013 Just popped out for a coffee and when I got back, Digitrains had left a message to say they'd fixed my P42, which is great news. How have you got on with sound in N generally - any recommendations? I have only one sound-equipped loco, a Broadway E8, which has only ever run indifferently and now seems to have a defective board. When it did run, the sound was very good but it's dissuaded me from going down that route again. I have used quite a few MRC decoders which just pop in place of the original DC boards. They are pretty impressive considering the size of the locos and speaker. I have one Tsunami factory fitted Athearn F59PHi and that really is superb -can even give some of the older HO sound decoders a run for their money! However, I am now using the Surroundtraxx box with under board speakers and that gives a much better sound and is all controlable from one volume knob which means you can adjust the sound to suit the exhibition environment.. I haven't yet got the system fully working with the transponding so the sound doesn't yet move along the layout with the locos as they pass from eachtransponding block section. The block sections and transponding (using Digitrax decoders, so the MRC / Tsunami ones wont be recognised once fully working without finding room to fit a Digitrax transponder only decoder) working but not yet linked the block section ID's to the Surroundtraxx box. That I hope to finally resolve when the layout goes to the Alton Febex show in 4 weeks time. Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Wintle Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 How have you got on with sound in N generally - any recommendations? I have only one sound-equipped loco, a Broadway E8, which has only ever run indifferently and now seems to have a defective board. When it did run, the sound was very good but it's dissuaded me from going down that route again. The only sound locos I have are a pair of Precision Craft (PCM) PRR E7As*, which use Loksound decoders. I have, on more than one occasion, considered removing the sound decoder. They sounds nice, even though they only have a pair of small speakers each, but they aren't as reliable in operation as my non-sound locos (including my non-sound PCM E7A). *one of the very few RTR locos with the PRR-specific trainphone antennas Adrian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trisonic Posted January 4, 2013 Author Share Posted January 4, 2013 Adrian, No need to take photos - those links you provided seem to be clear enough. Why does one of them require tape I wonder? I have no problem with anyone taking this anywhere so long as it is apparently relevant! Best, Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold roundhouse Posted January 4, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 4, 2013 Pete The tape insulates the tabs from touching the chassis as they should only touch the motor tabs. A bit of care needs to be taken when fitting the Kafton tape to make sure it does cover the chassis block otherwise you can end up with a fried decoder. Not used the TCS type but maybe the tabs from the decoder are either insulated on the inside or are slightly further out than the Digitrax ones. Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trisonic Posted January 4, 2013 Author Share Posted January 4, 2013 Al, There's a great Fender store in Tokyo too. Has "new" historic pieces that are not available outside Japan too. Some real oddballs. Can't remember address, though, d'oh. Ian, Kafton = regular Insulating tape? Is TCS kosher for DCC operation? Soryr for all the questions.... Best, Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold roundhouse Posted January 4, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 4, 2013 Pete Kafton tape is very thin and similar to Sellotape but I believe it is more heat resistant and stronger. It comes wrapped around the Digitrax decoder and is a real pain to find the edge of it to unwrap. I haven't used many TCS decoders in USA N scale but have on my British N and OO scale. TCS do have a good reputation for but I have generally stuck with Digitrax in USA N scale for the transponfing function. I do have two TCS decoders fitted to earlier Katolocos that didn't have the slot for the DCC boards and I they work fine. These decoders come in two sections that replace the two small light boards at each end of the loco. Most of the later releases of these locos do now accept the more common plug in decoders do you only have to be concerned if buying second hand Atlas or Kato. Not sobsure about some lifelike locos though. Fox valley ES44's take a plug in six pin decoders as per most recent UK N scale releases. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortliner Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 Anyway, what's an epiphany, and do Kato do them in N? Not sure - but I think the "Epuffany" is the steam loco with sound - but don't let the magic smoke out! Coat - GONE! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Wintle Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 Kafton tape is very thin and similar to Sellotape but I believe it is more heat resistant and stronger. It comes wrapped around the Digitrax decoder and is a real pain to find the edge of it to unwrap. I haven't used many TCS decoders in USA N scale but have on my British N and OO scale. TCS do have a good reputation for but I have generally stuck with Digitrax in USA N scale for the transponfing function. I do have two TCS decoders fitted to earlier Katolocos that didn't have the slot for the DCC boards and I they work fine. These decoders come in two sections that replace the two small light boards at each end of the loco. Most of the later releases of these locos do now accept the more common plug in decoders do you only have to be concerned if buying second hand Atlas or Kato. Not sobsure about some lifelike locos though. Fox valley ES44's take a plug in six pin decoders as per most recent UK N scale releases. Kapton tape is also available in rolls from TCS http://www.tcsdcc.com/public_html/Customer_Content/Products/Supplies/ToolsAndSupplies/Kapton_Tape/KaptonTape.html It is a more stable and thinner insulator than the normal vinyl stuff, and doesn't leave sticky goo everywhere. I use the TCS CN-GP decoders (the two part ones) in some of my older Atlas GP9s. They seem to work ok, but I tend to stick with Digitrax otherwise (around here they tend to be cheaper than the TCS equivalents). The chassis photos in Spookshow's encyclopedia are useful for determining whether a loco will be easy to convert to DCC. Most of the older metal-chassis Lifelike locos aren't, but the even earlier plastic chassis ones are trivial to hardwire (if you can find one where the chassis isn't warped). Adrian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold roundhouse Posted January 4, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 4, 2013 Sorry Kapton tape! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Gwinnett Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 Thanks for replies re shops Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Barry Ten Posted January 4, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 4, 2013 TCS do have a good reputation for but I have generally stuck with Digitrax in USA N scale for the transponfing function. I've got a mixture of TCS and Digitrax decoders in mine, and they all seem to work equally well. If I was starting now, from a blank slate, I'd consider it worth while to use the Surroundtraxx system which Ian mentions. I got very excited when I first heard about it, but that was before I realised it needs to use the Digitrax transponding capability for best effect. It does seem like a brilliant solution for getting sound in N. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium DavidLong Posted January 4, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 4, 2013 Anyway, what's an epiphany, and do Kato do them in N? For the record, the Wiki has an epiphany as "any situation in which an enlightening realization allows a problem or situation to be understood from a new and deeper perspective." Wow, Pete, you hadn't been smoking something had you? Seriously, finding this thread useful, entertaining, informative, all those things. Thanks for starting it! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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