Older Inspirational Layouts

[RJS1977]

And then he moved down the line and did Rowsley.

[RJS1977]

In terms of "classic" layouts of prototype locations, the obvious one is the Gainsborough layout, although naturally stations have been trimmed down somewhat - though as I have seen mentioned in the past, if you're stood on one of the platforms at KX looking east (or west for that matter), you can't see what's behind you.

 

Chiltern Green/Luton Hoo has already been mentioned and was succeeded by Copenhagen Fields.

 

There was (is?) the large O gauge Miller's Dale layout.

 

Mike Cook's various South Devon layouts also deserve a mention, and of course there have been many models of Ashburton.

 

The Manchester group's Isle of Man system has already been mentioned.

 

I'm sure there are and have been many others that I can't just think of at the moment.

 

Though perhaps in some ways the more inspirational layouts are the ones that create the atmosphere of a real location and may to some degree be based on one, but are not in fact real places. David Jenkinson's "Little Long Drag" would fall into this category.

[bécasse]

2 hours ago, Chris M said:

My main interest is models of real places. Can anyone recall older layouts that were reasonably good models of a real location?

Bembridge in P4, seen here at The Model Railway Club's Easter show at Central Hall in 1974 (its second visit, it was first shown there in 1971). Everything (ignoring "noises off") that you see here was an accurate model of the prototype as it was in the summer of 1937, including the track and point rodding - almost certainly the most accurate model of a prototype ever made.

Photo: the late Ian Lyle

[NHY 581]

I saw Bembridge at Taunton Railex this year. Lovely layout, perhaps showing it's age now but still much to inspire. 

 

Rob. 

[t-b-g]

10 hours ago, Pacific231G said:

Thanks very much for posting the clip Tony. I have seen that Pathé film before but always assumed that the layout in question  couldn't be Maybank as that was a terminus and tihs is a through station. However, studying it more carefully, I am now convinced that it IS Maybank, but sllightly modified from its original form.

 

Maybank was at every MRC exhibition between 1933 ansd 1939 apart from 1936 when a film about the layout was shown instead. MRN's report on the 1938 exhibition which Pathé filmed,  just refers to "several working layouts" but the much fuller report on the 1939 exhibition says  "The well-known Maybank Railway (O gauge Great Central) had been impoved for exhibtion purposes by the provision of a single loop at one end which speeds up the traffic operation". I'd always assume that this was at the "country"end to return trains to the terminus replacing the traverser, mainly because that's what Cyril Freezer says he saw in 1939 . However, from the film it looks like this return loop was, at least in 1938, at the former terminus end.

There is also a shot in the Pathé newsreel of an MPD with the TT being hand cranked and trains running past in front of it. On Maybank, certainly up to 1937, the MPD was at a higher level and sited above the sector plate storage sidings. However, the MPD in the film looks to be the same basic arrangement and the retaining wall also looks the same so I think Bill Banwell and Frank Applegate must have made some other changes, including bringing the MPD down to ground level, after the 1937 show. There is a photo of the layout in MRN's  report on the 1937 show and it was then definitely still a terminus with a ramp going up to the MPD as per the description and plan in the August 1934 MRN. 

You can compare the film with the plan below and see if you agree that it is the same layout. but the pointwork at the platform ends looks identical as do the signals on the two platforms to those in photos of Maybank. So, I'm now as certain as I can be that it is Maybank (along with a couple of shots of other layouts) that we're seeing in the film

.

 

Chris. I have that article in front of me now. It's actually five pages long. Let me know if you'd like a scan PMd .

 

One aspect of the hobby that seems to have died out a bit is the constantly changing layout. As we have discussed with Buckingham, tinkering and changing aspects, either major or minor, was happening all the time.

 

In some respects, me altering nothing (other than making repairs) for the last ten years is not in the true spirit of Buckingham. For it not to be altered in all that time must be a first!

 

I hadn't considered that Maybank could have appeared as a through station either but the loco shed, the platform arrangement and the locos and stock all suggested that it was indeed that layout in front of the camera.

[RJS1977]

13 minutes ago, NHY 581 said:

I saw Bembridge at Taunton Railex this year. Lovely layout, perhaps showing it's age now but still much to inspire. 

 

Rob. 

 

There is more than one Bembridge layout as Mark Pretious of the Alton Club has one.

[Chris M]

7 minutes ago, RJS1977 said:

 

There is more than one Bembridge layout as Mark Pretious of the Alton Club has one.

Wasn't it Mark Pretious who was exhibiting at Taunton?

 

[RJS1977]

14 minutes ago, t-b-g said:

 

One aspect of the hobby that seems to have died out a bit is the constantly changing layout. As we have discussed with Buckingham, tinkering and changing aspects, either major or minor, was happening all the time.

 

In some respects, me altering nothing (other than making repairs) for the last ten years is not in the true spirit of Buckingham. For it not to be altered in all that time must be a first!

 

I hadn't considered that Maybank could have appeared as a through station either but the loco shed, the platform arrangement and the locos and stock all suggested that it was indeed that layout in front of the camera.

 

I'm not sure that it has "died out". Yes, there are probably more "short term" layouts that maybe do 20-30 shows and disappear rather than there used to be, but I'm sure there are still plenty of "lifetime layouts" about.

 

My father's layout "Templebar Junction" was rebuilt into its current form when my parents moved house in 1997 (having had its roots in a layout of a different format that dates back to the late 1970s). Even now there is still plenty to do on it, and sitting on my dining table at the moment under construction is a building for it that I've been meaning to make since the 1997 rebuild!

 

Buckingham I would say is a rather special case (in more ways than one) in that it is now essentially a "preserved model railway."

Whilst many of Peter's rearrangements were of his own volition, later changes such as the removal of the milk dock at Grandborough Junction and the scenifying of the Leighton Buzzard branch came about as a result of house moves. I believe that the shed it is currently housed in was specifically built to house it, so no further alterations or amendments were necessary.

[t-b-g]

2 hours ago, Chris M said:

My main interest is models of real places. Can anyone recall older layouts that were reasonably good models of a real location?

 

High Dyke might qualify, as might Gainsborough Central. Around the same time, Dave Stringer, one of our club members, built a very nice EM gauge layout of Cawood on the Cawood, Wistow and Selby line but you would have had to have gone to a small number of shows at the time to see it.

 

With no internet, the only way we got to know about layouts was if they were in a magazine or at a show, or built by people we knew. 

[t-b-g]

3 minutes ago, RJS1977 said:

 

I'm not sure that it has "died out". Yes, there are probably more "short term" layouts that maybe do 20-30 shows and disappear rather than there used to be, but I'm sure there are still plenty of "lifetime layouts" about.

 

My father's layout "Templebar Junction" was rebuilt into its current form when my parents moved house in 1997 (having had its roots in a layout of a different format that dates back to the late 1970s). Even now there is still plenty to do on it, and sitting on my dining table at the moment under construction is a building for it that I've been meaning to make since the 1997 rebuild!

 

Buckingham I would say is a rather special case (in more ways than one) in that it is now essentially a "preserved model railway."

Whilst many of Peter's rearrangements were of his own volition, later changes such as the removal of the milk dock at Grandborough Junction and the scenifying of the Leighton Buzzard branch came about as a result of house moves. I believe that the shed it is currently housed in was specifically built to house it, so no further alterations or amendments were necessary.

 

I didn't know a milk dock had been removed at Grandborough. That is a new one to me. Can you recall where it was? One of the very last alterations that Peter Denny did was to add a dock for milk and horse boxes alongside the Verney Junction branch but I wasn't aware of a previous one that had to go at some point.

 

The shed was indeed built to be the right size for the layout and there never were any plans to alter it when it came to me. I would much rather keep Peter's work intact as far as I can rather than replace it with mine. That doesn't stop me mulling over ideas in my head though!

 

I am glad to hear that the constantly evolving layout is alive and well. I just don't seem to have seen many around. Most people seem to decide what to build and then build it. The idea of "I can add xyz there" or "If I move that from there I can do this" once the layout is substantially completed doesn't seem to feature very much.

[RJS1977]

ISTR there was an article about moving Buckingham in RM in about 1986 in which Peter mentioned that there had been a milk dock recessed into a bay window behind Grandborough Junction (i.e. off the LB branch) which had to be sawn off to fit into the new residence.

[t-b-g]

16 minutes ago, RJS1977 said:

ISTR there was an article about moving Buckingham in RM in about 1986 in which Peter mentioned that there had been a milk dock recessed into a bay window behind Grandborough Junction (i.e. off the LB branch) which had to be sawn off to fit into the new residence.

 

You are quite correct. The article is in the August 1985 RM and does mention the removal of the dock.

 

The odd thing is that it is still there! A bit battered and very much in the "still needs attention" category but there was room for a bit of grass bank behind it.

 

I am pretty sure this is the one he means in the article.

 

There was a bit of scenery that need removing but it was the approach road to the station and the dock rather than the dock itself that went. Just goes to show you can't believe everything you read, even from a man of the church! It could well be that he submitted the article and then realised that the dock could remain, too late to alter it.

[PMP]

1 hour ago, t-b-g said:

 

One aspect of the hobby that seems to have died out a bit is the constantly changing layout. As we have discussed with Buckingham, tinkering and changing aspects, either major or minor, was happening all the time.

 

I used to do that regularly with Albion Yard.

 

So often in fact when people saw the layout they couldn’t get their head round the fact it was only a 10ft x18” footprint. The layout was designed in such a way that by swapping in and out, and around buildings and trees, the entire look of the layout could change.

Edited December 31, 2022 by PMP

[t-b-g]

Just now, PMP said:

I used to do that regularly with Albion Yard.

 

So often in fact when people saw the layout they couldn’t get their head round the fact it was only a 10ft x18” footprint. The layout was designed in such a way that by swapping in and out, and around buildings and trees, the entire look of the layout could change.

 

It was of your best ideas Paul. It worked really well.

 

I have pondered about doing something similar, having basically a fixed trackbed and track and all the scenery being removable modules, so the period, company and nature of the layout could be changed.

 

Another idea on the "one day" pile of thoughts!

[PMP]

3 hours ago, Chris M said:

My main interest is models of real places. Can anyone recall older layouts that were reasonably good models of a real location?

https://bawdsey.wordpress.com/bawdsey-images/
 

Chris Matthewman built ‘Strove’ based heavily on Aldeburgh, enough so you could see the direct links from layout to prototype. Whilst built in the early noughties/late 90’s it used techniques from the 70’s and was a brilliant example of ‘old school’ technology and reliability. I had the privilege of owning and exhibiting it (changing the era from 30’s to late 50’s and renamed it Bawdsey), and it’s still out there today.

Going back a page or two regarding exhibition insurance, you need to read the T&C’s of attending, not assume you’re covered for ‘in transit’. The relevance of that comment is due to taking Bawdsey to a show, and finding out in an idle moment reading the T&C’s, it was only covered once inside the venue. So regardless of who organises a show you’re attending, check.

[NHY 581]

1 hour ago, RJS1977 said:

 

There is more than one Bembridge layout as Mark Pretious of the Alton Club has one.

 

 

This is Mark's layout...

 

 

 

Rob. 

[D-A-T]

1 hour ago, PMP said:

https://bawdsey.wordpress.com/bawdsey-images/
 

Chris Matthewman built ‘Strove’ based heavily on Aldeburgh, enough so you could see the direct links from layout to prototype. Whilst built in the early noughties/late 90’s it used techniques from the 70’s and was a brilliant example of ‘old school’ technology and reliability. I had the privilege of owning and exhibiting it (changing the era from 30’s to late 50’s and renamed it Bawdsey), and it’s still out there today.

Going back a page or two regarding exhibition insurance, you need to read the T&C’s of attending, not assume you’re covered for ‘in transit’. The relevance of that comment is due to taking Bawdsey to a show, and finding out in an idle moment reading the T&C’s, it was only covered once inside the venue. So regardless of who organises a show you’re attending, check.

My favourite Chris Matthewman layout was (I think) called Wickham. It was in an early MRJ. It had everything, station, loco shed, goods yard and private industry siding. It ticked all my boxes, still does, apart from it was LMS! 🤣

[Metropolitan H]

5 hours ago, Chris M said:

My main interest is models of real places. Can anyone recall older layouts that were reasonably good models of a real location?

- Carl Legg's model(s) of Lambourn.

 

- Les Darbyshire's K&ESR layout(s).

 

Thats just two that I recall directly.

 

Regards

Chris H (the Metropolitan one!)

[t-b-g]

12 minutes ago, D-A-T said:

My favourite Chris Matthewman layout was (I think) called Wickham. It was in an early MRJ. It had everything, station, loco shed, goods yard and private industry siding. It ticked all my boxes, still does, apart from it was LMS! 🤣

 

Although it has suffered over the years and many of the buildings have gone, much of Wickham still survives. There have even been mentions of giving it a major overhaul and a rebuild and exhibiting it again but I don't think it is very high up on the list of priorities for the present owners. 

[Barry Ten]

1 hour ago, t-b-g said:

 

It was of your best ideas Paul. It worked really well.

 

I have pondered about doing something similar, having basically a fixed trackbed and track and all the scenery being removable modules, so the period, company and nature of the layout could be changed.

 

Another idea on the "one day" pile of thoughts!

 

That's sort of what I do with my home layout. The platforms, railway buildings and so on are all removable, so the layout can be swapped from (eg) GWR to S&D in about 20 minutes. 

 

 

 

These two shots are actually taken from quite similar angles. In S&D mode, the station is on this side of the tracks and the forecourt sits over one of the longer sidings of the goods yard. Where the cattle dock is in GWR mode, an S&D shed is substituted. Lamps, platform benches and so on are changed. The platforms are removable in their entirety but since both companies used a similar shade of stone on their fences, I've got away with retaining them for now - however the longer term plan was to build completely separate platforms with Midland fittings, LNER etc, if desired.

 

I build some of the scenery on removable modules too but only one now remains swappable, however the idea is certainly feasible.

 

 

[t-b-g]

3 minutes ago, Barry Ten said:

 

That's sort of what I do with my home layout. The platforms, railway buildings and so on are all removable, so the layout can be swapped from (eg) GWR to S&D in about 20 minutes. 

 

 

 

These two shots are actually taken from quite similar angles. In S&D mode, the station is on this side of the tracks and the forecourt sits over one of the longer sidings of the goods yard. Where the cattle dock is in GWR mode, an S&D shed is substituted. Lamps, platform benches and so on are changed. The platforms are removable in their entirety but since both companies used a similar shade of stone on their fences, I've got away with retaining them for now - however the longer term plan was to build completely separate platforms with Midland fittings, LNER etc, if desired.

 

I build some of the scenery on removable modules too but only one now remains swappable, however the idea is certainly feasible.

 

 

 

Very nice indeed.

 

One of my difficulties with the idea is that I am a bit of a track nerd and usually build my own. So if I want to swap my layout from GNR to GCR or Midland, I would know that the track was wrong. 99.9% of others would never tell so my dilemma is wondering whether I build a layout with generic track so it would be wrong for all my interests, or build it so it is right for one interest and wrong for the others. If I am building generic track, do I bother making my own or do I use flexible ready made track and the EMGS points now available even though in pre-grouping times the sleepers should be 9ft long?

 

Faced with deeply philosophical choices like that, my default response is to shelve the idea and do something else while I think about it!

[D-A-T]

23 minutes ago, t-b-g said:

 

Although it has suffered over the years and many of the buildings have gone, much of Wickham still survives. There have even been mentions of giving it a major overhaul and a rebuild and exhibiting it again but I don't think it is very high up on the list of priorities for the present owners. 

That’s a shame as I’d like to see it in the flesh one day. Maybe the reinstated buildings could be in an LNER constituent Company style this time…..

PS If they ever decide to move it on I’d be interested. 

[fulton]

6 hours ago, Chris M said:

My main interest is models of real places. Can anyone recall older layouts that were reasonably good models of a real location?

My former EM SECR layout Port Victoria, first exhibited in 1991, was very close to the real location, did a lot of exhibitions, much fun had, after storage for twenty years now has a new owner. I have few photos, if anyone has any to post. After a gap of twenty years, I am now back into EM SECR modelling.

[Nearholmer]

There are or have been a few around, but the trouble with most real places modelled exactly is that they have a tendency to loose their inspirational quality by looking too spread out; they include all the bits of reality that the brain edits out. I recall Port Victoria, and that location was quirky enough to retain interest when modelled, but not many do.

 

I got quite a way forward with a scale sized EM model of The Dyke, baseboards done, track laid etc., but then lost interest because it was simply rather uninspiring. It ended its life as an experiment in the durability of plywood baseboards, spending c25 years in an un-heated and somewhat draughty shed, acting as overwintering quarters for field-mice, before going to recycling as solid and warp-free as the day it was built.

 

The really, really inspiring layouts seem to be those that contain the distilled essences of reality, a bit like paintings as opposed to photos.

[kevinlms]

2 hours ago, PMP said:

Going back a page or two regarding exhibition insurance, you need to read the T&C’s of attending, not assume you’re covered for ‘in transit’. The relevance of that comment is due to taking Bawdsey to a show, and finding out in an idle moment reading the T&C’s, it was only covered once inside the venue. So regardless of who organises a show you’re attending, check.

Good, I'm glad someone agrees with my suggestion to read the T&Cs, which relates to where you are and not just fobbed off as assuming coverage.