Older Inspirational Layouts

[Chris M]

Going off on a tangent but the Miracle Chair Company reminded me of the USA Trains Sofa King wagon. Wonder how long this link will remain before the mods pull it?

https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/usa-trains-san-val-scale-sofa-king-308561249?popular

[NHY 581]

I'm taking a layout to Uckfield this year for the first time. I'll hopefully make time to be able to have a good look over Iain's layouts. 

 

A great opportunity. 

 

Rob. 

 

 

[papagolfjuliet]

2 hours ago, DLT said:

 

 

The narrow gauge layout is most likely Gwynant Valley (and the later Llugwy Valley) which used live moss.  Built by the late Malcolm Savage, it was 5.5mm scale, running on 12mm gauge track.  Malcom was very much the "leading light" in this scale, there is a page and several galleries devoted to him on the 5.5mm Association website here:  Malcolm Savage archive  and obituary/tribute to Malcolm here:  Malcolm Savage Tribute

The live moss used to represent Welsh upland vegetation was very effective, and it caused lots of amusement when he "watered" it during an exhibition!

 

 

That's the one! I remember seeing it when I was, I suppose, ten at the York show back in the days when the show was held in the Assembly Rooms and the De Grey Rooms at the same time.

[Jol Wilkinson]

I can't think of any layout that has inspired me significantly, other than Cyril Freezers Minories track plan. That is not to say that there aren't layouts that I admire and appreciate for the workmanship,  , research and , observation that has gone into creating them.

 

However, there have been modellers and writers who have given me inspiration. In no particular order they include David Jenkinson, Iain Rice, Barry Norman, John Hayes, Bob Barlow, Guy Williams, Sid Stubbs, Jack Nelson and Philip Millard.

[John Besley]

On 24/02/2023 at 13:02, Chris M said:

Going off on a tangent but the Miracle Chair Company reminded me of the USA Trains Sofa King wagon. Wonder how long this link will remain before the mods pull it?

https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/usa-trains-san-val-scale-sofa-king-308561249?popular

 

There's always the Norfolk King and the Suffolk King...

[adrianmc]

On 23/02/2023 at 20:46, Gilbert said:

I know one of his layouts is being actively conserved....this turned up at a Missenden weekend..and is due to return this Spring IIRC.

Chris Hopper

 

 

Yes - this is Butley Mills.

 

If things go to plan, the layout will be at Uckfield this year along with Cades Green, Trerice, Hepton Wharf and Longwood Edge.

 

Also hope to have some of Iain's North Cornwall stock on show from Tregarrick.

 

http://www.uckfieldmrc.co.uk/exhibition.html

[Flying Fox 34F]

On 24/02/2023 at 12:06, papagolfjuliet said:

Two early 80s layouts whose names escape me: the massive LNER layout of the Church Gresley MRC, and a OO9 layout with a moorland setting which used live sphagnum moss as its main scenic material.

Worthington East was the large LNER based layout in Swadlincote.  I believe it was dismantled due to issues that developed with the baseboards.  Myself and a few friends had the pleasure of running this layout several times as guest operators.  

We had an exhibition layout at the time, (Riverside Road), which belonged to the late Paul Copper of MRSG in Grantham.  Whilst attending shows in the East Midlands, we became friends with members of the Church Gresley MRC, which resulted in our invites.  
 

I recall most of locomotives on Worthington East belonged to one member who built them whilst working on ships!  He would occupy one corner of the layout watching the trains and providing hand signals if he needed you to slow down.  I used to operate one of the Slow lines and had the pleasure of running the loaded coal train.  It would take several minutes for it to complete a circuit.  Perfect time to grab a cuppa.

 

Paul

[Pacific231G]

5 hours ago, Jol Wilkinson said:

I can't think of any layout that has inspired me significantly, other than Cyril Freezers Minories track plan. That is not to say that there aren't layouts that I admire and appreciate for the workmanship,  , research and , observation that has gone into creating them.

 

However, there have been modellers and writers who have given me inspiration. In no particular order they include David Jenkinson, Iain Rice, Barry Norman, John Hayes, Bob Barlow, Guy Williams, Sid Stubbs, Jack Nelson and Philip Millard.

Having also been much inspired by Minories, I've always wondered if it was partly the projection he used for the original plan that brought it to life and made it inspiring. Would if it had the same impact if it had been one of his normal flat plans? 

[St Enodoc]

12 hours ago, Jol Wilkinson said:

However, there have been modellers and writers who have given me inspiration. In no particular order they include David Jenkinson, Iain Rice, Barry Norman, John Hayes, Bob Barlow, Guy Williams, Sid Stubbs, Jack Nelson and Philip Millard.

Most of whom, in my view, also built some inspirational layouts!

[DLT]

I don't think anyone has mentioned "Pendlebury" by Herbert Topping on here, (with it's amazing trees) or have I missed/forgotten it?  I was reminded of it coming across a Revisiting type article way back in MRJ No.48.  

Does anyone remember which magazine(s) it first appeared in?  IIRC Model Railways, late 1970s?

 

Many thanks,

Dave.T

[NHY 581]

10 hours ago, DLT said:

I don't think anyone has mentioned "Pendlebury" by Herbert Topping on here, (with it's amazing trees) or have I missed/forgotten it?  I was reminded of it coming across a Revisiting type article way back in MRJ No.48.  

Does anyone remember which magazine(s) it first appeared in?  IIRC Model Railways, late 1970s?

 

Many thanks,

Dave.T

 

Hi Dave, 

 

I think I mentioned it in one of my earlier posts. Pendlebury was a layout that really got me thinking about the railway in the landscape and how a "proper" layout should look. 

 

The article I remember was in the Railway Modeller, perhaps sometime in 1978/79 ? 

 

Rob

[NHY 581]

Aha! 

 

[kevinlms]

11 hours ago, DLT said:

I don't think anyone has mentioned "Pendlebury" by Herbert Topping on here, (with it's amazing trees) or have I missed/forgotten it?  I was reminded of it coming across a Revisiting type article way back in MRJ No.48.  

Does anyone remember which magazine(s) it first appeared in?  IIRC Model Railways, late 1970s?

 

Many thanks,

Dave.T

Some are mentioned here.

 

http://www.norgrove.me.uk/P4-articles.html

 

Also RM 1978 March  Fundamental Principles

RM 1978 June  Preparing the Ground

RM 1978 August  Control & Conclusions

Edited March 21, 2023 by kevinlms
More info

[RJS1977]

On 26/02/2023 at 17:11, Flying Fox 34F said:

Worthington East was the large LNER based layout in Swadlincote.  I believe it was dismantled due to issues that developed with the baseboards.  Myself and a few friends had the pleasure of running this layout several times as guest operators.  

We had an exhibition layout at the time, (Riverside Road), which belonged to the late Paul Copper of MRSG in Grantham.  Whilst attending shows in the East Midlands, we became friends with members of the Church Gresley MRC, which resulted in our invites.  
 

I recall most of locomotives on Worthington East belonged to one member who built them whilst working on ships!  He would occupy one corner of the layout watching the trains and providing hand signals if he needed you to slow down.  I used to operate one of the Slow lines and had the pleasure of running the loaded coal train.  It would take several minutes for it to complete a circuit.  Perfect time to grab a cuppa.

 

Paul

 

Worthington East also featured a cathedral that had been made from no fewer than 16 Triang church kits!

[John Besley]

1 hour ago, RJS1977 said:

 

Worthington East also featured a cathedral that had been made from no fewer than 16 Triang church kits!

 

Love to see a picture of that, a cathedral! How many years did it take to build...

[Ravenser]

22 hours ago, John Besley said:

 

Love to see a picture of that, a cathedral! How many years did it take to build...

 

About 250 years is prototypical

[Flying Pig]

On 26/02/2023 at 17:11, Flying Fox 34F said:

I recall most of locomotives on Worthington East belonged to one member who built them whilst working on ships!

 

That would never happen these days.

 

 

[DenysW]

3 hours ago, Ravenser said:

On 21/03/2023 at 18:48, John Besley said:

 

Love to see a picture of that, a cathedral! How many years did it take to build...

 

About 250 years is prototypical

But do you have to scale that by 1:87?

[John Besley]

1 minute ago, DenysW said:

But do you have to scale that by 1:87?

 

3 hours ago, Ravenser said:

 

About 250 years is prototypical

 

That would make the build how long, tried working it out but my brain hurts 😫 

[Pacific231G]

51 minutes ago, John Besley said:

 

 

That would make the build how long, tried working it out but my brain hurts 😫 

A bit less than three years but that would be using medieval methods. Cathedrals take a lot less time to build nowadays (otherwise there wouldn't be any in the USA)  and have done for quite some time. St. Pauls Cathedral took 40 year to build but Westmiinster Cathedral, opened in 1903, took  8. By that reckoning you should be able to build a 1:87 scale cathedral in about six weeks.

Though some cathedrals may have taken 250 years to build (and Milan took 500) that was usually due to the need to raise funds to pay for the work. If funding was avaialable even a medieval cathedral could take as littlle as 50 years.

 

However, what I don't understand is why, built largely by hand by navvies, main line railways used to take a lot less time to build than they do now. The first railway from London to Birmingham took five years to build so how come HS2 phase one is taking at least twelve (actual buiild time on top of ten years of planning). Stephenson and Locke employed 20 000 people to build the L&B, largely by hand, while construction of HS2 is apparently providing work for 29 000 people. 

 

Edited March 22, 2023 by Pacific231G

[DenysW]

3 minutes ago, Pacific231G said:

The first railway from London to Birmingham took five years to build so how come HS2 phase one is taking at least twelve

Because only about 10% of HS2 is at ground level. Vast amounts of tunnelling - even building a six platform station 20 m below local ground level (Old Oak Common).

 

However, the cost was actually predictable if you look at either the Hull & Barnsley (never got to Barnsley on its own metal), or the Great Central London Extension. IMHO the UK won't build big infrastructure projects if told upfront the real cost. No, wildly optimistic assumptions first, then, when it's too late to back out, start getting real with the estimates.

[Pacific231G]

11 minutes ago, DenysW said:

Because only about 10% of HS2 is at ground level. Vast amounts of tunnelling - even building a six platform station 20 m below local ground level (Old Oak Common).

 

However, the cost was actually predictable if you look at either the Hull & Barnsley (never got to Barnsley on its own metal), or the Great Central London Extension. IMHO the UK won't build big infrastructure projects if told upfront the real cost. No, wildly optimistic assumptions first, then, when it's too late to back out, start getting real with the estimates.

It'll need to be fast then lest its passengers die of tedium. With all those cuttings and tunnels to make sure nobody actually has to look at it,  It does promise to be one of the world's most boring train journeys. It's railway not a blooming sewer!

 

[pete_mcfarlane]

39 minutes ago, Pacific231G said:

However, what I don't understand is why, built largely by hand by navvies, main line railways used to take a lot less time to build than they do now. The first railway from London to Birmingham took five years to build so how come HS2 phase one is taking at least twelve (actual buiild time on top of ten years of planning). Stephenson and Locke employed 20 000 people to build the L&B, largely by hand, while construction of HS2 is apparently providing work for 29 000 people. 

I wager that HS2 will kill far fewer construction workers.

 

A lot of the increased build time is probably to spread the construction costs over a longer, and easier to absorb, period and to use a finite amount of skilled construction workers.

[Nearholmer]

I also wonder if the ways of counting numbers of people working on the two are different.

 

The L&B seems to have involved c100 000 man years of labour, but my suspicion is that HS2 might employ 29 000 different people over the span of its construction  and/or that the HS2 figure includes a long supply chain behind the works, where the L&B had less of a supply chain, but what there was wasn’t counted in.

 

This is a very good account of the construction of the L&B. I’ve been to a lecture on the topic by the author and, by golly does know the subject inside out! https://tringhistory.tringlocalhistorymuseum.org.uk/Railway/c06_project.htm

 

 

Edited March 23, 2023 by Nearholmer

[Captain Slough]

has anyone mentioned DMNS - Don's Miniature New Street?  Created by Don Jones, apparently it lasted until about 2007 at his home in Sutton Coldfield and he died around that time