Which DCC System

[Despatcher]

As Nigel says, Boosters are normally used when there are multiple 'power districts', and points out that  this is more common on larger layouts.  With common inputs ( - ie the same dcc data: essential )  they will each produce identical but independant track power outputs.

They should preferably be set to the same output voiltage, [and from their own input power supplies]

 

{I mention this because the ZTC511 has adjustable track output voltage, but their BOOSTER does not: and therefore when a train crosses from one power district to the other, the train speed is likely to change - their 'solution' was to offer a different voltage transformer, or use a separate variable dc power supply for the booster}

 

When a train crosses from one power district to the next - they are temporarilly connected together IN PARALLEL: This is not a problem when their voltages almost the same, [ It is a common method in high-power industrial equipment containing a backup/dual power supply ]

 

Obviously they must have the SAME polarity at all times  (phase) or a large current would flow and they would self-protect and cut out.

SOME boosters are designed with Auto-Reversing capability - as this is exactly how traditional auto-reverse circuits have worked - and they would self, correct when powering-up.  One ZTC Booster model does, but the Roco Amplifiers, for example, do not, and must be plugged with the correct polarity.

 

The idea fails if adjacent sections were from different dcc contollers - and one 'hidden' example of this is a 'braking generator' section, which is transmitting its OWN dcc data ie 'all stop', or the alternative 'brake on dc' - these require a train-length intermediate section between the 'normal' and 'braked' areas.

{This is where Lenz's assymetric braking method wins, because it is the SAME dcc data signal at all times, simply with a small amplitude difference caused by diodes - it can therefore be adjacent to 'normal' sections, and use the same track power.}

 

Power Districts can be useful, on even to the smallest layout, which has DCC-controlled Pointwork, especially if live-frog points are used, so that points can still be contolled, even if their is a short-circuit, or other problem, on the track.

 

I would recommend using the default output of the Dynamis [ or Pro track output] or ANY '1A STARTER' Dcc contoller to supply the Accessory Bus - assuming that the accessory decoders used have there own 16Vac power feed, and are simply monitoring the supplied dcc signal for control purposes - in this way, even 1A 'Starter Pack'' controllers  with limited current output have a prolonged use, even on larger layouts.

{Lenz LS150's use 16Vac for their power, ZTC, ESU/Bachmann have external power options, MERG decoders must use external power}

 

Use a Booster - whether it is fed by a dedicated 'booster' connection from the master, or , as with the Bachmann, can simply be connected to the standard dcc output - , but via a switch - to supply the 'track' dcc feeds.... this having a 5A capability, at any track voltage suited from 'N' to 'G'

 

Any Dedicated Programming output available form the controller (Pro? in this case, Rocomotion in mine) is fed to the dedicated PGM track section, which is not normally used for running ( on some controllers, the PGM output is NOT powered during normal operation ). 

IF the controller can read-back CVs (and this is NOT A requirement for programming!!), then this will still be the case.

Many thanks for all of that. I do not want two powere districts particularly but am looking for a way of boosting the amps of by contoller because of a problem (see reply to Nigel). I realise reading CVs is not a prerequisite for programming but it is a good idea to know what the default is before you change it and programming tracks are ideal for this with the Dynamis. I will srtudy what you have said in detail and see where it gets me. You are more than kind and thanks  for your time.

[Oldddudders]

I assume that POM (Programming On the Main), which pretty much reduces the need for a separate programming track, is not part of the Dynamis's repertoire? Also ask yourself how often the programming track is needed during an operating session. By and large the prog track is only used to provide an initial set-up for a loco, or to give it a good talking-to if it's misbehaving. With so many locos, surely you can restrict its use to times before or after trains are being run, when unplugging the booster becomes an option?

[GoingUnderground]

If you have problems with short wheelbase locos such as your 03 then it could be that dirty or uneven track is the problem or poor pickups, or dead frogs on your pointwork if you use insulfrog style points.

 

I can't find a copy of the manual for the Bachmann EZ Command booster anywhere on the 'net, so the following advice is based on how I would expect the booster to be connected. The  "DCC IN" jack on the booster is connected to the main track output of the host system i.e. the Dynamis, in parallel with the existing connections to the track and the output from the Booster either goes to a new power district, or you use it to power the accesssories and leave the Dymanis to power the track. You will have to keep the frog juicers connected to whichever system supplies the power to the track.

 

Alternatively, you connect the main track output from the Pro Box to the "DCC IN" jack, and the make all your conenctiosn to the track and accessory decoders to the output from the booster. If you do it this way the only conenction from the Dynamis main track output must be to the booster, nothing else. Yuo can still use the programming track output on the Pro Box as normal provided the programming track is NOT connected to the layout in any way. 

 

You do not lose the programming track output if you add any make of booster to a Dymamis Pro Box system. Connecting the booster to the programming track output on the Pro Box seems to me to be a particularly bad idea, and I'm very surprised that it has been suggested anywhere by anyone.

[Ron Ron Ron]

....You can still use the programming track output on the Pro Box as normal provided the programming track is NOT connected to the layout in any way...... 

 

......Connecting the booster to the programming track output on the Pro Box seems to me.......

 

Keith, just a reminder that when a Pro Box is connected to the Dynamis, the programming track output is from the Dynamis Command Station track output and not from the Pro Box track output.

There is no programming track output on the Pro Box.

The track output on the Command Station becomes a Service Track output, switchable between normal track output and programming track output.

 

I agree with you that in Dynamis Pro configuration, any additional Booster should only be connected to the Pro Box track output and not the Command Station track output.

 

 

[Just as an aside; the physical design of the Dynamis / Navigator components, matches that of the ESU ECoSBoost; the latter seemingly originally intended to be a compatible Booster for this DCC system as well as the full-fat ECoS.

The units will all stack neatly together.

Unfortunately the ECoSBoost took on altogether grander attributes and a price to match.]

 

 

 

.

[GoingUnderground]

Keith, just a reminder that when a Pro Box is connected to the Dynamis, the programming track output is from the Dynamis Command Station track output and not from the Pro Box track output.

There is no programming track output on the Pro Box.

The track output on the Command Station becomes a Service Track output, switchable between normal track output and programming track output.

 

I agree with you that in Dynamis Pro configuration, any additional Booster should only be connected to the Pro Box track output and not the Command Station track output.

 

 

[Just as an aside; the physical design of the Dynamis / Navigator components, matches that of the ESU ECoSBoost; the latter seemingly originally intended to be a compatible Booster for this DCC system as well as the full-fat ECoS.

The units will all stack neatly together.

Unfortunately the ECoSBoost took on altogether grander attributes and a price to match.]

 

 

 

.

Ron,

 

Thanks for the clarification. I deliberately tried to stick to general principles as I don't have a Dynamis. Apologies if in the process I may have mislead anyone.

 

The ECoSLink system has master and slave units. Master units of which there have only been two  so far, namely the ECoS 1 and ECoS 2, have a 7 pin mini DIN socket, whilst slave units, such as the ECoSBoost or ECoSDetector have a 6 pin mini DIN socket. To connect them you use a special 7 to 6 pin mini DIN lead, as supplied with slave units.

 

The ECoSLink port on the Pro Box is a 6 pin socket making it a slave. Hence you cannot connect an ECoSBoost to it. It looks the same as the Pro Box as ESU used an existing casing for the Dynamis base unit and also for the Pro Box. The design allows for easy stacking, One ECoSBoost on top of another, or the Dynamis base unit on top of the Pro Box. In the case of the Dynamis, stacking also makes the necessary connections between the Base and Pro Box units.

 

I believe that the ECoSBoost predates the Pro Box, first going on sale in late 2007/early 2008.

 

The Bachmann EZ Command Booster is intended to fit between the output of the EZCommand Unit, or the Dynamis, and the track, and in the process make the internal booster in the EZ Command or Dynamis base unit redundant. But there is no reason why it should not be used as I described provided its DCC IN jack is connected to whichever socket is used as the main track output on a Dynamis Pro Box based system, and great care is taken to make sure that the output from the booster is kept totally separate from the output from the Dynamis.

[Despatcher]

If you have problems with short wheelbase locos such as your 03 then it could be that dirty or uneven track is the problem or poor pickups, or dead frogs on your pointwork if you use insulfrog style points.

 

I can't find a copy of the manual for the Bachmann EZ Command booster anywhere on the 'net, so the following advice is based on how I would expect the booster to be connected. The  "DCC IN" jack on the booster is connected to the main track output of the host system i.e. the Dynamis, in parallel with the existing connections to the track and the output from the Booster either goes to a new power district, or you use it to power the accesssories and leave the Dymanis to power the track. You will have to keep the frog juicers connected to whichever system supplies the power to the track.

 

Alternatively, you connect the main track output from the Pro Box to the "DCC IN" jack, and the make all your conenctiosn to the track and accessory decoders to the output from the booster. If you do it this way the only conenction from the Dynamis main track output must be to the booster, nothing else. Yuo can still use the programming track output on the Pro Box as normal provided the programming track is NOT connected to the layout in any way. 

 

You do not lose the programming track output if you add any make of booster to a Dymamis Pro Box system. Connecting the booster to the programming track output on the Pro Box seems to me to be a particularly bad idea, and I'm very surprised that it has been suggested anywhere by anyone.

Because the problem has existed for a while, the track, points, wheels, contacts, etc , etc are so squeaky clean they would be allowed in an operating theatre and still the problem exists. The problem also exists on my rolling road which is also surgically clean. This only applies to small wheelbase locos 03 shunters, 08 shunters and pannier tanks. Absolutely everyting else I have runs on speed step 1 of 28 from one end of the layout to the other with sound and lights on over all sixteen points without even thinking about hesitating. Most annoying

[GoingUnderground]

If it only applies to your short wheelbase locos, where space can be limited to install a decoder, it does make me wonder if the problem is that the motors are drawing more current than the decoders can supply. Alternatively the decoders might be overheating. What decoders are you using, and have you wrapped them in insulating tape ot insulating sleeves?

 

Try running one on your rollign road with he body removed and any insulation that you've added removed to see if the problem goes away. If it does then it may well be overheating that's the problem.

[Despatcher]

If it only applies to your short wheelbase locos, where space can be limited to install a decoder, it does make me wonder if the problem is that the motors are drawing more current than the decoders can supply. Alternatively the decoders might be overheating. What decoders are you using, and have you wrapped them in insulating tape ot insulating sleeves?

 

Try running one on your rollign road with he body removed and any insulation that you've added removed to see if the problem goes away. If it does then it may well be overheating that's the problem.

 

Many thanks. Been away for a few days so apologies for not replying sooner. The Locos run on other layouts and your considered reply would lead me back to looking at my control system or the total left field salt crystals theory. Both seem feasible, even if one will only apply to layouts very near the sea of which I suspect there are not that many. I will also try your suggestion. Thanks.

[Despatcher]

So, with many thanks to all the replies at a tangent which have given me food for thought, I would like to go back to my original question. Would the Z21 be a good replacement for a Bachmann Dynamis? It would appear I could split my layout in to two power districts, and possibly "sort" the problems with my current set up as I have learned from the advice I have been given, and still have walk around capability or is there another system with equal or better qualities. Thanks.

[Phil S]

it might be worth mentioning here, that there are now 2 models of 'Zed Twenty One' from Roco/Fleischmann:

 

There is the originally announced Z21 (UPPER CASE Z )  in a BLACK box, with  Expressnet Ports for backward compatibility with Multimaus.

 

(Although I am confused slightly by statements at the Nuremburg Show saying 'Multimaus Models' (plural) - if I heard correctly, as apart from differing lanuguage combinations, I'm only aware of 1 model of Multimaus, other than the MultimausPRO which only has Wireless (ZigBee) connection, and therefore unfortunately appears to a dead-end ?????)

 

INCLUDED IN STARTER SETS: is the z21 (lower case z) in a white box with no, or some missing ports .... implying for use with Ipads/Androids etc only ???

 

In the same way, The Hornby Railmaster Software appears to be moving to 2 branches?: Connection via Elite - allowing other Expressnet Handsets, or the new E-link which APPEARS from the description / pictures to have only the PC connection [ at a price barely more than the original software?? ], and direct to Track ( similar to Sprog, in effect ) - but with programming and running track connections (assuming that is the purpose of the 2 pairs of Red/Black terminals).

There may of course be descriptive errors - as in one place, 500 points are referred to, and elsewhere 2000 8-)

 

Choice of System remains a moving target !

[PaulRhB]

There's a thread on the Z21 already that's slowly expanding as a couple of us have them. http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/63888-roco-z21/page-2?

 

Basic setup is a command station plus wifi router. It does not include a throttle! If you have a tablet or smartphone that's not a problem but otherwise figure an iPod touch or basic tablet into the price.

It's 3.2 amp out put and there is an identical rated power booster available. I bought it after being assured its fully compatible through the bus with other boosters too like Uhlenbrock which I'll need the extra amps ,7.5 in this case, for G scale.

If you like wireless and the cost of adding smartphone or tablet throttles makes it less attractive look at the digitrax systems as they have an additional radio throttle available to expand the set at £90 ish. It's less intuitive but very good.