brightspark Posted February 28, 2013 Share Posted February 28, 2013 As I have never done it myself, I shall follow you DCC conversions with intrest. I take it that there is no sound involved? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelW Posted February 28, 2013 Author Share Posted February 28, 2013 Hi Brightspark, I have to admit that the conversions I did last weekend were done in a particularly hamfisted way. Putting in the chip the first time was really quite easy, and I'd say I took about half an hour to go from running on DC to running on DCC, including collecting everything out the bags I'd brought them home in and spread liberally around the house. After that I started to do silly things, and got annoyed at it, but didn't stop to calm down till it was too late. No, no sound, at least, no DCC sound. Michael Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelW Posted February 28, 2013 Author Share Posted February 28, 2013 I'm in a bit of a quandary at the moment. I'm enjoying shunting wagons around the yard I've setup on the floorboarding in the lounge: However, the boards should [will! - ed] be moving soon to be a floor upstairs, so I'll lose my play area. No, the question is, do I put together a quick layout build to allow me to keep playing, or do I leave it and slow time a better researched and properly built layout? Oooo... decisions, decisions, decisions... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold ChrisN Posted February 28, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 28, 2013 Michael, I would leave it and take time or you will regret it in the long run. However, do you know what space you will have? If so could you set up a board and put some temporary track up like you have now. Also, you may be able to refine your track plan with your testing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted February 28, 2013 Share Posted February 28, 2013 Michael, I would leave it and take time or you will regret it in the long run. However, do you know what space you will have? If so could you set up a board and put some temporary track up like you have now. Also, you may be able to refine your track plan with your testing. Or you could do a small layout that will be incorperated into a later larger project, such as a depot or goods shed for shunting. Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelW Posted March 1, 2013 Author Share Posted March 1, 2013 Interesting idea Andy, but I think that would require a lot of planning so it would fit. And that kinda defeats the 'quick and dirty' approach I was thinking of. I've been having a look for inspiration through the 'Past and Present' books. Not found much yet unfortunately... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelW Posted March 1, 2013 Author Share Posted March 1, 2013 Michael, I would leave it and take time or you will regret it in the long run. However, do you know what space you will have? If so could you set up a board and put some temporary track up like you have now. Also, you may be able to refine your track plan with your testing. I suspect you are right there, rushing in without thinking is probably a bad idea. The space question is an interesting one, I've got to decide what I'm doing with the rooms upstairs that the flooring boards are destined for before I can answer that. Though I suspect 12ft total length will be about it. Looking at it, with 3 coach trains that's 4ft for a fiddle yard, and 8ft for scenics. So a nice short station would be good... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Jason T Posted March 1, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 1, 2013 Do you really want to run passenger stock Michael? I say that because, curious type that I am and knowing nothing about the areas around either Corkerhill or Beattock, I did a search on Google Earth and traced some railway lines that would likely have used engines from Corkerhill (I've not got to Beattock yet). Anyway, I followed one to the west of Glasgow and it led me to Ardeer, which has a passenger station and what-not, but also has a large ICI owned complex that I haven't yet clarified the purpose of but a few of the pages hint at secret or hidden..... What Google Earth does show though, is a couple of (still existing) fans of sidings, of which I presume that one will be for the works and one for the exchange to BR. And that got me thinking that you could possibly model some exchange sidings, main line in the background on an embankment as a backdrop (doesn't even need to be working) and the line to / from the exchange sidings passing under the main line (which would act as a scenic break of sorts, to the FY). A chemical plant would need all sorts of goods in and who knows what would go out, but you could easily justify open wagons, hoppers, vans, tankers and those lovely Covhops when they finally come out. Not only that, but you could have an industrial shunter or two and because they are exchange sidings, never actually have to model the industrial buildings that they serve. Works sidings as they currently stand: Exchange sidings with BR line running along the top: Although bearing little relation to the above, I have had a mess-around with Anyrail and come up with the below which at a push, could fit in 12' x 2'. Trains from BR arrive in the reception sidings and either the industrial shunter draws the wagons off and shunts them around, or if one is unavailable then the BR loco could reverse the train (possibly in sections, leaving some of it on the arrival road / FY road) into the run-round look and shunt itself. There is no fiddle yard for the industrial line (no space in 12') but as long as it was implied and the purpose was to shunt and also have arriving and departing trains from BR, then you wouldn't really need one. Of course, the 'beauty' of a site such as this is that you can run it for a number of periods with only a change of stock necessary. Disclaimer: my plan is probably crap but I did only take 10 minutes over it. I started to do it in Templot and then thought *%$&% that Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelW Posted March 1, 2013 Author Share Posted March 1, 2013 Ooooo.... I like it.... Thank you Jason, I'd got stuck thinking station... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brightspark Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 The trouble with stations is that they use up so much room. I used to think that stations on model layouts were compulsary (along with the bus on the bridge etc) until I read Mr Rice's books on layout design. He holds the view that stations require a lot of space for little action (playability) in return. So the thinking is frieght only lines or industrial as you can run shorter trains, have more variety of stock and do some shunting. i.e. more play value than just running a passenger train in, run the engine around and out again. Looking through Iains Book Layout Design Finescale in small places, he has two plans at just over 11', I am sure that any of them could be modified to fit your location. Or even consider building two smaller layouts side by side with a fiddle yard behind one of them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelW Posted March 1, 2013 Author Share Posted March 1, 2013 Jason, you've got a lot to answer for... I've spent the morning sneaking round the interweb looking at Ardeer, and am getting more and more intrigued by the possibilities. Not only is there the ICI plant with all its various traffic flows, but there appears to have been an ironworks of some description there too. In theory they were on different yards, but a single set of exchange sidings sounds plausable... Even more interesting is that there were two railway lines running through the area, not just one. The one we see now is the Ardrossan Railway (which became part of the Glasgow and South Western Railway), the other, which runs approximately along the line of the exchange sidings in your second photo, was the Lanarkshire and Ayrshire, which became part of the Caledonian, and duplicated a lot of the Ardrossan's route. I'm thinking in terms of a plan - double track along the rear, feeding a siding on the left, trains arrive from the right, into the siding, then reverse into the exchange sidings, loco picks up a different train, and departs. Local shunter appears and moves wagons around as needed into sidings front left and centre. With lines running off to the right for other parts of the complex... Hmmm... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelW Posted March 1, 2013 Author Share Posted March 1, 2013 Oh, and yes, I agree with your comments on Templot - it's great for laying out track and getting smooth trackwork. It's a bit rubbish if all you want to do is sketch out a quick plan... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelW Posted March 1, 2013 Author Share Posted March 1, 2013 BrightSpark, Yes, I think I agree with you (and Iain) stations can take up a lot of space, and the passenger side can be fairly boring to operate. However you always have the freight side to liven things up, and with a reasonable size (3 siding) yard, plus a couple of local industries, you get a reasonable amount of shunting potential to play with. However, such sized stations would rarely have been that busy, so a full day's operation may have 3-5 passenger trains, and one or maybe two goods trains. What I liked about Balloch was that it was effectively a terminus station, with 2 branches serving it (a little like Jason's Bacup). One branch is a commuter line to Glasgow, so regular trains throughout the day, the other was a cross country line to Perth / Stirling, so again, maybe 3 or 4 passenger trains each day from that direction. Freight wise it had a 3 or 4 siding goods yard, and two nearby industries, so plenty of options for shunting, with again trains from two different sources, both of which would shunt the yard, and would need to swap some wagons. All good from an operating potential point of view. Unfortunately, it was a very linear station, with the goods yard beyond the station. Not so good from a length perspective, especially when the passenger trains would be 6ft (or more) long. I shall see if I can find a copy of the Iain Rice book, and have a look at his plans, and see if anything jumps out at me... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold martin_wynne Posted March 1, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 1, 2013 Oh, and yes, I agree with your comments on Templot - it's great for laying out track and getting smooth trackwork. It's a bit rubbish if all you want to do is sketch out a quick plan... Hi Michael, That's not the purpose of Templot. The assumption is that you have some idea what you want to do before you start. However, you can create rough plans very quickly using F7 snapping functions: More about this: http://templot.com/martweb/f7_snap_demo.htm regards, Martin. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythocentric Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 Hi Michael First visit for a while and I'm delighted to see that the steam bug is now very firmly entrenched. Also pleased to see you thinking along the branchline/sidings theme. Theres a lot more fun to be had along these lines with some fascinating operations. Like a lot of other people I'm much more interested in freight operations. Big, shiny loco's were nice to see but they were'nt the 'bread and butter' of the railways, that was freight operation in all it's multitude and variety plus an amazing mix of locomotive classes! Just an observation on decoders. Like you I've had some 'interesting' experiences with them and I now follow this route: If the loco you want is available DCC Fitted (decoder on board!), buy it! Otherwise buy the decoder at the same time and ask the guy in the model shop to fit it! Richard at The Train Shop does mine in minutes while I wait. Its way better on the nerves to know that the little piece of tech you've just struggled with isn't going to disappear in a puff of smoke as soon as you switch on! Looking forward to developments Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelW Posted March 1, 2013 Author Share Posted March 1, 2013 Hi Bill, Yes, I'm beginning to appreciate that - particularly once you get away from modern multiple unit operation. I think I've been dazzled by the big shiny locos thing for a while, but it's nice to emerge on the other side, and see that there is something much more fun to be had in sleepy backwaters. The decoders were fun, I've now got two working DCC enabled locos, and feel that I can take on most modern locos with a decoder and win. Still don't fancy rewiring a non-DCC ready loco though. Getting it done for me could be a good idea, if I get another one... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
emt_911 Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 Michael I don't know about 'kettles' but with the diesels it is fairly straight forward. (even I can do it) Duncan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelW Posted March 1, 2013 Author Share Posted March 1, 2013 Hi Duncan, The steam locos aren't too bad, I just did something silly (bent a pin through carelessness), got annoyed, but didn't stop. I think the main learning point there is to stop and walk away when things are going badly wrong... The 4MT was quite quick and relatively easy to do despite other people's comments that it was a pain. I can imagine that diesels are easier. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythocentric Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 Snip: Getting it done for me could be a good idea, if I get another one... Ahem!!!! Don't you mean when you get another one.......? Now the Hughes 2-6-0 'Crabs' were very popular loco's with their crews and were widespread throughout the system in England and Scotland where they replaced many of the older 'native' loco's. With a similar role to BR 2-6-0 4MT's they're always a worthwhile addition. Ungainly, but very attractive machines with that high-stepped running plate over the cylinders. When you see the motion in action you soon see why they gained that 'Crab' nickname! Not that I'm trying to influence you in any way! Good heavens forbid! Last thing on my mind! (Hee Hee) Just because they're my favourite loco and I happen to have four of them. OK! I admit it, I'm biased. Sad to say the ones I have are all split-chassis versions which I intend to replace, as soon as Bachmann remember they came in other than LMS Crimson livery, because there's no way I'm going to attempt to hard wire them. Actually having the chip in the tender does make life rather easier these days. The problems come when you try to narrow that unsightly gap you usually get between tender and cab. I'd love to hear from anyone whose found an easier way than shortening those link wires and resoldering! Have fun Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
emt_911 Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 Michael It's if you try to convert from DC to DCC without being DCC ready that things could get potentialy interesting. I've done this with a couple of my diesels which is pretty easy with the amount of space available. Duncan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelW Posted March 1, 2013 Author Share Posted March 1, 2013 No, definitely if! Afterall, I might drop dead tomorrow There were quite a few of the LMS Crabs about at Glasgow, but I have to admit I didn't give them a second look (must have been all that red paint). I've had a look at a few photos on the web, and yes, they do have a similar charm to the 4MTs, and they do appear in some of the shed lists with 76114, so can go on the list. Not that such a list exists Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Alister_G Posted March 2, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 2, 2013 Just because they're my favourite loco and I happen to have four of them. OK! I admit it, I'm biased. Sad to say the ones I have are all split-chassis versions which I intend to replace, as soon as Bachmann remember they came in other than LMS Crimson livery, because there's no way I'm going to attempt to hard wire them. Actually having the chip in the tender does make life rather easier these days. The problems come when you try to narrow that unsightly gap you usually get between tender and cab. I'd love to hear from anyone whose found an easier way than shortening those link wires and resoldering! Have fun Bill Bill, not sure if you're joking or not, but I've just chipped a Crab of mine, which is a Bachmann DCC ready in BR black Early Emblem, Model number 32-176. The socket is in the middle of the boiler, and I found I could get a Lenz Standard chip in the firebox above the motor. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted March 2, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 2, 2013 Morning Michael. I can see where all the posts are coming from. This thread is very interesting and has really taken off. I think it should be required reading for modellers just getting into steam locos / DCC / track and layout design etc etc. It's excellent! Good to see the Lunesters in here and plenty of other active contributors. Apologies for my intermittent visits. Rather busy with KL at the moment - especially as I now have both Up and Down mainlines fully functional. It'll be interesting to see how you expand your collection and the layout you eventually come up with. Listen to what Jason has to say - he really does talk a lot of sense. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelW Posted March 2, 2013 Author Share Posted March 2, 2013 Hi Alistair, Good to know the Crab is easy to chip. I can see me getting one at some point, probably as Bill says, when they appear in BR Black again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelW Posted March 2, 2013 Author Share Posted March 2, 2013 Morning Jeff, Yes, it is nice to have plenty of people contributing, chipping in with their experience and throwing around ideas. Certainly does give me a lot to think about. Particularly that Sandside chap, though work may not agree. Don't worry about not getting to visit that often, reading your thread is turning into quite an inspiration! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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