Hyper tension / high blood pressure

[tetleys]

I don't want to turn RMWeb into an extension to The Lancet but I know there are quite a few members out there who may share a medical problem I have suffered for several years and that is Hyper tension or simply high blood pressure despite being an avid none smoker , moderate drinker and general healthy life leader. I was told like others I would be taking three seperate drugs daily for life just to control it since it could not be cured.

 

My more recent and far more devastating  prognosis of cancer when the medical experts virtually wrote me off lead Julie and me to seek our own alternative medicine solution, we've always expected and indeed to have to self achieve but this was a bit of a blow.

 

We have adopted a rather radical route which I'm convinced the vast majority of patients would never entertain but at least in part it is not so 'Snake Oil /whitch Doctor'. The upshot is that in probably less than a week and certainly within less than four weeks by diet alone and total exclusion of alcohol (which I no longer like the tast of) salt and sadly a whole host of what some would deem essential food and drinks I have brought my high blood pressure to such low levels as to have my GP and cancer specialist stop all further Hyper tension medication immediately. This was confirmed by the usual ambulatory extended monitoring, it will be repeated in five weeks but I do not expect nor intend to return to drug dependency.

 

A side issue is that the prescribed drugs were actually very harmful to my current cancer problems. I'm no where near out of the woods nor even within sight but a good result nevertheless and proof that thinking outside of the conventional box has benefits.

 

Ever hopeful Dave (Tetleys) Shakespeare

[BoD]

'Ever hopeful Dave'

 

Keep hoping.

Keep fighting.

[Metr0Land]

That's great to hear.

 

A couple of years ago I was diagnosed with age-onset diabetes (ie Type 2).  Fortunately nothing like cancer and my blood pressure was ok but I was overweight.

 

Anway, by cutting down portions a bit, cutting out sugar in tea, coffee, drinking chocolate etc, not snacking between meals, and getting more exercise (ie 4 or 5 x 20mins vigorous walking a week) I managed to lose approx a pound a week/a kilo a fortnight.  In the space of 3 months I'd lost a stone painlessly and my blood sugar became (and has remained) on the high end of 'normal'.

 

I'm not banned alcohol, but only drank in moderation anyway (honest).  The only medication I'm on is 2 metformin tablets a day which is pretty much as low as you can get without being on anything.

 

So yes. a 'healthy lifestyle' can make a big improvement and the sacrifices for me weren't that radical.

[simon hudson]

I was told I had High Bp about 15yrs ago after the usual M.O.T for this then 40 year old. I was put on to medication and told thats it you are on them for the rest of your life.Thats when funny things started to happen I grew breasts got swollen ankles and started getting funny vision and dizzy spells.I never ever used to read the bumpf that came with medication. It was through a customer at work I was pointed in the right direction and was advised to read the side effects of my medication.

To cut a long story short I had a radical re-think and changed my lifestyle.ended up with a new doctor and after chatting with him I was made aware that I didn't neccesarily have to be on BP tablets for the rest of my natural I came off the BP tablets about 7 yrs ago( with my doctors permission).I have a check up every 6 months and touch wood I've had no problems

[New Haven Neil]

Yup, been a slave to them for 20 years, although a change of gGP when we came here has helped enormously, due to him being younger and more up to date on meds.  A change last year produced breasts, yes...changed away immedialtely, still got some moobs though.

 

Dave I would love to hear some detail of your diet - I take no salt, a little alcohol in the form of red wine, and am pretty sensible with diet - what is it that is working so well for you?

 

PM if you don't want the 'lancet' discussion here you mentioned?

 

Thanks

Neil

[jukebox]

I don't want to turn RMWeb into an extension to The Lancet ....

*snip*

Ever hopeful Dave (Tetleys) Shakespeare

 

Oh, I don't know Dave - we'd be alright as long as we called it The Scalpel, surely?

 

I too would be interested in what mods you made to your diet to have such an impact.  I have been on hypertension drugs more than half my life...

 

Cheers

 

Scott

[Sidecar Racer]

Dave , glad you've found someting that is making a difference for you .

 

I too would be interested in what mods you made to your diet to have such an impact.  I have just been put on hypertension drugs ,

I'm trying to make other changes too , I rarely drink but my diet is probably not the best , and I'm in the process of getting off the

smokes .

[griffgriff]

Good luck Dave... my hypertension is hereditary and although I was seriously miffed at the beginning I have grown to accept it, it's well controlled now and I only stamp my feet at the prescription charges. In actuallity it has ceased to be a concern.

 

Cancer on the hand is more of a worry and I hope you get it sorted as swiftly and comfortably as possible.

[finelines]

There is one piece of advice I want to give you about health matters.

 

Make sure you are giving informed consent.

 

Why are they doing what they are planning? What are the down sides? What will happen if you don't take their advice and over what period?

 

Roger

 

Ps most things that come under the heading of healthy eating probably aren't!

[PhilJ W]

It is important to read the the instructions that come with prescription drugs. I too have hypertension, I also have rheumatoid arthritis the medication for which I had to cease as the two drugs cancelled each other out. The arthritis drug was aspirin based and aspirin is a big no-no. One of the side effects of the hypertension drug is eczema particularly on the lower legs. I have found that using plain soap or Wrights Coal Tar soap eases the eczema as does eliminating  certain washing powders and all fabric conditioners.

[45156]

I am having "conventional" treatment for hypertension, which is now THREE drugs, plus one more to counter the side effects of the cocktail - also at least one of the drugs effects seem to be marginalised I also have diabetes.  Wow - there has to be an alternative out there somewhere.

 

Keep fighting, Dave....

[Guest 838rapid]

I had a Pre Med yesterday for an up coming bit of surgery...

 

I told them my height,weight and b/p before they did the usual..

 

My Height is 5"11, My weight 17.5 Stone and my b.p is 148/80...

 

All went well till the BP.

 

148 over 101..

 

The Nurses face was a picture ,fear,,, ha ha

 

I assured her not to worry then showed her a picture from June in Hospital when it was 205/101..

 

I do wonder that they worry to much.

 

I dont drink,epilepsy put paid to that although I was never more than 2 pints a week and have never smoked just a bit big boned..

 

I have to take a pill called Perindoril 8mgs a day,Just another pill to the epilepsy ones..

 

Have had HYPER tension since my early 20's

 

I do wonder how people got on years ago when it was not know...

 

They cause me stress worrying about my BP.

 

Keep Fighting though Dave,good luck and Best wishes

[tetleys]

There are a number of issues here that I will try and answer. I don't want to enlarge on my cancer treatment because I don't want to tempt fate nor suggest a false dawn, I'm afraid I remain in a very serious condition but following some badgering from Julie and me I received a biopsy the results of which give a very dim glimmer of light from a start in a distant galaxy whereas before was a black hole then original terminal outcome and therefore no hope was correctly reported by Gilbert Barnatt on another post were accurate on the medical prognosis available then.

 

We only went down the self help route because we had at the time no other avenue, I am now confident that my local specialsts and GP etc are giving 100% and their advice and treatment will take precedence over everything, I am their best patient ever and will go anywhere, do anything, suffer any inconvenience/ discomfort and pain to improve there will be no compromise. 

 

Returning to the Hyper tension.

 

We investigated the Gerson Therapy that involves the body self healing through enzimes,diet and self de-toxification but centres on hourly half pint drinks of freshly juice carrots, apples green veg, normal juicers destroy the vital enzimes by their action so I found the money (who wouldn't?) to have a special juicer manufactured and shipped from The USA this was an eye watering £2300 ! We buy fruit and veg in bulk and Julie preps the juices not every hour but three times a day but drunk every hour, ok some loss of enzimes but impossible to do hourly. I am virtually vegan, no salt, no nuts, no milk, cheese, no caffien drinks only two slices of rye or sour dough bread organic honey, as many spuds as I want, only flax seed oil including two table spoons full a day (tastes like linseed oil) twice daily bowls of soup, no strong spices including pepper. Lots of veg and salads with a dressing of flax oil, garlic a little unrefined brown sugar and CIDRE vinegar. breakfast is porridge made with water and dried fruit. Plus other restrictions and severe limits on ingredients too many to list.

 

As you can see not many people could afford to buy the juicer, have a partner available 24/7 to help and have the will power to eat tasteless food with little texture and forgo normal everyday pleasures and stick to it 100% especially when a flood of family and guests are eating the gastronomic delights Julie is capable of serving all around. There is one other procedure we do five times a day that is not for mentioning in polite society and that does work in de-toxing to help a devestated liver. And I'm eating like a horse!

 

This regime is primarilly to help fight the cancer and my improved physical condition proves it works and the specialist confirms increased liver function a host of other positives and the animal product free diet is perfect when I start my chemo treatment afterwhich I need to return to animal protein to re-build lost muscle. AND I WILL FOLLOW MEDICAL ADVICE 100%.

 

The hyper tension aspect is a very welcome bonus and I don't suggest it is at all necessary to follow my Gerson Therapy but clearly the total absence of salt, alcohol, caffien, I've never smoked anyway but obviously the weed,all processed especially fatty junk food is probably what has brought my BP down Believe me when you have two options only a fool would resist abstaining or not eating a necessary food and sorry guys easy for me but is that nicotine really worth the down side?

 

Dave Shakespeare

[New Haven Neil]

That's one heck of a regime Dave, but I see where you're coming from.

 

Not that I could afford the juicer, but is it easy to explain in what way it differs from the usual sort?

 

Keep at it, and think of scruffy B1's!

[tetleys]

That's one heck of a regime Dave, but I see where you're coming from.

 

Not that I could afford the juicer, but is it easy to explain in what way it differs from the usual sort?

 

Keep at it, and think of scruffy B1's!

Apparently it is the only one recommended by The Gerson Therapy since the half horse power motor! really masicates the fruit/ veg to a very fine pulp (it will mill flour and even make peanut butter such is the efficiency) once the masicated fruit / veg comes out of the cutter into special washable bags it is stacked in twos and placed in a very strong hydraulic press that swueezes every last drop of juice rather than by centrifuge that destroys goodness. The price difference is enormous but frankly when faced with my grave situation I had to find the money, it does exactly what it says on the tin but i could never recommend one just as a lifestyle but as a possible life saver what price that lifeline?

 

Broke but healthier of Ancaster

[Theakerr]

Most interesting about the pressing.  i used to visit a town in Russia and I noted that their juice, especially their Cranberry juice always tasted better than ours back in Canada.  I was told that unlike NA, they press all their fruits to get the juices out because they felt it was so much better.  Re diet, I would also add that proper mastication can have an impact when eating solid foods.  Remember how your mother would always be at you to chew your food before swallowing.  All i want to say is that since November I have only taken about 10 of my ant-acid pills and before November i was on 1 or two every day.

[Sasquatch]

Dave. Just spent the past hour with one eye on the television and the other on a blank computer screen wondering how to politely recommend a raw food diet!

As you can see I live over here/there where medicine is looked at rather differently.( I won't go into why).The type one diabetes isn't going away and the insulin regime is a pain in the arse (quite literally). When I moved to Oregon I was worried about health care, mainly the cost. So I set about beating it with raw food diet,.I'm virtually a raw foodie now and have a stable blood sugar, have beaten off some complications, am on half the insulin I was in Europe and will not accept all those drugs my doctor keeps trying to push on me.The last one to lower BP nearly killed me as it was recommened to all diabetics to help preserve the kidneys. started fainting on the third day, good job I wasn't driving.  It feels like I'm 20 again.

 

Human beings walked around eating raw food for millions of years. Our bodies can't evolve in less than two generations to do otherwise!

Two things you might also consider are buying organic food products and this http://www.longevity..._Salts_Book.pdf

 

I`m putting my money on team Shakespeare.

Didn't Arnold also say "I'll be back”?

 

There's been a fresh fall of snow and Mrs. Sasquatch has hit the sack so I'm off out to leave some more big foot prints.

 

All the very best Shaun.

[New Haven Neil]

Thanks for the explanation Dave, pressing vs centrifuging - off to research it ! 

[tetleys]

Folks

 

A quick update, latest blood tests for cancer treatment confirms now all residual Hyper Tension drugs out of the system my blood pressure is steady and normal resting pulse at 64 but I need to work on that once I get back cycling.

 

Dave

[Mallard60022]

Well Dave this is great news for you and probably very good news for some others of us out here.

I hate my BP tablets and Statins and their side affects. I've never felt right since starting them a couple of years back, especially in the first six months when the chest cramps and similar were very frightening. My GP is OK and 'we' tried one other type of BP med, but that made my ankles swell up - yuch.

Your story here has inspired me to really get to grips with losing another couple of stone (that would make me 13st) if I can and further  modify my diet. If that then results in proper BP without meds I'd be so pleased.

Thanks mate and all the very best to you and MrsTetleys.

P @36E

[Kenton]

I do wonder how people got on years ago when it was not know...

If it was really high they judt didn't. People in general died much younger from all sorts of ailments that today are controlled if not cured.

 

But I am afraid I'm also very much GP aware and suspicious of the pharmaceutical industry motives. It is good to hear of a non-pharma approach that is working even if it might be put down to placebo effect (if you think it will work, it just might) and mind-over-matter. Though I have to say this one sounds pretty radical and extreme. It should be a choice, and a life decision - if things are so bad most people will try almost anything, then if it works it is down to will power to endure either the treatment or the side effects.

 

I count myself fortunate as I do not suffer from hypertension and am unlikely to do so - I have the opposite "problem". The main reason to get your BP down during an op is so that you do not spray it all over the place when they cut

[Donw]

Good news Dave. Marion's aunt was put on BP tablets but hurridly taken off them after fainting in the high st. Both her Mum and Dad were on BP and chloresterol tablets for years. Mum was taken off them as they were causing dizzy spells. For the last two years of their life they were both suffering from loss of body weight we were struggling to get them to eat enough. It wasn't until I suggested it to the doctor that they were taken off statins and told to forget the low fat foods.

I have been a vegetarian for over 40 years vegan for part of it.  but that proved too much for Marions so we have some dairy, eggs and a little fish. However we do eat a lot of fresh and raw food. I am convinced that if a large part of your diet is healthy high fibre food your body can then cope with some less healthy things. The other thing is suitable exercise because of the dogs we walk for a minimum one one hour a day more often two to three fairly briskly and including some hills. Plus a reasonably active life for the rest of the day.

 

The test they do are meaning less as individuals vary I have two friends who both had heart attacks with a chloresterol level of around 4. So they would have been ok on that count.

 

Don

[Legend]

You know this is a really tricky one. Its difficult to know who to trust. I used to defer to Doctors as people who were professionally trained and always knew what they were doing - you know, the old Dr Finlay stereotype. The reality is somewhat different with 10 mins your appointed time with Dr who is also now a business, meaning that he 'll put you on the cheapest drug available.

 

I went because I was aware of sweating profusely. I researched it on internet ( a case of a little knowledge is dangerous) and it said I might have high bp. So off I trotted to doctors . 190/130 was reading . So on drugs straight away building upto 3 pills a day. It's still high at 148/90 but a lot better. However my point is I was prescribed Ramapril. My sister who is a nurse, warned me to get off it immediately as it can cause liver damage. Doctor was extremely reluctant but eventually changed me to Losartan. And. Subsequently found out the reason is that ramapril is the choice drug for under 50s because it's less expensive.

 

I'm now wondering if alternative treatments would be better . I have upped my exercise but I am in a fairly high pressure job, actually I probably make my own pressure! But only trouble is do you go against medical advice (even if it does seem to be standard without a great deal of reference to medical history) or do you stick to it. Not sure I'm brave enough to reject drs advice!

 

Anyway, best wishes to Dave. He doesn't know me but I feel like I know him ever since his first appearance in Model Rail. My concerns are small in comparison and it kind of puts whether there are sprung buffers on a 2 BIL in perspective!

[tetleys]

I didn't want to turn this thread into a SOAP  or an issue of the Lancet but by keeping tabs on other members comments I can see it is a very topical subject affecting more of us than I realised so I am happy to 'Bear All' to dispel any presumptions or indeed give any false hopes, my rough, previous to cancer medical condition and history of Hyper tension is as follows.

 

I'm 62, 6'-2" Hang on a minute this is starting to sound like an on-line dating agency!

 

Anyway as I was saying 62years  height 6'2" normal weight 13 stone never, ever smoked, like a drink but not a boozer nor regular pub'er eat plenty of healthy food, salads all my life (mum is Austrian) never junk food nor convenience ready meals moderate meat of all varieties. I was very active, cycled back from Gibraltar because I was celebrating being 50 did 1300 miles in 13 days, regular brisk cycle training doing over 90 miles a week sometimes more. Regular long distance multi day walker, skier, a very retired Police Officer very stable family and happy married life, the only stress I suffered was to turn right or left at the end of my road for cycling.

 

I was diagnosed with Hyper tension out of the blue about 5-6 years ago after a ski trip in Austria with a cousin who's wife admittedly smoked for the Austrian Olympic coughing team.My GP told me not to worry with my fitness levels but it was a precaution against increased likelyhood of a stroke or heart problems which is sound advice. I was prescribed Rampiril 10mg ,Bendroflumethiazide 2.5mg and Amlodipine 5mg and this kept the BP at normal levels. Despite continuing my moderate lifestyle the BP remained drug controlled. 30 months ago I greatly reduced my cycling whilst we built our home but physically building and labouring for upto 14 hours a day 7 days a week more than compensated for not cycling and having built one house I wasn't stressed with this one. But I note a couple of comments by others "crippling chest pains" I did experience those to such an extent over a month I went straight to the GP, no problems with heart, not a heart attack probaly pulled a muscle ???????

 

My sudden reversion to a normal BP without the need for drugs was a happy bonus from a very, very radical diet change to fight a very serious cancer, it was never a consideration so I don't think there was a placeabo effect and it is holding steady, I have ordered a personal BP monitor to ensure it does. I do not suggest for a moment that the diet could or indeed should be adopted to achieve the same dramatic results, but given my own desperate and frankly hopeless circumstances  Julie and I were prepared to commit 100% at great financial, personal, costs and with great inconvenience not to mention sacrificing the majority of food and drink that give any taste or pleasure in life, my meals are at best boring and the act of a very desperate man.

 

I am not going to criticise the medical profession nor lecture others but without the cancer and knowing what I do now would I follow the Gerson therapy vegan, style diet to rid myself of the drug dependency? I have to say yes BUT I would not shell out £2300 for the juicer and I think I'd do it slower because I consider some salt is needed to flavour some bland food ie soups our speciality before and now rubbish without a flavour enhancer.

 

Good luck to to anybody bold enough and able to modify their lifestyle it does work but probably not quite as dramatically as in my case.

 

Dave Shakespeare

[alastairq]

But I note a couple of comments by others "crippling chest pains" I did experience those to such an extent over a month I went straight to the GP, no problems with heart, not a heart attack probaly pulled a muscle ???????

 

 

Not trying to be an expert here, but......another source of 'chest pain' could be [and was, in my case....suffered decades ago, but now realise what it was]..... a hiatus hernia? I have a 'fixed' one....even stayed awake for the camera-down-the-throat thing....got to see a part of the world I would never ever have seen anyhow.....all on telly...this get me a gallon of gaviscon every moth [over-60, prescriptions free].......likely happened in my late teens, suffered severe chest pains, carted off to hospital for tests [in Tobruk, of all places]....inconclusive...all thought I'd either had a heart attack, or been sniffing too many Kirkuk crude fumes........anyway, its fixed now, so I live with it..a bit like having two stomachs, really...like a cow?

 

Yup, I'm on the hype-tension game too....found when I had my first vocational licence medical at 45....vlasartan and felodipyne....I think....plus there are others for other things....fair ol' rattler, me.

 

But I don't smoke, rarely take alcohol, however, my diet is leery, but I do go through weird phases..like my body tells me I need to eat a lot of fruit suddenly.....or to leave off the french coffee for a week or so...