Model Railway Insurance

[chris p bacon]

I inquired of my householder insures about my collection some years ago. Their reply that collections are covered to a certain amount (£10,000 IIRC), as long as no individual item is over a certain amount (£1000 IIRC) in which case it would have to be specifically insured. It's time I checked again!  (The terms will obviously depend on the specific policy.)

 

An itemised list would be almost essential for making any claim. It's a good idea in any case (but might need hiding from SWMBO!)

Our household policy covers items up to a single value of £3000, we have a few items of furniture that fall into that so we have to identify them, the premium didn't increase but the insurer has a clearer idea of what they're insuring.

[Gwiwer]

A timely reminder to us all that it is worth checking the small print and asking questions.  Ask by email and your reply can be treated as a written response and evidence, if needs be, of what was said.

 

I cannot recommend any specific insurer but always keep my home and contents policy up to date and at the top end of what might be necessary.  Some of that comes from ten years insurance industry experience and having to explain to a few customers why their fire-ravaged homes, totally destroyed along with the contents in Australian bushfires, could not be entirely rebuilt by insurance.  Quite simply they were under-insured.

 

My policy does not specifically include any model railway items.  It does have a limit per claim for "Any collection" which is intended to limit the value of claims for jewellery, coin collections and other such significantly valuable items.  I maintain a database of purchases and have most receipts available.  However "new-for-old" is not always possible to define in cash value when an item is no longer available or was unique (or a limited edition) in the first place.  Insurers will typically make an offer and are open to a little negotiation especially in areas where they lack expertise which the customer may hold.  I have come across a claim for a collection of china tea-pots destroyed or damaged in an earthquake.  The insurer was unable to value them realistically so asked for proof of purchase and made an offer.  The settlement agreed was somewhat above the original offer.

 

In short it pays to keep account of what has been spent even if it's a few quid down at the timber yard.  If the lot were lost it all mounts up when it comes to claiming.  Wires, glues, paints - if you lose the lot you can claim for the lot and the better the records you have the greater your chance of obtaining a full and fair cash settlement.  And cash is what you'll almost always get for items which cannot be readily repalced.  Usually a direct bank transfer these days rather than a cheque. 

 

Keep the home as secure as you reasonably can.  Keep the collection out of sight and don't make a habit of advertising where you are via social media.  When you have friends round keep all your eyes open including those in the back of your head.  And keep records of what you own, where it came from and what you paid.  If the worst happens that it what you will need to prove a claim.

[chris p bacon]

 When you have friends round keep all your eyes open including those in the back of your head.

Excellent post.

 

If I had to do this though I doubt I'd call them friends.

[orford]

Yes - I am certainly going to be looking at our Home insurance policy. We have different insurers these days but a few years ago (actually a good few years ago now) we had different insurers who refused point blank to cover a G-Scale live steam locomotive which I owned at that time - I am no longer into live steam and no longer have it, but it serves to illustrate the point. It was valued at around £1,200 back then - I'm talking 20 years ago - and the insurers at the time simply refused to accept that any single 'toy' (as they insisted on calling it) could possibly be worth that much (it would probably be at least double that in today's terms if I still had it). Furthermore, they deemed it an 'unusual' fire risk and an 'explosion' risk. You could almost see them hopping nervously about when I tried to explain to them exactly what it was - as If I was keeping an WWII unexploded bomb in the lounge! Hmm. You ever heard of a 32mm gauge G-Scale locomotive exploding? I certainly haven't. About the same quantity of gas in it as can be found in a cheap cigarette lighter.

 

It rather put me off ever specifying model railway stuff in the house contents cover and since then I never have.

 

But I'm certainly going to look at it again now.

[chris p bacon]

Yes - I am certainly going to be looking at our Home insurance policy. We have different insurers these days but a few years ago (actually a good few years ago now) we had different insurers who refused point blank to cover a G-Scale live steam locomotive which I owned at that time - I am no longer into live steam and no longer have it, but it serves to illustrate the point. It was valued at around £1,200 back then - I'm talking 20 years ago - and the insurers at the time simply refused to accept that any single 'toy' (as they insisted on calling it) could possibly be worth that much (it would probably be at least double that in today's terms if I still had it). Furthermore, they deemed it an 'unusual' fire risk and an 'explosion' risk. You could almost see them hopping nervously about when I tried to explain to them exactly what it was - as If I was keeping an WWII unexploded bomb in the lounge! Hmm. You ever heard of a 32mm gauge G-Scale locomotive exploding? I certainly haven't. About the same quantity of gas in it as can be found in a cheap cigarette lighter.

 

It rather put me off ever specifying model railway stuff in the house contents cover and since then I never have.

 

But I'm certainly going to look at it again now.

I can certainly see why they wouldn't cover live steam as that is a completely different risk to "normal" household activities and it is a pressure vessel.

 

If I think of my contract insurance for work I pay approx £3-400 per year which covers things like theft of my digger and hired plant (£40,000) as well as theft and damage to any building under construction up to about £250,000. If I add any form of gas or flame equipment it hits a £1000 and so plumbers, roofers etc have to carry their own insurance as the possibility of fire is so much greater.  There is a £500 excess but you only have to think of how much materials and equipment we have stolen all the time.

[Gwiwer]

the insurers at the time simply refused to accept that any single 'toy' (as they insisted on calling it) could possibly be worth that much ..... Furthermore, they deemed it an 'unusual' fire risk and an 'explosion' risk. 

 

This illustrates perfectly the lack of understanding which most (arguably all) general insurers have when it comes to specific hobby items and not just model railways.  They simply don't know and they don't like what they don't know because they cannot price the risk.

 

What happens then is exactly described in the quoted post.  The insurer will mis-describe something and either refuse cover or price it way out of proportion to the risk involved.  There are specific model railway insurers and policies but most contents cover should be adequate for most model railways and the typical amount (I carefully chose that word and not "collection") of rolling stock owned.  Call it a collection and you may well find your cover limited as I described above due to there often being a fairly low ceiling on any claim for a "collection".

 

Insurers often don't know the nitty-gritty of what they are covering.  It might seem odd but unless you tell them how will they know?  You buy a home and / or contents policy and answer a few standard questions.  A few insurers might probe deeper or you may choose to answer more questions regarding your specific circumstances which may result in a lower premium being offered.  But until you tell them you own a model railway and seventy four scale locomotives they have no idea.  However if you need to claim, can prove ownership and loss then they will have a hard time denying you.

 

Just saying.

[Il Grifone]

It's probably worth photographing at least the more valuable items.

[chris p bacon]

It's probably worth photographing at least the more valuable items.

I'm actually putting together a spreadsheet with some pics of what I have as it's not the usual RTR. This has actually come from dealing with an estate where the widow had no idea what a workshop contained nor its value each model will have a ref number painted underneath to identify it.

[Il Grifone]

Mine are nearly all referenced with a self adhesive printed number*, which then refers back to my stock books which have a brief description (make, livery, drawing no. etc.). I haven't done the British locos yet as of course I know what they all are.... (Next on the list to do!) I have to catalogue which model is in which box....

 

* Originally as sold for photographic slides (no longer available?) but alternatives are available on eBay. They can easily be removed with white spirit or the liquid sold for the job.

[MiDAS]

I use and can recommend Magnet Insurance Services.

Telephone 01636 858249

www.magnetinsurance.co.uk

e.mail anthony.bound@magnetinsurance.co.uk

Hope this helps

Terry

I made this original post in 2010. Since that date I have had to make a claim from Magnet for an o gauge professionally built  B17 4-6-0 which was damaged by one of my operators dropping it.

There was no fuss or bother they agreed immediately to pay the cost of replacement or repair. They allowed me to choose my repairer (in this case the original builder). They even chased it up as they thought the repair was taking a while. On receipt of the repair invoice they sent a cheque by almost return. Premiums were not increased because of the claim and I have my loco back good as new. 

I can still whole heartily recommend Magnet. So if you don't think the risk is worth insuring then don't, however if you want the reassurance that your possessions are covered then there is a cost

[Tony Teague]

 

I can still whole heartily recommend Magnet. So if you don't think the risk is worth insuring then don't, however if you want the reassurance that your possessions are covered then there is a cost

I agree with your sentiment and can also recommend Magnet as a specialist insurer.

Tony

[orford]

For the avoidance of doubt, I never said that Magnet are not a competant or good specialist insurer - they are undoubtedly that.  I merely suggested that I felt their quoted renewal premium was totally out of all reasonable proportion to the value of the items covered, given my own circumstances, security levels, etc., and the actual degree of risk.  It just didn't make any sense.

 

Just wanted to clarify this point. I have absolutely no gripe at all with the actual service they provide.  Just think it is way too expensive.

[chris p bacon]

For the avoidance of doubt, I never said that Magnet are not a competant or good specialist insurer - they are undoubtedly that.  I merely suggested that I felt their quoted renewal premium was totally out of all reasonable proportion to the value of the items covered, given my own circumstances, security levels, etc., and the actual degree of risk.  It just didn't make any sense.

 

Just wanted to clarify this point. I have absolutely no gripe at all with the actual service they provide.  Just think it is way too expensive.

I'm interested in what your quoted premium was ?

[njee20]

Yes, that was going to be my question.

 

My only reference point is in insuring bikes. There are a number of specialist insurers who are utterly exorbitant, and offer few, if any advantages over a decent home contents policy. Many people think they're fully covered under their home policy, some people actually do research and ensure they're appropriately covered under their home insurance.

Probably exactly the same as here! It's a far more common topic on conversation on cycling forums though!

 

On a mildly related note, I asked M&S (underwritten by Axa) about their definition of a "collection", with this in mind, and they consider things like coin or stamp collections a collection, something where it's essentially a single item which will be stolen/damaged in its entirety. They didn't count model railways as a collection. Moot point, as they don't include any single item limits anymore IIRC, except on really high risk bits. They also got too expensive for the bikes though, so I moved.

[Gwiwer]

 I asked M&S (underwritten by Axa) about their definition of a "collection", with this in mind, and they consider things like coin or stamp collections a collection, something where it's essentially a single item which will be stolen/damaged in its entirety. They didn't count model railways as a collection.

 

Precisely the ground I hoped to cover in my earlier post.  "Collection" is a word with a special meaning in many insurance policies and is intended to refer to things like stamps, coins or other broadly similar items which might be kept together and be the subject of a total loss claim possibly of substantial value.

 

However anything in numbers can be a "Collection".  Dolls, motor vehicles, teapots, works of art, model railways .....  If one had, say, 50 locomotives in a display cabinet which was stolen lock, stock and barrel then I'm sure some insurers might argue that it was a "Collection".  Perversely perhaps if those same 50 locomotives were kept in a drawer and used one or two at a time on a layout but the whole lot were stolen then I don't think the "Collection" issue would be a runner.  You lost 50 locos.  Not a collection of locos.

 

As with many things when it comes to insurance make sure it works for you.  The insurer may not be terribly helpful and brokers can be notoriously shifty because both are in it for themselves.  While a broker should represent the client (as distinct from an agent who represents the insurer) they often let their clients do all the work and sell the policies they get the most commission from.  Which might or might not be the best for the customer.  

 

Keep records.  Keeping photos is a good idea too.  If your better photos (at least) are also in the public domain that can help both prove ownership and in tracing stolen items.  I haven't made a big thing about it but have usually photographed new items more or less as they arrive but in the context of the whole layout.  So a new loco will be noted as "newly-arrived" but usually matches the theme and the photo(s) is/are not flagged as being posted for insurance purposes.  I haven't photographed every single carriage and wagon as it arrived but would be pretty confident that I have photos of everything in use - usually as part of a train - at some point.

[ejstubbs]

had I banked it all instead over the years instead I could easily afford to replace any one of those things, the house included....and have a decent profit left over. So it wasn't actually that bad a suggestion which our friend made. What I am really saying here is yes - we NEED insurance but premiums generally are getting STUPID. And it's unsustainable for many people.

 

The only two things most people NEED to insure are motor vehicles (only third party cover is required by law - although fully comp can sometimes actually be cheaper) and physical buildings if they are mortgaged.  Everything else is optional and, as you say, you can self-insure if you think it a better deal than an insurance policy.  (I'm excluding things like professional liability insurance: if you think household insurance insurance is expensive, try getting a quote for that.  And you have to have it to practise in certain professions.)

 

My annual household insurance premium is ~0.1% of the rebuild cost of the property to insure both the physical building and a generous valuation of its contents.  That means I'd have to have stashed the same amount away ever year for roughly 1,000 years just to cover the rebuild cost, in the event that the house was seriously damaged in a fire.  Add in contents and you'd be looking at closer to 1,500 years.  That, to me, sounds like a good deal in exchange for someone taking on a risk over which they have very little control.  I also get third party liability cover included, which covers a risk which could run in to seven figures or more if the worst were to happen - vastly more than replacement of the house+contents.

 

If the numbers work out differently for you, or you don't like the Ts & Cs, then you're free to take your business elsewhere, or self-insure.  To repeatedly call it "scandalous" is rather silly.  At the end of the day it's a commercial offer: if you don't like it, walk away or get a quote from someone else.

 

(AFAIAA certain large companies do self insure some of their risks, particularly their vehicle fleets.  BT and the Post Office are examples that I have heard mentioned.)