Bus companies in South Devon?

[westerner]

Which bus company/s would have been operating in the South Hams area of South Devon, say between Torbay in the east and Kingsbridge in the West and Totnes in the North in the late 1950's and early 60's. Would Western national or Devon General have been dominant or did they share the routes?

[chrisf]

IWe are talking frontier territory.  Devon General ran services in the Torbay area and the route from Newton Abbot to Okehampton.  I have a DG timetable covering winter 1974-75 and it includes the Western National route 93 which ran in two sections from Plymouth to Kingsbridge and Kingsbridge to Dartmouth.  WN also ran some Paignton area local services and the route from Totnes to Kingsbridge.

 

Routes did get swapped between companies from time to time.  An early example was the ex-GWR service from Moretonhampstead to Chagford which was first entrusted to WN when railway-operated services were reorganised in 1929.  However, WN was operating out of its area and within a couple of years the route was transferred to DG with cost savings, smiley faces etc.

 

Chris

[westerner]

Cheers Chris.

[R A Watson]

Western National had depots in Totnes and Kingsbridge, Devon General in Newton and Torbay.

 

The rule of thumb would be green buses on the South Hams side of the Dart and red ones on the Torbay side. Don't forget that Tally Ho! Coaches of Kingsbridge also ran a fairly comprehensive local service in "your neck of the woods" at about this time.

 

Wally

[westerner]

Thank you chaps.

[HSB]

As a general rule Stagecoach now run the former DG routes while First run those of Western National.

[46444]

Don't forget Grey Cars either. Not sure where they originated from but they were based at Heathfield a few years ago.  I didn't realise that Grey Cars was attatched to Devon General until I looked at this link:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devon_General

 

As Wally says, Tally Ho worked out of Kingsbridge and Lee Mill now also.

 

Plymouth City Bus also covered some services aroung the Plymstock side of the South Hams too.

 

Cheers,

 

Mark

[cary hill]

My personal recollections from the early/mid sixties include red buses (Devon General) seen on the "Banjo" turning area above Kingswear station and, following a Dart crossing, green buses (Western National) near the Boat Float area in Dartmouth.

[Adrian Wintle]

And Grey Cars was the coach arm of Devon General,

 

 

From the Ian Allan History of Devon General (vintage 1966), Devon General operated the following services (a small selection from the list in the book):

 

11. Newton Abbot - Ashburton - Buckfastleigh

12. Newton Abbot - Torquay - Paignton - Brixham

12B. Brixham - Hill Head - Kingswear (joint with Burton Bus Service)

12C. Babbacombe - Torquay - Paignton - Kingswear (open top, summer only)

15. Newton Abbot - Ipplepen - Totnes

18. Paignton, Churston, Greenway

125. Sidmouth (Peak Hill) - Salcombe Regis (wrong area, see below)

128. Torquay - Paignton - Totnes - South Brent - Ivybridge - Plymouth (joint with Western National)

129. Exeter - Chudleigh - Ashburton - Buckfastleigh - Ivybridge -Plymouth (joint with Western National)

 

It ran routes to Exeter and Minehead, as well as Torbay local services and some Exeter area services.

 

There was a big bus depot beside Paignton station.

 

I recall seeing some green buses (WN) in Paignton in the '70s, but the majority were maroon (DG).

 

Adrian

[Gwiwer]

Devon General as others have said were dominant in the urban areas of Torquay, Paignton and Newton Abbot.  Exeter had its own Corporation buses at the time but DG ran numerous routes into the city from surrounding towns.  Western National was responsible for the largely rural runs through the South Hams (where DG buses never ventured) and had the territory west of the River Dart almost exclusively to themselves.  Plymouth also had its own Corporation city buses and (unlike Exeter) this operation survives today albeit now operated by Go Ahead Group.

 

The Exeter - Plymouth and Torquay - Plymouth routes were joint operations.  An oddity existed in that Totnes WN garage ran a group of high-frequency urban routes in Paignton firmly in DG territory.

 

Southern National seldom reached south Devon as its opertations related to the former SR of British Railways.  It did have occasional runs into Exeter and Plymouth but no deeper into "GWR territory".

 

In addition to the major operators there were (and still are) numerous independants offering market-day or other occasional trips over "thin" routes the others were not prepared to risk.  I would need access to a timetable for the year in qestion to confirm who those were as they changed relatively frequently.  Some have endured for many years on the same route(s) such as Tally Ho in Kingsbridge but were not necessarily running those routes 40 - 50 years ago.

[RJS1977]

I think there's room for a bit of flexibility though as I think some towns ran their own buses in addition or had other minor operators - particularly seaside resorts - if you're modelling a fictional location you can of course invent your own municipal operators/ define the DG/NW boundary as appropriate.

 

The Norman Wisdom film "Stop the Press" filmed in Teignmouth features a cream and brown open top bus, which I presume is either a municipal bus or a small operator (though of course it could have been brought in from further afield for filming).

 

(The film also features a demonstration of how not to open a train door from inside using the external handle! Occasionally I used to re-enact that on the 4VEPs on the way to/from work - just for fun!).

[46444]

Found these links too:

 

http://trainsferriesbuses.co.uk/wndg.htm

 

http://www.busmuseum.org.uk/potm/_potmold-psv.htm

 

May be useful.

 

Cheers,

 

Mark

[Adrian Wintle]

I think there's room for a bit of flexibility though as I think some towns ran their own buses in addition or had other minor operators - particularly seaside resorts - if you're modelling a fictional location you can of course invent your own municipal operators/ define the DG/NW boundary as appropriate.

 

The Norman Wisdom film "Stop the Press" filmed in Teignmouth features a cream and brown open top bus, which I presume is either a municipal bus or a small operator (though of course it could have been brought in from further afield for filming).

 

Some of the Devon General open top buses were in reversed scheme - overall cream with maroon trim. It could have been one of these.

 

Adrian

[Rivercider]

Just for interest here is the Devon General timetable for spring, summer and autumn 1965, these are the front and back pages. 

The routes for your area of interest are the same as Adrian listed earlier, (although route 125 to Salcombe Regis is in East Devon),

 

 

 

cheers

[Oldddudders]

There was a big bus depot beside Paignton station.

And there still is. What's more it's very busy - and only two minutes walk from a decent-enough model shop!

[Gwiwer]

125 Sidmouth - Salcombe Regis was indeed worked from Sidmouth depot in east Devon and was about as far east as Devon General buses got.  They ran the 4 from Exeter to Axminster and quite a fair network based on the Sidmouth - Exmouth - Exeter corridor but there was then a hiatus - a no-man's-land - until Seaton was reached which was firmly in Southern National hands with a depot there.  The only route west from Seaton was in independent hands until very recently.  Latterly worked by Sewards Coaches (based in Dalwood near Axminster) they ran a single trip four days a week from Seaton to Exeter until 2000.  First now cover that route as part of their lengthy X53 Exeter - Poole service every two hours six days a week.

[Adrian Wintle]

The routes for your area of interest are the same as Adrian listed earlier, (although route 125 to Salcombe Regis is in East Devon),

 

After I posted I realized that Salcombe Regis is nowhere near Salcombe...

 

Adrian

[westerner]

You have all been extremely helpful. Many Thanks.

[Ceptic]

I think there's room for a bit of flexibility though as I think some towns ran their own buses in addition or had other minor operators - particularly seaside resorts - if you're modelling a fictional location you can of course invent your own municipal operators/ define the DG/NW boundary as appropriate.

 

The Norman Wisdom film "Stop the Press" filmed in Teignmouth features a cream and brown open top bus, which I presume is either a municipal bus or a small operator (though of course it could have been brought in from further afield for filming).

 

(The film also features a demonstration of how not to open a train door from inside using the external handle! Occasionally I used to re-enact that on the 4VEPs on the way to/from work - just for fun!).

 

The open-topper in the film (Press for Time) was one of the 6 converted, ex-Bournemouth Corporation Transport 1938/9 Leyland Titan TD5, No.14, FEL 214. http://www.flickr.com/photos/megaanorak/3999423804/

The livery being Primrose Yellow with Maroon bands

.

If you look closely, in the film, you can make out

'Fishermans Walk

Stourvale Road  

Tuckton Bridge' 

on route 22. to Christchurch.

 

 

Regards.

[Adrian Wintle]

It also appears to be labelled Teignmouth Bus Company on the side.

 

Adrian

[Ceptic]

It also appears to be labelled Teignmouth Bus Company on the side.

 

Adrian

 

'Tinmouth Bus Company'  . ...A fictional play on 'Teignmouth'....pronounced 'Tinmouth'

 

Cheers..

[Mallard60022]

Don't forget Royal Blue (coaches) that did long distance stuff (e.g. Exeter to London  took hours and hours usually).

There was a big and well known coach company local to Exeter and for the life of me I can't remember the name but I'm sure I've seen a 4mm version. I'll remember in the middle of the night so will post later unless beaten to it by another.  

P 

[Adrian Wintle]

'Tinmouth Bus Company'  . ...A fictional play on 'Teignmouth'....pronounced 'Tinmouth'

 

Cheers..

 

Thanks, I wasn't sure since I could never stop it with a clear view of the first word.

 

Adrian

[Rivercider]

Don't forget Royal Blue (coaches) that did long distance stuff (e.g. Exeter to London  took hours and hours usually).

There was a big and well known coach company local to Exeter and for the life of me I can't remember the name but I'm sure I've seen a 4mm version. I'll remember in the middle of the night so will post later unless beaten to it by another.

P 

Are you possibly thinking of Greenslades? (There is an EFE Harrington Cavalier EFE 12114 on tour to Paignton)

 

cheers

[Mallard60022]

Thanks. That's the one.

P