SECR Birdcage Coaches

[Dunsignalling]

Didn't the SR 'export' some ex-Brighton coaching stock to the Isle of White. Not sure if this was converted in any way from original but would increase their appeal with a longer in service range and therefore more attractive to manufacturers.

Pretty much everything that went to the Island was "converted", often quite heavily - changing the number of compartments was a favourite game! 

 

"Uniformity" and "standardisation" are not words whose meanings were widely understood or acknowledged within the IoW Carriage and Wagon Department.

 

I'd think that attempting to represent any of the IoW coaching stock fleet would be an absolute nightmare for any r-t-r manufacturer.

 

John

Edited November 1, 2017 by Dunsignalling

[Wickham Green]

Pretty much everything that went to the Island was "converted", often quite heavily - changing the number of compartments was a favourite game! 

 

"Uniformity" and "standardisation" are not words whose meanings were widely understood or acknowledged within the IoW Carriage and Wagon Department.

 

I'd think that attempting to represent any of the IoW coaching stock fleet would be an absolute nightmare for any r-t-r manufacturer.

 

John

Indeed ........ though to be fair the Brighton coaches were less subject to major rebuild than the Chatham stock.

 

( The tradition contiues to this day, of course ........ what do you do if the chassis you have to hand is longer than the grounded body you want to mount on it ? : stick in an extra door - disguised as a droplight panel - and stretch the end compartment for wheelchair users .... obvious innit !!?! )

[The Bigbee Line]

I decided to Bite the Bullet and use some AK interactive washes on the 3-set.

 

 

Here it is 'before'

 

 

and here after, one side was done with the dark brown wash and the other with a dust wash.

 

 

The roof was done with dark brown

 

 

The ends with the dust.  Any sections that are too thick can be improved with thinners on a cotton bud.  I think it takes the edge of the harshness of the new paint.  Need to see how it looks when dry

 

 

 

[phil gollin]

.

 

These may be of interest ;

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BR-Railway-Larger-Negative-Ex-SR-Brake-Composite-S6628S-1950s-grainy-neg/162737564741?hash=item25e3ea2c45:g:vVkAAOSwdjdZ~elw

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BR-Railway-Larger-Negative-Ex-SR-Coaches-S3279S-and-S1081S-Unknown-Locn-1950s/162737562344?hash=item25e3ea22e8:g:waUAAOSwFb5Z~epE

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BR-Railway-Larger-Negative-Ex-SR-Coaches-Unknown-Location-1950s/162737553571?hash=item25e3ea00a3:g:se8AAOSw4PxZ~ere

 

Usual disclaimer - no connection.

 

Edited to add ;

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Larger-Negative-BR-British-Railways-Steam-Loco-31739-1952-London-Road-Class-D-1/372123277752?hash=item56a44699b8:g:ZOwAAOSwZB9Z-dbx

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Larger-Negative-BR-British-Railways-Steam-Loco-31785-1956-Newmarket-Class-L-1/272910686119?hash=item3f8abe97a7:g:i8IAAOSwkLhZ-dZJ

 

 

 

.

Edited November 5, 2017 by phil gollin

[The Bigbee Line]

.

 

These may be of interest ;

........

Edited to add ;

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Larger-Negative-BR-British-Railways-Steam-Loco-31739-1952-London-Road-Class-D-1/372123277752?hash=item56a44699b8:g:ZOwAAOSwZB9Z-dbx

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Larger-Negative-BR-British-Railways-Steam-Loco-31785-1956-Newmarket-Class-L-1/272910686119?hash=item3f8abe97a7:g:i8IAAOSwkLhZ-dZJ

 

.

Thanks for the links.  Ebay is often a great source for pictures etc  Not birdcage related http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Larger-Negative-BR-British-Railways-Steam-Loco-32338-1954-Cliftonville-Class-K/372123276321?hash=item56a4469421:g:VrsAAOSwNchZ-dZU the shot of a K class shows that the coal rail backing sheet misses a section at the rear.  Never realised that.

 

Back on topic, the corridor birdcage coach has always attracted me.

 

Thanks

[Oldddudders]

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Larger-Negative-BR-British-Railways-Steam-Loco-31785-1956-Newmarket-Class-L-1/272910686119?hash=item3f8abe97a7:g:i8IAAOSwkLhZ-dZJ

 

 

Intriguing caption! Third rail in Cambridgeshire is rare indeed. But there is a Newmarket Arch, adjoining a hostelry of that name, between Falmer and Lewes. 

[The Bigbee Line]

Intriguing caption! Third rail in Cambridgeshire is rare indeed. But there is a Newmarket Arch, adjoining a hostelry of that name, between Falmer and Lewes. 

Well spotted, when you know the location the possible confusion is overlooked.  Newmarket, between Falmer and Lewes.  Not much of a village, just a few houses and a pub, or it was last time I looked...

[The Bigbee Line]

I'm conscious that this thread is morphing into other subjects, but maybe not a bad thing.

 

On Ebay is a picture if a three coach train at the Dyke..  http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Dyke-Railway-Station-Photo-Brighton-Line-London-Brighton-South-Coast-11/251974513704?hash=item3aaad9f428:g:sRgAAOSwKrhVZcRY

 

What are the front two coaches?  LSWR or SECR, I can look it up, but I expect someone else has already looked.  The one on the back is an LBSC Ballon..

 

Of interest is the huge hay rick you can see behind the signalbox...

 

Another elliptical roofed coach from the platform side...http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Dyke-Railway-Station-Photo-Brighton-Line-London-Brighton-South-Coast-2/262693656088?hash=item3d29c31618:g:o8sAAOSwHsRYEgoq

Edited November 6, 2017 by The Bigbee Line

[Limpley Stoker]

I am contemplating modifying a brake 3rd to make a driving trailer for pull push set 714 . Has anybody any advice ?

[GreenGiraffe22]

Love those photos of the Dyke! My local history project for my History GCSE... Gosh 10 years ago now, was all about the Dyke railway and Victorian theme park up the top =)

[Wickham Green]

I'm conscious that this thread is morphing into other subjects, but maybe not a bad thing.

 

On Ebay is a picture if a three coach train at the Dyke..  http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Dyke-Railway-Station-Photo-Brighton-Line-London-Brighton-South-Coast-11/251974513704?hash=item3aaad9f428:g:sRgAAOSwKrhVZcRY

 

What are the front two coaches?  LSWR or SECR, I can look it up, but I expect someone else has already looked.  The one on the back is an LBSC Ballon..

 

Of interest is the huge hay rick you can see behind the signalbox...

 

Another elliptical roofed coach from the platform side...http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Dyke-Railway-Station-Photo-Brighton-Line-London-Brighton-South-Coast-2/262693656088?hash=item3d29c31618:g:o8sAAOSwHsRYEgoq

LSWR or SECR ? ...... I think the answer's "YES" : SECR closest and LSWR in the middle. They're the same coaches in both photos but is it the same loco ? - the train arriving is headed by an E5 but the departure looks to me to have one of the "X" rebuilds with a larger boiler - probably E5X ? - or is that an optical illusion of some sort ??!?

[The Bigbee Line]

LSWR or SECR ? ...... I think the answer's "YES" : SECR closest and LSWR in the middle. They're the same coaches in both photos but is it the same loco ? - the train arriving is headed by an E5 but the departure looks to me to have one of the "X" rebuilds with a larger boiler - probably E5X ? - or is that an optical illusion of some sort ??!?

I think the coaches are different, the view from the platform side shows a 2comp+toilet+2comp+toilet+2comp, the view towards the platform shows 1comp+toilet+2comp+toilet+3comp.  A quick look through my OPC LSWR book shows no matches....

[Wickham Green]

I think the coaches are different, the view from the platform side shows a 2comp+toilet+2comp+toilet+2comp, the view towards the platform shows 1comp+toilet+2comp+toilet+3comp.  A quick look through my OPC LSWR book shows no matches....

Sorry - you're right about the nearest coach, at least, being different ........ but you should be looking in one of the SECR books I'm afraid ! ( Gould or Coutanche )

[Tim Dubya]

Isn't the odd one out an LSWR Ironclad?

 

(an obsession if mine to be available in RTR but no actual knowledge of the prototype)

Edited November 6, 2017 by Tim Dubya

[Wickham Green]

Isn't the odd one out an LSWR Ironclad?

 

(an obsession if mine to be available in RTR but no actual knowledge of the prototype)

I doubt if any Ironclads ever got up to The Dyke ...... no this is the Brighton's closest equivalent : higher and maybe wider so out of gauge for Eastern / Western sections and consequently relatively short-lived ( all gone well before the war ). Though many were built as main line stock this one is a purpose-built pull-push driving trailer - obviously in use as an 'ordinary' passenger brake in this instance.

[Brake Compo]

I doubt if any Ironclads ever got up to The Dyke ...... no this is the Brighton's closest equivalent : higher and maybe wider so out of gauge for Eastern / Western sections and consequently relatively short-lived ( all gone well before the war ). Though many were built as main line stock this one is a purpose-built pull-push driving trailer - obviously in use as an 'ordinary' passenger brake in this instance.

It is an ex-LBSC Balloon push-pull trailer surely - these were commonly used on the Dyke Branch

[The Bigbee Line]

Back to the original topic, birdcage coaches...

 

Is there a supplier of these buffers, ideally with a metal sprung head?  I would line to fit some and during 'tight curve' operation, have the inner buffers in the 'retracted' position.  I know they didn't retract in reality, but it will allow me to close up the space between coaches.

 

 

 

Metal heads on their own would be OK.  If Hornby did the heads for their Van B it would do.

 

Thanks

 

 

[Wickham Green]

It is an ex-LBSC Balloon push-pull trailer surely - these were commonly used on the Dyke Branch

Indeed ....... this "this one is a purpose-built ( ex-LBSC Balloon ) pull-push driving trailer" .............. as commonly used on the Dyke Branch.

[Wickham Green]

Back to the original topic, birdcage coaches...

 

Is there a supplier of these buffers, ideally with a metal sprung head?  I would line to fit some and during 'tight curve' operation, have the inner buffers in the 'retracted' position.  I know they didn't retract in reality, but it will allow me to close up the space between coaches.

 

buffer IMG_6366.jpg

 

buffer IMG_6371.jpg

 

Metal heads on their own would be OK.  If Hornby did the heads for their Van B it would do.

 

Thanks

Markits do a suitable sprung buffer ........ I was going to point out that they ain't cheap - but neither are the coaches !

Edited November 8, 2017 by Wickham Green

[The Bigbee Line]

Markits do a suitable sprung buffer ........ I was going to point out that they ain't cheap - but neither are the coaches !

I've just ordered 12 from Markits.  The chap was most helpful.

[Jack P]

I've just ordered 12 from Markits.  The chap was most helpful.

 

Would be really interested to know how easily they fit in. I'm assuming they are the "Coach (SECR Clipped OVAL) Sprung Buffer (Pkt 4) "?

 

On another note, has anyone taken theirs apart yet, or can see how easy it might be to remove the glazing? I currently have a set of the olive green ones on pre-order but I was thinking of repainting them Malachite anyways, seems like a shame to paint over (and pay extra for) the extensive lining out. If it's a relatively simple process I may just get some of the BR liveried ones instead. 

 

If anyone has any pictures of how the glazing attaches and how it might come out, or if anyone has done that I would love to see!

Edited November 9, 2017 by Jack P

[Wickham Green]

Would be really interested to know how easily they fit in. I'm assuming they are the "Coach (SECR Clipped OVAL) Sprung Buffer (Pkt 4) "?

 

On another note, has anyone taken theirs apart yet, or can see how easy it might be to remove the glazing? I currently have a set of the olive green ones on pre-order but I was thinking of repainting them Malachite anyways, seems like a shame to paint over (and pay extra for) the extensive lining out. If it's a relatively simple process I may just get some of the BR liveried ones instead. 

 

If anyone has any pictures of how the glazing attaches and how it might come out, or if anyone has done that I would love to see!

If ....... and its a huge IF ......... it's anything like Hornby's 58' Maunsell / LSWR rebuilds - they'll be produced in malachite the moment you've repainted yours ! ( On the other hand, if you don't repaint yours we'll all be kept waiting ..... carry on ....... )

[Jack P]

If ....... and its a huge IF ......... it's anything like Hornby's 58' Maunsell / LSWR rebuilds - they'll be produced in malachite the moment you've repainted yours ! ( On the other hand, if you don't repaint yours we'll all be kept waiting ..... carry on ....... )

 

 

ah you see I was thinking of buying the olive green ones just to cover myself! That way I have both if they do, and a set to repaint if they don't! Of course I understand that it all comes down to me now..  

[trevor7598]

Would be really interested to know how easily they fit in. I'm assuming they are the "Coach (SECR Clipped OVAL) Sprung Buffer (Pkt 4) "?

 

On another note, has anyone taken theirs apart yet, or can see how easy it might be to remove the glazing? I currently have a set of the olive green ones on pre-order but I was thinking of repainting them Malachite anyways, seems like a shame to paint over (and pay extra for) the extensive lining out. If it's a relatively simple process I may just get some of the BR liveried ones instead. 

 

If anyone has any pictures of how the glazing attaches and how it might come out, or if anyone has done that I would love to see!

 

Before you go ahead with your proposed repaint, be aware that the droplights are part of the glazing,

not the body moulding. So these will have to be repainted separately, a very tedious,  skilful task, I imagine.

[Jack P]

Before you go ahead with your proposed repaint, be aware that the droplights are part of the glazing,

not the body moulding. So these will have to be repainted separately, a very tedious,  skilful task, I imagine.

 

Are they raised or printed onto the glass? one is possible, the other is.. less.