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SECR Birdcage Coaches


Bill
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  • RMweb Gold

...and in Alton Model Centre, will have to wait until Friday to collect mine. Having viewed them a few times in the Bachmann display cabinet and seen the photographs in the mags I do not think I shall be disappointed. Very pleased that Bachmann are spreading their arrival over three months! 

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Right from the start I always wanted to model an alternative version of Guildford station complete with its great variance of railway routes - So Birdcage coaches are a must as they were used on the Horsham line. Preferably in green,  but if all that's going is carmine or whatever shade of red it is meant to be - then so be it. I hope they do BR(S) green later.. It would fit better. So I am glad they are now here - Hours of fun await.. Meanwhile since the project was announced to reproduce these coaches, it now seems years ago, I have moved and no longer have the space to create the layout these coaches need.. Now these coaches may well not have been the specific type that saw service on that line. But they look more like the right coaches than say a Maunsell whatever.. So they'll do the job for me! Can I now die happy?.. Not quite, there are still a few small things missing. For example those essential EMUs, you know the Bulleid 4 coach suburbans for the Leatherhead line  and the 4COR Nelson's? Is anyone out there listening?

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Right from the start I always wanted to model an alternative version of Guildford station complete with its great variance of railway routes - So Birdcage coaches are a must as they were used on the Horsham line. Preferably in green,  but if all that's going is carmine or whatever shade of red it is meant to be - then so be it. I hope they do BR(S) green later.. It would fit better. So I am glad they are now here - Hours of fun await.. Meanwhile since the project was announced to reproduce these coaches, it now seems years ago, I have moved and no longer have the space to create the layout these coaches need.. Now these coaches may well not have been the specific type that saw service on that line. But they look more like the right coaches than say a Maunsell whatever.. So they'll do the job for me! Can I now die happy?.. Not quite, there are still a few small things missing. For example those essential EMUs, you know the Bulleid 4 coach suburbans for the Leatherhead line  and the 4COR Nelson's? Is anyone out there listening?

 

The Birdcage sets of the type Bachmann are producing are absolutely correct for the Guildford area of the 1950's.

At this time they were the staple diet on the Reading-Redhill line.

On the Guildford-Horsham branch there was one regular, evening service, which used a borrowed Birdcage set,

and terminated at Cranleigh. Motive power for this train could be an M7, 700, Q1, or E4, anything suitable that

Guildford shed could muster.

Edited by trevor7598
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Right from the start I always wanted to model an alternative version of Guildford station complete with its great variance of railway routes - So Birdcage coaches are a must as they were used on the Horsham line. Preferably in green,  but if all that's going is carmine or whatever shade of red it is meant to be - then so be it. I hope they do BR(S) green later.. It would fit better. So I am glad they are now here - Hours of fun await.. Meanwhile since the project was announced to reproduce these coaches, it now seems years ago, I have moved and no longer have the space to create the layout these coaches need.. Now these coaches may well not have been the specific type that saw service on that line. But they look more like the right coaches than say a Maunsell whatever.. So they'll do the job for me! Can I now die happy?.. Not quite, there are still a few small things missing. For example those essential EMUs, you know the Bulleid 4 coach suburbans for the Leatherhead line  and the 4COR Nelson's? Is anyone out there listening?

 

The BR(S) green was only applied to stock after 1956, and even then, was unlikely to have been applied to too many of the birdcage coaches as they neared the ends of their lives. For the 1948 - 56 (and beyond) period, the Southern Railway green would have survived with revarnishing until they were repainted into the BR crimson ... if the individual coaches ever were (some might have survived to the very end in ex-SR green). 

 

If you can get the pre-1948 green (malachite) you could debrand them, but at this stage Bachmann are only offering the earlier Maunsell green, which would not have survived into the BR era, or if they did, they would have been painted crimson very quickly.

 

Of course, all this may not be relevant if you are doing an alternative history for your Guildford. You could even paint the coaches in BR blue if you so desired! :)

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Well I kept my pre order as I they are really key to my area and would have probably regretted it.

Nice coaches weighing in around 140g a coach. Run nicely with no wheel wobble but not the most free running of coaches. Put together nicely just a bit of excess glue around the the birdcage glints in the light.

Big question for me is are they worth pennies shy of £15 more a coach over the equivalent Hornby Ex LSWR rebuilds, that has to be a big no they are equal in quality except for those who like the gimmicks the Hornby has sprung metal buffers the birdcages moulded solid plastic.

 

Some pictures

Img_4340.jpg

 

Img_4339.jpg

 

Img_4338.jpg

 

Colour comparison with the Hornby rebuilds.

Overcast light.

Img_4344.jpg

 

Bright sunlight.

Img_4343.jpg

 

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I'm not remotely knowledgeable about BR colours but to my untrained eye they look *almost* a perfect match to Hornby's with the latter being only slightly lighter?  I really hope they're not going to have the same derailing issues as Hornby's had. One of my ex LSWR carriages still jumps points on occasion, I may well retire them and sell them on when the birdcages arrive. My E4s & Cs are ready and waiting. 

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  • RMweb Gold

 

 

One minor point (and I may well be wrong) but shouldn't the Set numerals be in BR Gill Sans style, rather than SR style as produced.

 

 

 

Looking at several set numbers in BR days in Michael Welch's Southern Coaches In Colour, the 9 is a very different shape, and the numerals are less bold. I will not let it deter me, though. 

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Graham,

 

You mention that the buffers are separate mouldings.  Have you tried removing them?  Just thinking of fitting shorter ones within the set.  That would enable closer coupling, and the would have been close coupled in reality.  I wonder how often they were actually uncoupled.  I bet the couplings got seized up through lack of use..

 

Thanks

 

Ernie

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post-17621-0-34973700-1506016735_thumb.jpg

 

The British Railways crimson birdcage coaches have arrived at the Swanage Railway shop. All the model railway items there seem to be Bachmann now.

 

When I ordered the SECR coaches from Hattons in 2014 the price of £55.21 each seemed expensive but now it pales into insignificance compared with Rails' Dynamometer car. If they run freely and do not derail it will be worth paying more for the birdcage coaches than the Hornby LSWR coaches.

 

I already have a C class in SECR livery to haul the set and my virtual fleet of SECR locomotives will include an H class and a P class. I hope that these do not take as long to arrive as the birdcage coaches.

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  • RMweb Gold

Graham,

 

You mention that the buffers are separate mouldings.  Have you tried removing them?  Just thinking of fitting shorter ones within the set.  That would enable closer coupling, and the would have been close coupled in reality.  I wonder how often they were actually uncoupled.  I bet the couplings got seized up through lack of use..

 

Thanks

 

Ernie

If you fit Roco couplers into the linkages provided, your buffers should touch on straight track and the coaches will space-out as necessary on curves.

 

John

Edited by Dunsignalling
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  • RMweb Gold

Graham,

 

You mention that the buffers are separate mouldings.  Have you tried removing them?  Just thinking of fitting shorter ones within the set.  That would enable closer coupling, and the would have been close coupled in reality.  I wonder how often they were actually uncoupled.  I bet the couplings got seized up through lack of use..

 

Thanks

 

Ernie

 

I've been away from home so will have a look to see how easily they come out tonight but the buffers are the correct long shanked pattern for the coaches, closer coupling on the prototype would be the effect of the shank being compressed.

 

If you fit Roco couplers into the linkages provided, your buffers should touch on straight track and the coaches will space-out as necessary on curves.

 

John

 

I agree, also in my review I stated that I have fitted Kadee No. 18's to mine to reduce the gap and still enable reliable running.

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post-17621-0-95042400-1506098688_thumb.jpg

 

Thank you for the information about couplings. On pages 104 and 105 of the October Model Rail Chris Leigh has rated the BR crimson birdcage coaches 94%. I have been reading his reviews since the Model Railway Constructor days. He is not easily satisfied and he is not impressed with the T3's new home near me on the Swanage Railway either.

 

The only criticism he made of the coaches was the shade of crimson which he thought was too dark. The shade is darker than Precision Paint's B.R. coach red and is darker than an LSWR push-pull set in a picture taken on Friday 9 September 1960. It is also much lighter than British Railways' maroon livery applied after 1955.

 

He says that Bachmann's shade is closer to that used on Hornby's LSWR stock. Perhaps the two model firms have used the correct shade of red but it appears darker on a model than it does on the prototype as the prototype reflects more sunlight. I expect the LSWR coaches may have faded by 1960.

 

I travelled to New Romney in some pre-nationalisation coaches in 1955 but I cannot remember whether they were green or red. I can remember the leather straps to open the windows and the telegraph wires seeming to go up and down beside the track.

 

Another suitable locomotive for the B.R. crimson coaches is the Wrenn R1. Wrenn did make some with the cycling lion emblem.

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  • RMweb Gold

The problem with correct colour representation is that any pictures of birdcage coaches are at least 55-60 years old.  How good was the quality of the colour film used at the time?  Were the coaches photographed in bright sunlit conditions, or overcast, and were they clean or a bit shabby? How well has the film aged? And any photos viewed online today have been scanned and then displayed on a monitor, both of which can affect the colour representation. Also the eyes of those that saw these coaches in real life (mine included) are quite elderly too! So making judgement on the colour of the models is a bit of a minefield really. 

 

I am very pleased that Bachmann have produced these and they are excellent models.   

Edited by RFS
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  • RMweb Gold

Got my set of 3 today but had a couple of problems. Firstly one of the NEM pockets was too tight and I couldn't get the Roco coupling in. Also couldn't get the tension lock back in either.  A little bit of filing to clear a small tag resolved that.

 

Then I found one of the brake coaches frequently derailing.  Turned out that one of its bogies was a bit tight and was restricting movement.  The brake shoes are all attached to a small slab of plastic which clips into the underside of the bogie. On mine this was at a strange angle.  Fortunately it was a fairly easy fix to unclip, and refix properly.  Now all OK.

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