Small, Broad and Totally Pointless!

[Edwardian]

Coming together John.

 

Presumptuous to suggest it, but the new base for the water tank would look far better in Scalescenes stone sheet; I assume that is your intention, but, if not, I apologise for an unwelcome suggestion.

[BG John]

Coming together John.

 

Presumptuous to suggest it, but the new base for the water tank would look far better in Scalescenes stone sheet; I assume that is your intention, but, if not, I apologise for an unwelcome suggestion.

That's the plan. I've got assorted bits of Wills water tank kits left over, so I'll add the plastic base to the collection for future use, and make a new card with Scalescenes stone one. I've printed an extra station building window to put in it, and will assume the door and ladder are at the fiddle yard end.

[Ian Smith]

John,

 

I've just finished re-reading your thread.  Last time I looked at it must have been at least 2 years ago, I hadn't realised that you were progressing this lovely little layout!  I've therefore added it to my "Follow" list. :-)

 

By the way, I like the new look to the layout, but somewhat disappointed that you haven't got room for a mixed gauge 4-way turnout :-)

 

Ian 

[BG John]

John,

 

I've just finished re-reading your thread.  Last time I looked at it must have been at least 2 years ago, I hadn't realised that you were progressing this lovely little layout!  I've therefore added it to my "Follow" list. :-)

 

By the way, I like the new look to the layout, but somewhat disappointed that you haven't got room for a mixed gauge 4-way turnout :-)

 

Ian 

Progress is a rather dramatic term. Plodding along is more like it! If I had any turnouts it would no longer be pointless, but a 3 track fiddle yard into 5 scenic tracks is quite confusing enough!

[BG John]

I've finally made a modest start on track laying. The first bit to do is the straight track in the fiddle yard, as this needs to line up with the existing track. I'm re-using the track from the old sector plate, shortened slightly to fit. The first step was to mark the position for it so it lines up properly, which is what the masking tape is for. I've superglued three sleepers, circled in red, to the Tufnol, and I'll probably solder the track to these first, then superglue the rest of the sleepers once I'm happy it works. The wide centre sleeper runs along the join in the two pieces of Tufnol I've used, to strengthen the join. I put some paper underneath before sticking it down, so the sector plate isn't stuck to the baseboard, although it would be if I hadn't!

 

The rails at the left end are on the aluminium framing, and the plan is to add some insulation, probably 5 thou plasticard, before fixing the track down.

 

 

I'll then do the track laying on the scenic section, lining them all up to the centre track on the sector plate. Then I'll make the two outer fiddle yard tracks and line them up to all the tracks.

 

Progress may be slow, as I want to start track laying on my EM layout too, and do a bit more on the OO layout. I have almost nothing to run on SB&TP, but I have plenty of stock for the other two, so they ought to take priority.

[BG John]

Just a little bit of progress tonight. I've stuck two pieces of 5 thou plasticard to the aluminium angle to insulate the centre fiddle yard track. I'll probably solder the track in place tomorrow, as I've just been using the 80 watt iron, and I'll use the 25 watt one for this, but don't want two hot irons around at the same time. Otherwise I'm bound to burn myself, or something else! I've also superglued the washer on the pivot in place.

 

 

I've stuck down the quay siding, and soldered the rail to the existing baulks. That's what I used the 80 watt iron for. If you can remember back to when I built the first track, I sweated it to the baulks using the 80 watt iron. It's very small rail, but needs a fair bit of heat to do that. As this siding will be hidden under paving, the rail is soldered to widely spaced cross sleepers, so rather than covering the cork with PVA, as I'd normally do with cross sleepered track, I've run a bit of tacky glue along each sleeper, as the fine nozzle on the tube is easier to control that a big tube of standard PVA.

 

[Northroader]

If I had a hammer, I'd swing it in the mornin', looking good!

[BG John]

If I had a hammer, I'd swing it in the mornin'

You'd better not. It's taken 9 years to get this far!

 

looking good!

It looks better now the glue is dry, and the hammers are safely on the floor!

[BG John]

Just a small amount of progress today. I've soldered the centre fiddle yard track to the three sleepers I stuck down last night. It will be easy to adjust if I need to, and I'll stick more sleepers down once I'm certain it's OK.

 

 

A bit more vandalism to the poor old original layout! I'd had to pack the track to raise it to the level of the old sector plate, as it was quite thick, so now the packing needed to go. I've cut out a short section of the tracks, and stuck down a new piece of cork underlay. Once it's dry, I'll stick down new baulks, and solder new lengths of rail to them that will line up with the track in the fiddle yard. Only one hammer on the layout tonight!

 

 

This is the quay siding after the hammers were removed:

 

[shortliner]

I've stuck down the quay siding, and soldered the rail to the existing baulks. That's what I used the 80 watt iron for. If you can remember back to when I built the first track, I sweated it to the baulks using the 80 watt iron. It's very small rail, but needs a fair bit of heat to do that. As this siding will be hidden under paving, the rail is soldered to widely spaced cross sleepers, so rather than covering the cork with PVA, as I'd normally do with cross sleepered track, I've run a bit of tacky glue along each sleeper, as the fine nozzle on the tube is easier to control that a big tube of standard PVA.

 

DSCF7979.JPG

You've been in my shed!

[BG John]

You've been in my shed!

Shed? I don't do sheds. The railway room is in the house, and even my workshop is currently in another part of the house, where I have lots of tools inherited from my Dad.

[shortliner]

Don't know where I inherited mine from - but I seem to have very similar ones!

[BG John]

Despite the lack of updates, things have been happening. I've laid the new baulks between the platform road and the fiddle yard, but really need some rolling stock to test the track, so I've stopped for now. I've laid most of the track for my EM layout, which uses the same design of fiddle yard, and stock runs over the join nicely, so I'm happy with the design. As SB&TP is to P4 standards, accuracy is even more important though.

 

Now what relevance could this have to a P4 broad gauge layout?

 

Well the chassis fell off, and landed in my box of bits for building O-16.5 wagons, and the body split in two!

 

Then it got joined back together, but rather wider than it used to be

 

Today it got some wheels under one end, and the pivoting end is ready to be soldered up

 

It's well on its way to becoming a freelance private owner coal wagon. There are almost no photos of broad gauge PO wagons, so no one knows what most of them looked like. I wanted something fairly quick that I could get some practice building, and had bought this wagon to use the chassis for an O-16.5 wagon, so the body was spare. The underframe is Ratio's 9ft wheelbase kit, that I've actually just bought brand new! There are two in the pack, so I've got another one for a future project. Buffer beams came out of my spares box. They may be Slaters, as I built a couple of their MR wagons with dumb buffers many years ago. W-irons are ancient EM Gauge Society ones, and wheels are Gibsons, bought at Pendon Museum for 75p, which shows their age! The fixed W-Irons are cut in two and superglued in place. The rocking end one has also been cut in two, and I'll be soldering some extension pieces in the middle.

 

It's actually quite a slow job, as I'm learning lots of useful stuff for the conversions I have ahead, involving various Coopercraft, Slaters and ABS kits, plus some Ratio and Tri-ang coaches. I've decided to set the layout in about 1890, almost at the end of the broad gauge, when a lots of modern "narrow gauge" designs were built as broad gauge convertibles.

 

I've also started on this. It's a one off brake van built as a convertible, with a narrow body on a wide underframe. The Airfix RTR van is too long, and would need to be shortened in 5 places, and the metal sheeting on the bottom of the sides and ends replaced by planking. Looking round for an alternative, I discovered the old Tri-ang one, and found one on eBay. I knew it was too long and too high, but until it arrived I didn't know it was also too wide and the ends are wrong!  So I'm just using the cut down sides with the Airfix ends and roof. The Tri-ang underframe is now also in the O-16.5 box, along with the roof and other potentially useful bits. The Airfix underframe needs shortening, widening, and compensation. I had a complete Airfix one plus a body already, and due to a few cutting errors with my first attempt, have had to cut up both of them! There are probably easier ways to do it, but it's good practice, and that's what really matters.

 

 

[Northroader]

Interested to see your bg wagons, I've tried similar in O. I fancy coal wagons wouldn't be 5plankers, just from the point of view that the extra width would give the same capacity for a 4planker in broad gauge. The running gear was much the same insofar as journal sizes and springs, so a 4plank Bg wagon for a bulk load would be much the same loading as a standard gauge 5plank wagon? The wagon pictured is a BGS kit for a B&E coal wagon, but with 4' wheels, all I need is a number, and change the dopey couplings, which is another bright idea I've dropped. Then on to the brake van, which is a rebuild of a second hand Peco standard gauge kit. Luckily it had been made using cement rather than solvent, so I could break down into the component parts and reform on a plastic sheet for a wider "floor". This didn't stop the verandah end from warping up. I saw one of these at a model show, and just copied it. I decided to move the body side handrail down to the top of the widened floor, so it was easier to reach for a shunter, but whether this actually happened I couldn't say.

[BG John]

It's a shame the verandah warped. It looks as though the guard may have had his career ended early by a heavy handed driver!

 

You're probably right about the number of planks. Most 19th century wagons had less than 20th century ones anyway. I'm hoping there will be some good photos in Chris Saunders' new book on Watchet, which is in the post. The body of mine is about one plank higher than the BGS 1854 coal wagons, so I could have cut one off the top. Maybe next time! It's the same height as Slaters 6 plank Gloucester wagons, that I might have a go at next.

[BG John]

Following Northroader's comments about the height of the sides, rather than soldering up the rocking W-irons tonight I thought I'd perform some surgery. It needs some more cleaning up, but it's gradually looking less Hornby like. I'd already fitted the base for a coal load, so it will have to loaded right to the top!

 

[Northroader]

Of course, thinking about it on the bus this morning, I could have checked the only known photo of a bg p.o. wagon, that of Sully & co, Bridgwater, on Swindon tip in 1892. They were coal merchants who shipped South Wales coal in through Bridgwater docks and distributed it in Somerset. Once I was back home, I dug it out, and just to be awkward, it's a four and a half planker!

[BG John]

Of course, thinking about it on the bus this morning, I could have checked the only known photo of a bg p.o. wagon, that of Sully & co, Bridgwater, on Swindon tip in 1892. They were coal merchants who shipped South Wales coal in through Bridgwater docks and distributed it in Somerset. Once I was back home, I dug it out, and just to be awkward, it's a four and a half planker!

And top of the list for when I get round to doing some scratchbuilding. This is a good starting point:

http://www.lutrainz.com/Broad_Gauge_Sully.html

 

The doors are interesting, as they're hinged half way up the side. It must have made emptying it interesting.

 

There's a new book out by Chris Saunders titled "The Broad Gauge Railway at Watchet", with lots of very early photos. One of the Bristol & Exeter Railway wagons has one rounded end and one square one!

[Northroader]

Very good link you've given there, I just looked at a small photo in a book, and now I see the odd thing is the solebar actually divides into two strips, most odd. All the axle guards carry over on to the top of these two as well, so what I took to be the bottom plank is actually the upper half of the solebar, making it a three and a half planker. As you say, it would make a good model, and with that drawing...

[BG John]

I'm hoping the solebar flush with the sides will make it easier to build. The idea at the moment is to create a cutting file for my Silhouette Portrait, plus printed overlays for paint and lettering.  That could of course change before anything happens!

[BG John]

I haven't got the wagons I was butchering and planning built yet, and I want to get on with the layout. So I've done temporary repairs on some of my wagons that need rebuilding. Yesterday they were like this:

 

and now they've got wheels again:

 

They need dismantling and rebuilding, and the paint needs stripping as they should be red for the later period of the layout, but they'll do for now. The red wagon on the left is a little teaser, as plans are afoot. I've made some decisions about the layout, but you'll be relieved to know that this time they don't involve rebuilding the baseboard! All may be revealed soon!

 

I've started building the control panel. Here it is:

 

Oops. Sorry, it's rather small, so here's a close up:

 

As I need the three fiddle yard tracks to link with any of the five tracks in the scenic area, I think it's too complicated to have contacts that make the connections automatically as the sector plate is lined up. So I'm keeping it simple. Both switches are double pole three way (On, On, On). One will be used to turn on one fiddle yard track at a time. The other will switch power to all the sidings, the platform road and loop, or both. It's not foolproof, but fools won't be allowed to operate the layout (except the owner of course ). The Veroboard should make it straightforward to wire up. The board will be screwed under the middle of the end backscene framing facing the fiddle yard, so it can be operated from either side. I'll fit sockets to plug in the handheld controller on either side of the layout. The only other control will be some sort of wire in tube arrangement to operate the sector plate under the trainshed.

 

[Edwardian]

I haven't got the wagons I was butchering and planning built yet, .

 

This is because you have become distracted by Dean Goods, Adams Radials and horse trams!

 

Those wagons look pretty respectable to me!

[BG John]

This is because you have become distracted by Dean Goods, Adams Radials and horse trams!

 

Those wagons look pretty respectable to me!

A lot of the distractions are your fault .

 

The wagons aren't very free running. I've got an etched floor and other parts, that weren't available when I originally built them. They might fall apart when I strip the paint anyway! At least only having five wagons is a good thing when moving the date forward from the brown to the red livery period! The fifth wagon has come apart!

[BG John]

 

Hello John,

 

Great stuff! Lovely to see someone else scratchbuilding.

 

If it would be any help to you I found a couple of wagon drawings on this page;

http://www.lutrainz.com/Broad_Gauge_Wagons.html

 

I can convert them to 7mm scale for you if you'd like to make them.

 

Cheers - Jim

 

Those wagons are Broad Gauge Society whitemetal kits, but I'm planning to do plenty of scratchbuilding. I've got much of the artwork done for the Sully wagon from the drawing and photo on the site you linked to already. It's the first wagon I'm making using my Silhouette cutter. It might actually be easier to do it by hand, but I need to get experience with it, before I move onto things that would be too difficult for me.

 

This layout is 4mm scale. 7mm is new to me, and I've got various projects on the go in both scales. The software I'm using makes it very easy to change the scale of drawings. I can also remove the perspective from photos to match up with drawings, or produce my own where no drawing exists. This technology is clever stuff, that helps to make up for decades of not doing any modelling, when I could have been learning to do it all by hand!

[Edwardian]

A lot of the distractions are your fault .

 

The wagons aren't very free running. I've got an etched floor and other parts, that weren't available when I originally built them. They might fall apart when I strip the paint anyway! At least only having five wagons is a good thing when moving the date forward from the brown to the red livery period! The fifth wagon has come apart!

 

Mea culpa.

 

I have just started to build my first wagon kit, so I am in the process of finding out just how difficult it is to get such an apparently simple thing right.  Once I start hacking up frames to change w/b etc, I expect it will become far harder!

 

 

 

Hello John,

 

Great stuff! Lovely to see someone else scratchbuilding.

 

If it would be any help to you I found a couple of wagon drawings on this page;

http://www.lutrainz.com/Broad_Gauge_Wagons.html

 

I can convert them to 7mm scale for you if you'd like to make them.

 

Cheers - Jim

 

 

A very interesting and helpful link