Precision Paint Adhesion over Farish Factory Finish

[D869]

I'm sure you can guess why I'm writing this

 

Having been rather pleased with the finish achieved when spraying Precision BR green enamel over a Farish BR Blue Warship, I had a disaster when removing the masking after painting the roof grey. The green paint peeled off most of the upper part of one side. I managed to get the masking off the other side by going really slowly.

 

The green stuff had been given 48 hours to set before masking and the Tamiya tape was stuck to glass before being put on the model. I peeled it off by peeling it back over itself - all in the approved manner, so what went wrong?

 

I'm trying to salvage the job (I might as well try it before stripping the thing) but when sanding back the edges (now after more than 3 days drying), I found it very difficult to 'feather' them because the green paint still tended to peel away in pieces. I'm now wondering whether the whole body has poor paint adhesion and whether it will stabilise after a long enough period.

 

Has anybody else had issues like this?

 

Has anybody found a safe way to get the Farish finish off?

 

I'm intending not to try the stuff that Tom E used on his BG after reading the thread here.

 

If I do end up stripping it, I intend to try Modelstrip. Has anybody tried this on the newer Farish bodies?

 

I did find (when trying to shift the painted on nameplates) that meths on a cotton bud would shift the finish very easily but didn't want to attack the whole body (especially fine detail) like this. Unfortunately neither meths nor T-Cut made much impression on the nameplates so in the end I removed one with very fine wet or dry and left the other one after checking that the etched plate would cover it.

 

Regards, Andy

[newbryford]

Did you clean the factory finish before applying the new topcoat? Just a simple wipe over with IPA[*] to remove any grease/fingerprints will often suffice. Although having said that, I would still key the surface with a fibreglass pencil - and then wipe over with IPA

 

HTH,

Mick

[*] Isopropylalcohol, not India Pale Ale!

[D869]

Did you clean the factory finish before applying the new topcoat? Just a simple wipe over with IPA[*] to remove any grease/fingerprints will often suffice. Although having said that, I would still key the surface with a fibreglass pencil - and then wipe over with IPA

Oh yes - I forgot to mention that the whole thing had a bath in a dilute solution of Pine Fresh Flash and a scrub with an old toothbrush.

 

I'm rather loath to attack it with abrasives because the detail is extremely finely done. Having said that I am now attacking some of the flat areas with 1200 grit wet or dry.

 

Regards, Andy

[Steven B]

I don't think you're going to be able to rescue your model without starting from scratch.

 

The Farish paint finish does appear to be quite "greasy" - I've had problems with enamel paint weathering rubbing off. Giving the model a wipe over with a lint free cloth wipped in some white spirit has helped.

 

I'd avoid using house-hold cleaners on their own. They often contain chemicals designed to leave a shinny finish which aren't great for getting paint to stick to. The only one I used regularly is a basic cream cleaner (Cif/Jif) but I always rinse the model under running water and then wipe over with white spirit before applying paint.

 

I'd always recommend a complete strip before repainting a loco into a different livery - you'll loose less of the detail. I've used Phoenix Paints' Superstrip on current Farish and Dapol models without any problems.

 

 

Happy modelling.

 

Steven B.

[D869]

Thanks Steven. I'll try to pick some Superstrip up at Railex.

 

In the meantime the damaged area has been resparayed and looks remarkably good considering how it looked yesterday so I'm going to finish off the lining and transfers and see how it stands up in service. If the paint comes off with handling then all I've really lost is a bit of time doing the lining and transfers.

 

Regards, Andy

[Steadfast]

Hi Andy,

I've had the same problems as you, with Colas rail yellow and orange over Halfords primer. When masking to spray the orange using tamiya tape a large patch of yellow peeled off. Trying to sand down the edges to blend in resulted in chunks of rubbery paint coming off, not a smooth feathered edge. The Railmatch enamel I sprayed the same day on some other models is poles apart, and is my normal preferred paint, I only used precision because Railmatch don't do the shades I wanted

 

jo

[D869]

I'd always recommend a complete strip before repainting a loco into a different livery - you'll loose less of the detail. I've used Phoenix Paints' Superstrip on current Farish and Dapol models without any problems.

 

On second thoughts... I just re-checked Tom E's post... Superstrip is exactly what he used and found that his BG body shell was trashed afterwards...

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/63032-stripping-farish-paint/

 

Hmm... what to do?

 

I've had the same problems as you, with Colas rail yellow and orange over Halfords primer. When masking to spray the orange using tamiya tape a large patch of yellow peeled off. Trying to sand down the edges to blend in resulted in chunks of rubbery paint coming off, not a smooth feathered edge. The Railmatch enamel I sprayed the same day on some other models is poles apart, and is my normal preferred paint, I only used precision because Railmatch don't do the shades I wanted

 

Now that's really worrying. It suggests that it's the Precision paint that's the problem and not what's underneath it. I've done a couple of metal bodied locos with Halfords grey (without etch primer) followed by Precision BR green and then masking around the roof before spraying Humbrol mid grey and thankfully have not had the same issue. I now have another less precious airbrush that I am willing to put etch primer through so have started using it on paint jobs over metal now.

 

One thing I was wondering last night was whether the age of the tin might be a factor. The Warship was done with a tin that was maybe 1/3 full having been used already to do the two metal locos over the past couple of years. I did the 'repair' using a fresh tin having found that the older tin had skinned over in the past few days probably due to the lid not making a perfect seal.

 

I used to use Railmatch enamels but I thought that they had stopped doing them now - having gone completely over to acrylics (unlike me... I've done very little with acrylics other than Tamiya varnish over transfers).

 

Regards, Andy

[Steadfast]

The Railmatch enamel range is still bigger than the acrylic range, including some recent colours like DB Schenker red and grey. I'd heard the rumours of dropping enamel too, but it seems to have come to nowt. I know the labelling has been revised, I think no longer listing lead chromate as an ingredient.

For what it's worth, my tins of Precision were full, but had been sat in my stash for about a year, and who knows how long the trader had them before I took them home.

 

jo

[newbryford]

On second thoughts... I just re-checked Tom E's post... Superstrip is exactly what he used and found that his BG body shell was trashed afterwards...

 

 

 

I've never used Modelstrip, but had very good results from Phoenix Precision Superstrip. I'm currently trying the cheap Halfords DOT4 brake fluid on bits of an old Airfix Mk2 as I have a few of those to do.

 

Cheers,

Mick

 

EDIT: Oops - Modelstrip and superstrip confused. Now corrected.

[D869]

I've used Modelstrip in the past... pretty much ever since it first came on the market. Not sure if the Precision stuff is the same - a kind of off-white paste that you plaster all over the model and them leave it in a plastic bag overnight. If memory serves it contains some sort of alkali.

 

I've used it successfully to strip Humbrol enamel and also shift a Minitrix factory finish.

 

I did try Modelstrip on a Farish Poole loco but it didn't make much impression on the finish. In fact I didn;t find anything that would shift it chemically but I did find that it came off on my hands when I was spending a lot of time holding the loco while filing and so on. In the end I had to spray over it and hope for the best. Still, I have 2 locos done like this, one of them for many years and both are fine.

 

I've heard varying reports regarding brake fluid in the past. Given the wrong combination of fluid and plastic it can be disastrous. I do recall it being quite efficient at stripping the paint under the bonnet of my old car though.

 

Regards, Andy

[D869]

The Railmatch enamel range is still bigger than the acrylic range, including some recent colours like DB Schenker red and grey. I'd heard the rumours of dropping enamel too, but it seems to have come to nowt.

 

You learn something every day. I think I was probably just going by the display stands in model shops. The Railmatch ones I've seen recently are all acrylic.

[newbryford]

I've used Modelstrip in the past... pretty much ever since it first came on the market. Not sure if the Precision stuff is the same - a kind of off-white paste that you plaster all over the model and them leave it in a plastic bag overnight. If memory serves it contains some sort of alkali.

 

I've used it successfully to strip Humbrol enamel and also shift a Minitrix factory finish.

 

I did try Modelstrip on a Farish Poole loco but it didn't make much impression on the finish. In fact I didn;t find anything that would shift it chemically but I did find that it came off on my hands when I was spending a lot of time holding the loco while filing and so on. In the end I had to spray over it and hope for the best. Still, I have 2 locos done like this, one of them for many years and both are fine.

 

I've heard varying reports regarding brake fluid in the past. Given the wrong combination of fluid and plastic it can be disastrous. I do recall it being quite efficient at stripping the paint under the bonnet of my old car though.

 

Regards, Andy

 

I c*cked up model and superstrip - post now edited.

Phoenix superstrip is a liquid.

 

My brake fluid experiment is running overnight to find out if there any ill effects. The grey roof has come off easily, but the blue/grey on the side is looking a bit more stubborn.

 

Cheers,

Mick

 

Cheers,

Mick

[Steven B]

On second thoughts... I just re-checked Tom E's post... Superstrip is exactly what he used and found that his BG body shell was trashed afterwards...

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/63032-stripping-farish-paint/

 

Hmm... what to do?

 

I've only ever used Boots' Quickies (nail-varnish removal pads) and Phoenix Super-Strip (clear liquid) to remove paint from plastic bodies. I've tried Mr Muscle oven cleaner on metal bodied locos but prefer Superstrip. The only problem I've had is the loss of a window pillar on a class 37 whilst stripping it for the third or fourth time.

 

I don't do what Tom E did with his BG and leave it in Superstrip for 20 minutes. I put enough in an old margarine tub to just cover one side of the loco/coach/wagon, leave for a couple of minutes and turn over. Then using a tooth brush give each side a scrub in turn and repeat until the model is clear of paint. The paint rubs/falls off. I've seen some discouration to the plastic but nothing like Tom had with his BG. I've repainted Dapol and both Poole and Bachmann era Farish models using this method with little problem.

 

Happy modelling.

 

Steven B.

[D869]

I've only ever used Boots' Quickies (nail-varnish removal pads) and Phoenix Super-Strip (clear liquid) to remove paint from plastic bodies. I've tried Mr Muscle oven cleaner on metal bodied locos but prefer Superstrip. The only problem I've had is the loss of a window pillar on a class 37 whilst stripping it for the third or fourth time.

 

I don't do what Tom E did with his BG and leave it in Superstrip for 20 minutes. I put enough in an old margarine tub to just cover one side of the loco/coach/wagon, leave for a couple of minutes and turn over. Then using a tooth brush give each side a scrub in turn and repeat until the model is clear of paint. The paint rubs/falls off. I've seen some discouration to the plastic but nothing like Tom had with his BG. I've repainted Dapol and both Poole and Bachmann era Farish models using this method with little problem.

 

Thanks. Maybe I will give it a whirl... but I think I'll seek out something less critical than a nearly new loco for my first attempt. I guess it'll need to be something recent and BachFar though because their finishing techniques have clearly changed a lot over the past few years and the plastic is also coloured so I think it's quite likely that the formulation may have changed.

 

Regards, Andy

[newbryford]

The brake fluid experiment appears to be successful with Airfix Mk2's in removing the original blue/grey. Part of the test piece was painted with enamel and the brake fluid hasn't really got to this after two days........

 

I have 3-4 bodies to do.........

 

Cheers,

Mick

[D869]

The only problem I've had is the loss of a window pillar on a class 37 whilst stripping it for the third or fourth time.

 

I forgot to ask... why did you strip your class 37 four times?

[Steven B]

The first time was to remove the factory finish. The other three times were because I wasn't happy with the paint finish (e.g. orange peel, paint runs etc).

 

Anyone who's never made a mistake never did anything!

 

Happy modelling.

 

Steven B.