Australia - Preservation Scene

[bingley hall]

The British KNOW how to have an enthusiast day.

 

I don't believe the Poms have any restored standard gauge Garratts.  

[dullsteamer]

They do. Standard gauge 0-4-0+0-4-0 Garratt loco "William Francis" is preserved, though not operational, at Bressingham.

 

And FWIW, I agree with the OP. Since the NSWRTM was assimilated by Transport Heritage NSW and became "Trainworx" enthusiasts have become marginalised there.

 

Cheers,

 

Mark.

[bingley hall]

They do. Standard gauge 0-4-0+0-4-0 Garratt loco "William Francis" is preserved, though not operational, at Bressingham.

 

And FWIW, I agree with the OP. Since the NSWRTM was assimilated by Transport Heritage NSW and became "Trainworx" enthusiasts have become marginalised there.

 

Cheers,

 

Mark.

 

So the train didn't go puff, puff enough and people feel marginalised. There are some pretty spectacular videos around of 6029 efforts at Thirlmere today (Sunday), but I appreciate that would ruin a good story.

[dullsteamer]

My remarks have little to do with whether 6029 went "puff puff" enough today or not. My concerns are with the corporatisation and subsequent dumbing down of the NSWRTM. But don't let that get in the way of a good rant.

 

Mark.

[DavidB-AU]

The problem with Thirlmere is it was put in the hands of a new not-for-profit institution devised by career public servants with no idea of how to run a museum and with a Chair appointed by the Minister for Transport. IMHO if there was going to be a government takeover (which is another debate) it should have been made an annex of the Powerhouse Museum. Like in Queensland, where the Redbank museum was relocated to Ipswich and became an annex of the Queensland Museum. It has won more awards than I can count.
 
Cheers
David

Edited March 2, 2015 by DavidB-AU

[Dava]

Yesterday I went to Thirlmere to their so called 'enthusiasts' day to film 6029 working hard upgrade into Thirlmere. Well what a huge disappointment know doubt due to ARTC operating procedures. One bloke had a large recorder to record the sounds of the Garratt. He said to me as I walked back to my car, "What a bloody waste of time coming down here was" and I totally agreed with him. She was towed to Thirlmere with the former 42203 doing all the work. 6029 was then put on display as was 3265. 3642 was in the roundhouse in steam and 3237 was out the back of the roundhouse. 3016 and 2705 were working the loop line. As I had to work early in the morning I was unable to see 6029 on the mainline leading the short train.

What I find odd is that diesels on the back of a steam hauled train can push the train up a hill so why didn't 6029 push the 6 coaches and 2 diesels up the grade to Thirmere.

I won't bother going next year. The British KNOW how to have an enthusiast day.

Sorry to advise that Network Rail & operating companies in UK also know how to substitute diesels & add diesel pushers to steam headed trains for the slightest risk, SO the steam loco does no work. Happened frequently in 2014. Aus Garratt looked great!

 

Dava

Yesterday I went to Thirlmere to their so called 'enthusiasts' day to film 6029 working hard upgrade into Thirlmere. Well what a huge disappointment know doubt due to ARTC operating procedures. One bloke had a large recorder to record the sounds of the Garratt. He said to me as I walked back to my car, "What a bloody waste of time coming down here was" and I totally agreed with him. She was towed to Thirlmere with the former 42203 doing all the work. 6029 was then put on display as was 3265. 3642 was in the roundhouse in steam and 3237 was out the back of the roundhouse. 3016 and 2705 were working the loop line. As I had to work early in the morning I was unable to see 6029 on the mainline leading the short train.

What I find odd is that diesels on the back of a steam hauled train can push the train up a hill so why didn't 6029 push the 6 coaches and 2 diesels up the grade to Thirmere.

I won't bother going next year. The British KNOW how to have an enthusiast day.

Sorry to advise that Network Rail & operating companies in UK also know how to substitute diesels & add diesel pushers to steam headed trains for the slightest risk, SO the steam loco does no work. Happened frequently in 2014. Aus Garratt looked great!

 

Dava

[gazmanjack]

Yesterday I went to Thirlmere to their so called 'enthusiasts' day to film 6029 working hard upgrade into Thirlmere. Well what a huge disappointment know doubt due to ARTC operating procedures. One bloke had a large recorder to record the sounds of the Garratt. He said to me as I walked back to my car, "What a bloody waste of time coming down here was" and I totally agreed with him. She was towed to Thirlmere with the former 42203 doing all the work. 6029 was then put on display as was 3265. 3642 was in the roundhouse in steam and 3237 was out the back of the roundhouse. 3016 and 2705 were working the loop line. As I had to work early in the morning I was unable to see 6029 on the mainline leading the short train.

What I find odd is that diesels on the back of a steam hauled train can push the train up a hill so why didn't 6029 push the 6 coaches and 2 diesels up the grade to Thirmere.

I won't bother going next year. The British KNOW how to have an enthusiast day.

 

I agree with some of your comments, and disagree with other comments.

 

On Sunday, 3265 was on Thirlmere/Buxton shuttle duties and 3237 travelled down from Sydney with its train. I did find out Sunday that the mechanical stoker on 6029 had failed... Hand feeding 6029 was the order of the day on Sunday's duties.

 

I must admit that I was p!ssed of with the Thirlmere/Picton shuttle I rode on, (1.45pm trip with 6029 on the rear of the train), as the train didn't make it to Picton, not even where the mainline meets the branch and not even to the old tunnel deviation...   Now, when you pre-purchase tickets for a return trip to Picton, you would assume the train would go into Picton, NOT.

 

On Saturday, I travelled down to Burradoo and back to Thirlmere to grab a few pics of 6029 in action...

 

 

Above. 6029 rounds the bend onto Burradoo Viaduct.

 

 

Above. 6029 and her train on the viaduct.

 

 

Great location for photography, close to the tracks and no overhead wires !

 

 

Above. Thundering past a mile south of Burradoo, onwards to Thirlmere.

 

 

Above. Three miles south of Picton on an easy down hill run.

 

 

Above. My very short (return) ride not quite to Picton behind 6029.

 

 

Above. 6029 in the Trainworks siding after her Thirlmere/Picton shuttle runs on Sunday.

 

 

Above. 3237 on her train approaching Thirlmere from Sydney. Below. 3265 on her double heading duties with 3016 on the Thirlmere/Buxton shuttle on Sunday.

 

 

Cheers, Gary.

[Gwiwer]

A major fire has occurred overnight at the main operating centre of Steamrail Victoria.  West Block shed at Newport is home to their rolling stock and locomotives and houses their restoration activities.  A fire was first reported at 1.20am local time this morning and is said to be "devastating".  Reports indicate that a part of the building has ben so badly damaged that it had to be demolished immediately and that there is "devastating" news on the historic wooden-bodies rolling stock which was housed there.

 

http://www.mfb.vic.gov.au/News/Eighty-firefighters-battle-Newport-rail-yard-blaze.html

 

https://www.facebook.com/steamrail?ref=stream&fref=nf

 

https://www.railpage.com.au/news/s/major-fire-reported-at-newport-railway-workshops-in-champion-road-newport

[Gwiwer]

An update.

 

There are very few official comments emerging from the scene of this morning's fire which might be interpreted as ominous.  In fairness it was a major fire and the site contains asbestos therefore aside from the usual investigations which must take place the officers of Steamrail Victoria and VicTrack (as owners of the property) have had only very restricted access to view and assess the damage.

 

For most of the day the MFB, Melbourne;s Metropolitan Fire Brigade, has stated the fire was coal-related and this has been promulgated via the news media.  Steamrail operates a number of coal-fired steam locos and would have supplies of coal but it has been established that the fire was not in the steam locomotive area.

 

One comment has been posted by an officer of Steamrail to the effect that three and possibly four electric multiple unit carriages, all over 100 years old, have been damaged probably beyond repair.  These were the last survivors of their type and had been superbly restored over some years though were not in operational use.  Two heritage-listed buildings are reported by various sources to have been significantly damaged, possibly beyond repair.  There are unconfirmed reports that an electric locomotive may have been damaged when part of the building's roof collapsed but confirmation has not been made by Steamrail.

 

One recent and apparently official comment has been made to the effect that coal is not involved.

 

More on this as and when official comments are made.  All parties have requested that no speculation is posted and comment is confined to the facts.

[Gwiwer]

https://www.railpage.com.au/news/s/rail-enthusiasts-devastated-after-fire-destroys-historic-trains-at-newport-railyards

 

It has now been confirmed that the 4-car vintage electric set originally built in the 1880s as steam-hauled stock and known as "dog box" or red rattler cars is a total loss.  After more than 30 years of restoration this was months away from being available for steam-hauled service on heritage tours.

 

The link above includes the only public-domain image known to me taken inside the building after the fire and is not pretty.  It appears that due to the nature and severity of the fire the scene was quickly and thoroughly secured meaning no-one has been able to get in (or even close) to take unauthorised pictures.  

 

Also the linked text suggests that the electrical fault which ignited the fire was in fact directly related to one of the destroyed cars.

[EddieB]

That's very sad news, Rick - especially after so much investment into the restoration of the train.  As I understand it, there are other examples of Tait wooden-bodied vehicles in preservation, but the set lost in the fire was the only example potentially capable of operation.  Aside from the uniqueness of the individual carriages, these trains represented something so characteristic of Melbourne and its history that the loss extends beyond the railway enthusiast fraternity.

[Gwiwer]

There are, as yo say, other extant examples of similar cars but for the most part they are grounded bodies and none is thought capable of restoration to working order.  Some have become sheds or house extension for example.

[DavidB-AU]

This is very sad news. I did some woodwork on 137M early in its restoration in the early 90s.

 

However it's not quite true that these are the last of their kind. 8M, 78M, 113M, 143M, 156M and 94BT still exist. 8M, 113M and 156M are still on bogies. 113M and 156M were operational until 1990 as Jolimont Workshops shunters - amazinglly both were in continuous VR/Met service for 102 years. Plus there are three surviving dog box motors converted to parcels vans, 10CM stored at Newport and 12CM and 13CM at Mornington.

 

Some more pictures of the cars have been released to the media.

http://prod.static9.net.au/~/media/images/2015/march/04/150304_news_trainfire4.ashx?w=603

http://resources3.news.com.au/images/2015/03/05/1227249/321783-e3b619d4-c20b-11e4-870a-64b168121aee.jpg

 

The frame of the second one (I think that's 24D) looks bent from heat damage.

 

Cheers

David

[PhilJ W]

Looks as if some components and maybe even some woodwork will be salvageable?

[Gwiwer]

 

 

The frame of the second one (I think that's 24D) looks bent from heat damage.

 

Bent frames is what has been reported by Lionel for Steamrail Victoria.  That alone will proscribe rebuilding to "as was" condition.

[69843]

Yesterday I went to Thirlmere to their so called 'enthusiasts' day to film 6029 working hard upgrade into Thirlmere. Well what a huge disappointment know doubt due to ARTC operating procedures. One bloke had a large recorder to record the sounds of the Garratt. He said to me as I walked back to my car, "What a bloody waste of time coming down here was" and I totally agreed with him. She was towed to Thirlmere with the former 42203 doing all the work. 6029 was then put on display as was 3265. 3642 was in the roundhouse in steam and 3237 was out the back of the roundhouse. 3016 and 2705 were working the loop line. As I had to work early in the morning I was unable to see 6029 on the mainline leading the short train.

What I find odd is that diesels on the back of a steam hauled train can push the train up a hill so why didn't 6029 push the 6 coaches and 2 diesels up the grade to Thirmere.

I won't bother going next year. The British KNOW how to have an enthusiast day.

 

Ok, so the Garratt did not run up the branch on the Saturday. That was essentially unavoidable due to the way that Picton is built track wise, the need to fit in between regular service trains and the need to move it around once it got to Thirlmere.

 

When 6029 arrived at Thirlmere, it was unable to use the main station, as loop line trains were operating out of it all day with 3016T and 2705 on the head. Thus, it had to use the Trainworks platform. If 6029 was to have hauled the train up from Picton to Thirlmere, BOTH 6029 and the diesels would have had to switch ends at Picton so as to allow release of 6029 once it got to Trainworks. This would have also meant having to pull the carriages out of the Trainworks platform and on to the main section of the branch while 6029 was moved to the amphitheater and then shunt back in to the Trainworks platform after detaching HL203 (on hire to THNSW). It must be remembered that 3237 was on its way down with the Thirlmere Flyer at this stage as well. Then, once the train returned to Picton, 4403 would have had to change ends yet again to return the train to Goulburn needlessly complicating things.

 

As to pushing the diesels uphill, this is (I really hate to say it) a stupid idea. Yes, there are diesels that are used on the rear of trips for when the load is over the capacity of the engine on a certain point of track, but using a steam locomotive, especially one as large and as delicate as 6029 for this duty is a whole new set of rules. Ok, so those there on Saturday were unable to see 6029 work a train up Thirlmere bank. However, as was always known, 6029 was working all day Sunday, and put on quite a show as well despite the failed stoker.

 

And as to the non-operation of other engines, how many do you want working? On the Thirlmere branch, engine shuffling and multiple trains is a severely limited prospect. 3642 was not needed until after 3237 came from Sydney with the Thirlmere Flyer, and did a few demonstration spins on the turntable as well. 3016T and 2705 were on the loop, and as mentioned earlier, 3237 was on the morning Flyer on Saturday. As an aside to this, you had 3265 there that couldn't do much else but be the display engine, which was pretty much always the plan. And as to 6029 not doing anything else on the Saturday apart from being moved onto display, what else did you want her to do? Go on a loop-line train?

 

All in all, we had 4 out of 6 locomotives on the Saturday running, and 2 on display for others to look over and enjoy. As to not coming next year, was one locomotive not running on one of the two days really all that much of a problem?

 

Over the two days, we had all 6 steam locomotives from 3 major groups running on various duties. I would say, on the whole, that this year's FOS was successful.

 

 

As to the Picton thing Gary, I can tell you, you were not the only surprised one!

Edited March 6, 2015 by 69843

[EddieB]

This is very sad news. I did some woodwork on 137M early in its restoration in the early 90s.

 

However it's not quite true that these are the last of their kind. 8M, 78M, 113M, 143M, 156M and 94BT still exist. 8M, 113M and 156M are still on bogies. 113M and 156M were operational until 1990 as Jolimont Workshops shunters - amazinglly both were in continuous VR/Met service for 102 years. Plus there are three surviving dog box motors converted to parcels vans, 10CM stored at Newport and 12CM and 13CM at Mornington.

 

 

With apologies for some self-indulgence, but talking of these iconic vehicles prompts me to recall being sent over to Melbourne for a few weeks in 1987, when I was fortunate to see a number of those mentioned by DavidB in operation (although none of those damaged in the fire).

 

 

Starting at Spencer Street (as it then was), no less than four of the vehicles converted as parcels vans (with 12CM nearest the camera).  Slightly reminiscent of Paddington, Spencer Street had a platform dedicated to parcels traffic.

 

By the time of my visit 8M had already entered static preservation at North Williamstown Railway Museum.

 

According to the number carried, this is 1456M at Jolimont,.  I understand that 1000 was added to some running numbers to avoid clashing with the new Comeng units, so this was previously 456M.

Edit: This is an example of the later "sliding door" Tait stock (as opposed to the earlier "swing door" stock illustrated in the other photos).

 

Also seen during my "bunk" visit to Joimont, 156M is one of the two motor coaches converted to work as pilots/shunters there. 

 

The other pilot at Jolimont carriage sidings was 113M, to which was attached...

 

...ZD 31, a six-wheel (former) guard's van serving as a coupling converter between the electric motorcoach shunter and the more modern stock.  Sadly, I don't think this extraordinary vehicle has survived into preservation.

Edited March 6, 2015 by EddieB

[EddieB]

I don't believe the Poms have any restored standard gauge Garratts.  

Cheeky boy!

 

Depends what you mean by "restored", but we, ahem, Poms have one such loco planned to be put back in steam - have you not heard of William Francis?

[DavidB-AU]

By the time you saw 113M and 156M, they had been in continuous service for 99 years.

The Tait Motors in your photo, 1456M and 1461M, were used for a variety of purposes. At some stage they were fitted with transition hook couplers (screw couplers in auto coupler pockets, which on the lead car is empty). Compare with the standard coupler pocket here. 461M was one of several cars test fitted with the Faiveley single arm pantograph for the Hitachi train. Later they were standby motor cars for the overhead inspection/greaser car 447M (which despite its classification was unpowered) when 470M and 471M weren't available. For some reason they were also fitted with control equipment from E class electric locos which didn't have pilot valves (dead man's handle) so always ran with two drivers on the greaser. 461M was the last Tait Motor built.

 

31ZD did survive into preservation of sorts. It is on rotten row at Newport Workshops and a source of spare parts for Steamrail's main line registered 470ZD.

http://railgallery.wongm.com/newport-rotten-road/X161_6142.jpg.html

https://www.flickr.com/photos/steamrail/7002470207

Cheers
David

[DavidB-AU]

1079 hauling the QR150 train from Cairns to Kuranda last month.

 

 

Cheers

David

[DavidB-AU]

News from Steamrail is the cab of 107M is largely undamaged although there is little left of the remainder or of the other three cars above the frame. Some fittings of 24D may be recoverable. Offers of assistance were received from preservation groups all over the world, but it appears little can be done. An initial proposal is to see if 107M's cab can be removed safely and cleaned up as a static exhibit. The Tait cars were not fire damaged although they have not yet been fully inspected for water damage. The biggest immediate problem is making the building safe - part of the roof collapsed during the fire and other parts are thought to contain asbestos.

 

Cheers

David

Edited March 15, 2015 by DavidB-AU

[DavidB-AU]

If a mighty AD60 isn't enough on its own....

 

 

Cheers

David

[DavidB-AU]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RakeoOSaG7A

[DavidB-AU]

Steamrail Victoria trip last Friday to raise funds for the Royal Children's Hospital.

 

 

Cheers

David

[DavidB-AU]

The Yank is back.

 

 

Cheers

David