Bittern does it - 90mph running achieved

[45156]

Seems that between twelve and one tomorrow, there are two steam arrivals at York - 60019 is bringing in its 90 mph flier due 12.25 and 46233 is due in from Tyesley for Scarborough at 12.58.

 

No doubt it will be a rather busy location, and regrettably will be a 45156 free zone, as I can't afford to leave Lily alone for up to six hours.

 

But this is just a heads up for those who might be interested and at a loose end otherwise.

[45156]

Didn't get there - and it looks as if Bittern has played a blinder - according to Real Time Trains, it arrived nine minutes early, and was early almost all the way - despite a 3 minute late start off KX - times are here for anybody interested

 

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/U54875/2013/06/29/advanced

[edcayton]

Are there any video's of this yet?

 

Ed

[the penguin of doom]

I was really miffed as I got back from my holidays today and travelled from Newcastle to Hull. As we left York, I sensed something special was running due to the amount of lineside enthusiast activity, (and the TV outside broadcast van at Colton Jcn). I was hoping that whatever was coming would pass us between York and Hambleton, but alas, nothing apart from the Yellow HST.

 

Would have been smashing if she'd have flown past as our naff 158 turned Eastbound towards Selby....

 

Cheers.

 

Sean.

[New Haven Neil]

The test run last month....

 

[stewartingram]

Not action shots I'm afraid, but worth sharing? This is the scene I was greeted with upon arrival at KGX this morning - should it go in the Trainspotting at Work thread?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I only had my phone camera but I'm quite pleased with these shots.

 

Stewart

 

[DavidB-AU]

According to the BBC, the official top speed on Saturday was 92.8mph. Some on board the train using GPS claim speeds of up to 95mph.

 

EDIT: Just found a video on Youtube.

 

 

EDIT 2: Jeremy Clarkson should challenge James May to a rematch!

 

Cheers

David

[DavidB-AU]

Some more video.

 

 

 

Cheers

David

[t-b-g]

It would be very interesting to compare the net times of this run (ie take out the times of stops) and compare it to the pre war streamliner timings.

 

A number of videos have appeared on youtube and the loco just looks to be cruising along, with no sign of any hard work at all.

 

And nothing fell off and the valve gear didn't get tied in knots as one or two had suggested when 90mph running for steam was proposed a while ago!

 

Well done to all involved.

[Titan]

Absolutely fantastic!  The real test of a good design is being able to easily do that which it was specifically designed for.  That she makes sustained 90mph running look so effortless is a testament to Sir Nigel Gresley as well as all those who look after Bittern today.

 

And apart from the thrill seekers, I expect it will make pathing easier on todays faster railways.

 

I suspect that the timings could be faster than the pre war streamliners, simply due to fewer speed restrictions. I remember on 'Deltic Day' we did London-York in under two hours net - the only thing that stopped it being under two hours overall was a signal check coming in to York. And that was down to being able to sit at 100mph almost all the way which would never have been possible in BR days.

[stewartingram]

So do we really need a fleet of HST, 91, or that ghastly IEP or whatever it's called? (Let's leave Deltics out of this btw).

 

Stewart

[beast66606]

A fantastic performance from all concerned - man and machine !

[edcayton]

Build new A4's for HS2!

 

Ed

[PhilH]

Having spent a fair bit of time pottering around at ~25mph on the thing it's nice to see it doing exactly what it was built for - more so as there's some bits I made nailed on to it.

 

It's a good tool.

[DavidB-AU]

Of course those sensible Germans let 18 201 run even faster...

 

Cheers

David

[The Stationmaster]

According to the BBC, the official top speed on Saturday was 92.8mph. Some on board the train using GPS claim speeds of up to 95mph.

 

EDIT: Just found a video on Youtube.

 

 

EDIT 2: Jeremy Clarkson should challenge James May to a rematch!

 

Cheers

David

If you want to accurately time a train the last thing you should use is GPS, somehow I suspect the lineside mileposts area much more accurate guide when an experienced timer is doing the job and I bet the loco's speedo has been very carefully calibrated!

[PhilJ W]

I just love that chime whistle, and the sheep bleating in one of the clips as the train approaches in almost silence.

[PhilH]

I just love that chime whistle,

 

One thing we never did quite sort out on 19 was the chime whistle - on 7 and 9 you could 'play' the chime, on 19 it's on or off.......boring!

[the penguin of doom]

(Let's leave Deltics out of this btw).

 

Stewart

?????

 

Surely any discussion on any ECML topic will deviate slightly to Atlantics, A4's, Deltics and HST's with the very young folk mentioning "Electra's".....

[Titan]

LOL, perhaps I was inadvertently starting a debate, but the point I was trying to make was that I do not think that there is any part of the ECML between London and York with a restriction of less than 90mph, so Bittern would almost certainly have been the fastest steam loco through Doncaster ever, as in steam days I believe there was a 60mph restriction. Its a pity that it was necessary to loop her from time to time, despite the good running.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

...I suspect that the timings could be faster than the pre war streamliners, simply due to fewer speed restrictions...

Very definitely, but for the loss of water troughs. Significant payload sacrifice for the 13,000 gallons consumption plus 2,000 gallon reserve to go safely from London to Edinburgh without a water stop. With sufficent water on board, five hours London to Edinburgh should be possible with an A4 with the relatively few speed limitations now on the route, if the loco is allowed over 100mph on favourable stretches.

 

This would be fun, because it might see the Silver Jubilee press run sustained speed record finally toppled; a Kylchap A4 is a naturally faster machine than Silver Link was in single chimney form. This record is far more significant than Mallard's maximum speed dash, and way exceeds what any other UK steam design has demonstrated in the way of speed. The crew were not actually aware (no speedo!) what progress they were making and ran well over thirty miles in excess of 100mph, including some adverse gradients. The train had to slow for the then significant speed restrictions at Offord, apparently the fireman was in no difficulty for keeping the fire supplied up to that point.

[eastwestdivide]

If you want to accurately time a train the last thing you should use is GPS, somehow I suspect the lineside mileposts area much more accurate guide when an experienced timer is doing the job and I bet the loco's speedo has been very carefully calibrated!

Anyone tried a stopwatch on those videos, timing the length of the train past a fixed point? Would at least give an indication of actual speed in each of the various clips.

Assuming that the videos are playing back at the right rate, and allowing for inaccuracies in manual timing...

Length of a Mk1 coach over buffers x number of coaches = distance; stopwatch for time and we're done. And then see how many mph different you get for each 0.1 sec for an indication of accuracy.

[The Stationmaster]

LOL, perhaps I was inadvertently starting a debate, but the point I was trying to make was that I do not think that there is any part of the ECML between London and York with a restriction of less than 90mph, so Bittern would almost certainly have been the fastest steam loco through Doncaster ever, as in steam days I believe there was a 60mph restriction. Its a pity that it was necessary to loop her from time to time, despite the good running.

It didn't run at 90mph all the way - in fact I understand 90mph was authorised for only a very short part of the total route? - and if you look at the average speeds off that Realtime Trains info above you will that on some sections it wasn't much above 60 mph which suggests the maxima on those was some way short of 90mph.

 

Quite probably it could have covered greater distances at 90mph - provided it had sufficient water (although A4s in good nick (thanks Phil) were reputedly very economical when running fast.

[eastwestdivide]

Right, back of a virtual envelope calculation on the first run-past in post 7 above (youtube.com/watch?v=3Ez5og1iFU8)

 

I timed three times from front of 1st coach to end of last passing the edge of the screen (the camera angle didn't change)

4.9 s

4.9 s

5.0 s

 

no of coaches = 10

length over gangway connections for one = 66'6"

or 665 feet for 10

 

so,

665ft in 5.0 sec 

0.12594696969 miles in 5.0 sec

0.02518939393 miles per sec 

 x 3600 = 90.6 mph

 

or repeat using 4.9 sec, 92.5 mph

 

(so 0.1 sec out on my timing is more or less 2mph)

 

Therefore, m'lud, I conclude from the available information that the speed in that first run-past in that clip was around the 90mph mark, assuming the video was playing at an accurate speed, and that 66'6" is correct.

[Coldgunner]

 

Camped out for about an hour, got some practice shots on HST's. Not a perfect shot but I captured it. Will attempt a better shot next month. On a similar note, I ordered a 60'' tripod the other day for this sort of thing, hadn't turned up by the time I left, but would you Adam and Eve it, the tripod turned up an hour after getting home.