For those interested in old cars.

[brianthesnail96]

James' is one of the V4 ones and he normally drives it in freewheel. I've no idea how a car with such skinny tyres and so much body roll goes around corners so well. It's hilarious and terrifying to be a passenger in in roughly equal measure!

[New Haven Neil]

James' is one of the V4 ones and he normally drives it in freewheel. I've no idea how a car with such skinny tyres and so much body roll goes around corners so well. It's hilarious and terrifying to be a passenger in in roughly equal measure!

 

Oh Matt, as a Marina owner you should be used to that!  Until the understeer becomes oversteer into the bushes when you lift off......

[brianthesnail96]

The key with the Marina is to lift off first, throw it in then once it's settled into it's lollop put the power back on to drag it around. Basically it needs to be cornering some time before you actually reach the corner! It doesn't exactly handle well even so, but perhaps better than the reputation would suggest.

 

The Saab you just throw it in, it feels like the wing mirror is about to hit the road and the back seat passengers end up in a heap against the window... and it sticks like the proverbial to a blanket and tracks round perfectly. I've never been in anything else quite like it.

Edited November 20, 2015 by brianthesnail96

[Horsetan]

Did anyone ever bother putting together a handling kit for the Marina, e.g. like Harvey-Bailey suspension?

[brianthesnail96]

BL Special Tuning did allsorts of bits and pieces, including anti roll bars (which were standard on the front of late mk1s and both end of mk2s and mk3s), telescopic damper conversions for the front and turreted rears. They'd also sell you uprated (thicker) torsion bars and heavier duty rear springs- but most people found a set from a commercial (bars) and estate (4 leaf rear springs) in a scrapyard instead. There were a couple of other companies offering telescopic damper conversions which fitted over the lever arms, leaving them in place to support the upright. The later Itals had teles as standard replacing the lever arms completely; I've a set for my estate.

 

There's one genuine Leyland ST built Marina left so we think (and a couple of other oddballs including the factory built V8 "custom" pick up, although it's a mess), but there's a very good replica with lots of period ST bits fitted (and a few newer niceties such as an alloy head and a type 9 gearbox).

[peanuts]

The Saab free-wheel device dates back to their use of 2-stroke engines. With a "normal" transmission shutting the accelerator gave engine braking, but no fuel to the engine. On old 2-strokes the oil was mixed with the fuel so, no fuel=no oil! No idea why they stayed with it, IIRC the 96's used a Ford V4 engine. I have an idea that the early 99's still had a freewheel. That engine was closely related to a Triumph unit.

 

Ed

wasnt it basicley the dolly sprint engine with a twincam head rather than a single cam ?

[keefr2]

BL Special Tuning did allsorts of bits and pieces, including anti roll bars (which were standard on the front of late mk1s and both end of mk2s and mk3s), telescopic damper conversions for the front and turreted rears. They'd also sell you uprated (thicker) torsion bars and heavier duty rear springs- but most people found a set from a commercial (bars) and estate (4 leaf rear springs) in a scrapyard instead. There were a couple of other companies offering telescopic damper conversions which fitted over the lever arms, leaving them in place to support the upright. The later Itals had teles as standard replacing the lever arms completely; I've a set for my estate.

 

There's one genuine Leyland ST built Marina left so we think (and a couple of other oddballs including the factory built V8 "custom" pick up, although it's a mess), but there's a very good replica with lots of period ST bits fitted (and a few newer niceties such as an alloy head and a type 9 gearbox).

Brian Culcheth used to peddle the works rally Marina Coupe around very nicely - enjoyed watching that a few times! There's a white coupe in what looks like very nice condition just down the road from us. If I had the cash (& the owner wanted to sell of course!) I'd love to build a works rally rep out of it!

[Kickstart]

A nice story http://quirker.co.uk/story/like-father-like-son-like-car-man-buys-the-classic-motor-his-dad-sold-43-years-ago

Not as impressive as that, but I owned an Aprilia AF1 Futura bike which I traded in for another bike back in 1993. Browsing Ebay a few years ago there was a similar bike for sale. Sent an email to check the registration and it was my old bike.

 

I bought it back. Although couldn't really haggle on the price once the seller knew why I was buying it.

 

A 15 year gap, and I am the 2nd owner than the 15th owner in its history (1st owner was the dealer I bought it from with 70km on the clocks).

 

All the best

 

Katy

[PatB]

James' is one of the V4 ones and he normally drives it in freewheel. I've no idea how a car with such skinny tyres and so much body roll goes around corners so well. It's hilarious and terrifying to be a passenger in in roughly equal measure!

 

Try a 2CV or one of its close relations then. The only known limits to cornering are either the maximum speed of the vehicle or the point where the outside door handles dig into the road surface, whichever is reached first . 

[Horsetan]

Try a 2CV or one of its close relations then. The only known limits to cornering are either the maximum speed of the vehicle or the point where the outside door handles dig into the road surface, whichever is reached first .

 

As demonstrated by James Bond?

[alastairq]

Thanks for posting some great pics including that very pretty Italian looking Porsche 904GTS .

 

Someone was rubbishing the aesthetics of Zagato bodywork earlier up the thread, but I can remember being totally blown away by the look of a silver Lancia Flavia Zagato parked in a narrow stone street in a hill town (Cortona) and shooting off nearly a whole colourslide film of its detailing (e.g. the amazing reflections on that rear side window that curls up into the roof.)

 

dh

 

 

LAncia Fulvia Zagato always was my particular favourite [i cam verrrry close to buying a Fulvia coop some years ago]

 

 

Plucked from gooourgle

[runs as required]

I blame Saab cars for my eldest being a complete nutcase about accumulating eccentric cars.

I used to take him (aged about 4-5), to see the East African Safari where it looped down into Tanzania near us. His favourite was always the Erik Carlsson tortoise-shaped Saab. 'Roop poop poop' he always called Saab cars - and named our young pup of a dog 'roop pup pup' (his mum never understood why the dog got its name).   

These days this son, now in his 50s, wastes a huge amount of time, effort and money on trying to get one Dino engined Stratos on the road from a series of crashed wrecks and bits.

 

dh

[alastairq]

I never really had any problems with Marinas....maybe my driving style dealt with any issues? [i tend to drive using one pedal only..the right hand one ....unless in an early '50's Alfa, where the right hand pedal was in the middle of the  other two....I have trouble wearing out my brakes]

 

Skoda Estelles, 110's, MB's, etc all suffered seriously from a similar fate as the Marina..ie poor press.....which supported the urban myth/pub bar leaners in their assertions....which altogether never really matched up with skoda's incredible success rate  in rallying?

 

Their problem being, a swing axle rear end......which could lead to lift off oversteer, as the wheels went to positive camber....which could result in making holes in hedges....needed an element of 'driver skill'...which far too many new drivers back then, and since, cannot even remotely lay claim to....[nor do they seem to want to find out, either!!]....despite said drivers still thinking they are truly expert at that skill.

 

Thus, skoda was relegated to the'skip' group..along with Polski Fiat, Lada, Reliant, etc.  [People forget Porsche actively cooperated with skoda back in the early 1970's to produce a small capacity sports coupe.....Porsche no doubt considering the skills of the Skoda engineers to be superior to those of any other maker?...Poor old Porsche....they never ever picked the 'right' side, did they?.....No doubt political pressure of the day meant, they had to eventually co-operate with that bunch of milk float makers, Audi, to end up with the 914?]

 

Skoda, believe it or not, used engineers to design their cars......[unlike many others??].....with the result that.......within certain limitations, the skodas were 'set-up' to drive like competition cars right from the start....the gearing especially, chosen so that the engine , in top gear, achieved peak power...at the car's max speed.  A characteristic most racing drivers try to achieve when sorting the gearing of the  cars...sod all this over-gearing stuff for cruising.....lets just belt off up the road?

 

A skoda, driven enthusiastically, is incredible fun to drive [if not particularly economical?]......

[Horsetan]

I blame Saab cars for my eldest being a complete nutcase about accumulating eccentric cars......

These days this son, now in his 50s, wastes a huge amount of time, effort and money on trying to get one Dino engined Stratos on the road from a series of crashed wrecks and bits.

Cut-and-shut?

[RJS1977]

As demonstrated by James Bond?

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zBbLFevW1s

[edcayton]

I never really had any problems with Marinas....maybe my driving style dealt with any issues? [i tend to drive using one pedal only..the right hand one ....unless in an early '50's Alfa, where the right hand pedal was in the middle of the  other two....I have trouble wearing out my brakes]

 

Skoda Estelles, 110's, MB's, etc all suffered seriously from a similar fate as the Marina..ie poor press.....which supported the urban myth/pub bar leaners in their assertions....which altogether never really matched up with skoda's incredible success rate  in rallying?

 

Their problem being, a swing axle rear end......which could lead to lift off oversteer, as the wheels went to positive camber....which could result in making holes in hedges....needed an element of 'driver skill'...which far too many new drivers back then, and since, cannot even remotely lay claim to....[nor do they seem to want to find out, either!!]....despite said drivers still thinking they are truly expert at that skill.

 

Thus, skoda was relegated to the'skip' group..along with Polski Fiat, Lada, Reliant, etc.  [People forget Porsche actively cooperated with skoda back in the early 1970's to produce a small capacity sports coupe.....Porsche no doubt considering the skills of the Skoda engineers to be superior to those of any other maker?...Poor old Porsche....they never ever picked the 'right' side, did they?.....No doubt political pressure of the day meant, they had to eventually co-operate with that bunch of milk float makers, Audi, to end up with the 914?]

 

Skoda, believe it or not, used engineers to design their cars......[unlike many others??].....with the result that.......within certain limitations, the skodas were 'set-up' to drive like competition cars right from the start....the gearing especially, chosen so that the engine , in top gear, achieved peak power...at the car's max speed.  A characteristic most racing drivers try to achieve when sorting the gearing of the  cars...sod all this over-gearing stuff for cruising.....lets just belt off up the road?

 

A skoda, driven enthusiastically, is incredible fun to drive [if not particularly economical?]......

 

Autocar gave a very favourable road test report on the Skoda Rapid Coupe (basically a 130 with a 2-door coupe body), comparing it to the rear-engined Porsches of the day. Mind you, they said the same about the little Suzuki SC100 "Whiz-Kid" and what became of that?

 

Ed

[PatB]

Simple answer to lift-off oversteer is not to lift off. I learned that particular "skill" from driving a staggeringly vicious homebuilt sidecar outfit which would invert itself into the outside ditch if you backed off even slightly in a left-hander. This stood me in good stead for the Beetle I was later to own which, with its torquey engine, skinny tyres and direct steering, was huge fun to drive hard but wasn't terribly forgiving of the faint of heart.

[Horsetan]

Autocar gave a very favourable road test report on the Skoda Rapid Coupe (basically a 130 with a 2-door coupe body), comparing it to the rear-engined Porsches of the day....

"Two thirds of a Porsche", I remember.

[alastairq]

 

 

 Mind you, they said the same about the little Suzuki SC100 "Whiz-Kid" and what became of that?

 

Such a pity the bodywork was made of such thin steel.....and the interior really didn't suit overgrown folk.

 

I recall going with wife#1 to Hedon to see one of these with a view to a purchase.

 

Wife #1 quite liked the appeal, if not the absence of any real rear seats....I, on the other hand, took no interest whatsoever, as the dealer had a few SJ80 jeeps in stock as well...and these little beasties captured all my attention!!

[peanuts]

Autocar gave a very favourable road test report on the Skoda Rapid Coupe (basically a 130 with a 2-door coupe body), comparing it to the rear-engined Porsches of the day. Mind you, they said the same about the little Suzuki SC100 "Whiz-Kid" and what became of that?

 

Ed

i was lucky enough to get my hands on a very cheap 136 engine on carb (the latter ones were fuel injected ) got hold of a janspeed manifold to allow twin 45 webber downdrafts couple that with a slightly wilder cam dropped it into my 130 L saloon lump of flat bottom rail under the bonnet (to keep the nose down ) and i had a fantastic little street sleeper .won many a traffic light grandprix against various gti/gte/and XRs much to their surprise and embarrassment .was able to easily hit 120 on the motorway great car petty the tin worm got to the swing arm mounts 

[RANGERS]

To my mind Estelle and the 110 before it were always based on the blue print of the Beetle, albeit water cooled. Soundly enough engineered, born out of circumstance with limited resource, but built to a price which destroyed their credibility and with it any real comparison with the Beetle.

 

The one thing they did have in common was simple mechanicals which a trained chimp could probably look after, except for the clutch and accelerator cables which equally evil jobs on both I believe. I only tackled the Beetle which was evil, took me less time to do the clutch than it did to change the cable!

[Catweasel]

Who remembers Skoda's on the RAC Rally? The real one that is. Won their class more times that you could shake a stick at. Another area they were good at was trials like the London/Lands End. Rear engine,good torque and good traction.And the Skoda Rapide was a cracking car. Slow in, fast out. Just don't change your mind halfway through! 

[Oldddudders]

ISTR Car & Car Abortions magazine took a Marina TC Coupe to a track - Snetterton? - and pronounced its handling and roadholding qualities to be analogous to a 'pregnant elephant on ballet shoes'.

[alastairq]

To my mind Estelle and the 110 before it were always based on the blue print of the Beetle, albeit water cooled. Soundly enough engineered, born out of circumstance with limited resource, but built to a price which destroyed their credibility and with it any real comparison with the Beetle.

 

The one thing they did have in common was simple mechanicals which a trained chimp could probably look after, except for the clutch and accelerator cables which equally evil jobs on both I believe. I only tackled the Beetle which was evil, took me less time to do the clutch than it did to change the cable!

 

 

Actually, no, the Skodas were not based on, or even inspired by, the VW beetle.

 

[skoda..and its former name, LAurin & Klement..who built cars to rival Rolls Royce......pre-dates not only VW, but Porsche, and pretty much every other car manufacturer going today!]

 

The Skoda 'chassis'...[ for they didn't have one, being monocoque, unlike the beetle, which had a pan chassis]....did not have torsion bar suspension...rater, coil springs up front, and coils at the rear.  

 

The swing axle rear suspension was a quite common method of providing independant rear suspension, at the time. VW beetles had it, but so did Triumphs [herald & spitfire]....FIAT, Renault, Tatra and many, many others.

 

Where Skoda leapt ahead of the likes of VW, Renault, etc was in the design and use of aluminium for the engine & transmission.  This overcame the inherent problem of a rear engined vehicle, that of, extreme weight behind the back axle.

 

Rootes developed a significantly lighter engine for the Imp [based upon the Coventry Climax SOHC engine]....and the Skoda [rear] engine was second only to that, in lightness.

 

The VW aircooled beetle engine was significant in its very short length, using the boxer cylinder layout...thus reducing excessive rear overhung  weight. It had other issues, however..[its apparent longevity & reliability down to nothing more than, in standard form, it was entirely under stressed...the 1600cc version pushing out no more power than a Ford 1100cc motor!    Tune & stress a VW aircooled, and one enters a whole new world of unreliability!!!   Believe me, I know!!  Porsche had to seriously re-design the flat 4 concept to produce even reasonable power,without continually busting things....even the Porsche 1600 cc flat 4 engine wasn't what one would call, 'super powerful'!!]

 

Skoda overcame the swing axle issues by changing to  a 'semi-trailing arm' rear suspension setup. This was introduced [i believe] in the Rapid coupe [ a 2 door estele, not as versatile]...which brought formula 1 grand prix suspension to the cheap car world.

 

Skoda even were the first [?} to fit, as a production item, 4-pot caliper disc brakes to the Rapid...[to homologate them for the rally cars]...

 

Once the new design rear suspension came into play, the press loved the cars....Later [mid 1980's] the engine became all alloy [the earlier ones had an iron head]....the 136 motors....which also gained 8 port cylinder heads.  There are varying  degrees of support as to whether this engine was able to produce more power reliably, compared to the 5 port, iron head 1300 [the 130 engine]...issues centring on valve gear, head gaskets, etc. personally, having built a 130, using a swan neck manifold and sidedraught 40 DCOE Weber, I found the earlier engine produced better bottom end power than my current [but idle] 136 motor with its bike carb set-up. MAybe the passage of time dims my memory?

 

The 136 engine eventually went into Skoda's first FWD car, the Favorit....which essentially was pre-VW in every aspect.....and a very good car it was, too...certainly compared to everything else on the market.

 

When VW[VAG]'s tendrils eventually penetrated the darkest corners of Skoda...there came the Felicia [which shared a shell with the Polo]..probably the best car VAG ever made, IMHO? {from a 'driver's point-of-view].....the old 136 motor, now with 4 point fuel injection,modern ignition and an ecu...was retained, as, within the VAG group, there wasn't a 'small'...as inm, 1300cc, engine anything like as light as the 136.....therefore the car was far better balanced than the other VW range.....spoilt when VW planted their own 1.6 petrol and  heavy diesel lump into the Felicia to please the non-cognoscenti market.

 

For owners of rear engined skodas, the 136 motor is  a cheap tuning conversion in its own right...with modest alterations, the FWD engine [which eventually went into the FAbia, as the 1.4....Skoda engineers warned VW engineers not to increase the capacity, due to flexing of the alloy block...VW ignored them, as they do....and ended up having to design an incredible alloy webbed casting, to keep the main bearings in line...1.3 was a limit Skoda arrived at very carefully.]

 

Back in 'the day'....for a modified cylinder head, one sent one's article off to a noted tuner or two [blydenstein did some, I believe?]....for gas flowing, valves, etc.......however, to make the 136 more efficient, in the FWD cars...Skoda basically 'copied' what had been done before by tuners...so, these days, for one's Rapid/estelle, with its 136 motor, one blaggs a freebie Felicia cylinder head....!  In fact, why not blag the enter Felicia 136 engine,complete with fuel injection?  More power,with reliability?

 

Mechanically, the skoda rear engined cars were not exactly simple....but...unlike their competitors, consideration had to be given to how the home market worked......these cars had to be designed to be mended & maintained by the roadside, or in a car park.

 

Thus,virtually every component or system could be stripped down to its component parts.  essentially nothing could not be repaired....unlike the competitors, and today's cars....where, if a major component like a starter motor busts, it's a complete replacement jobbie, not a 'strip & repair'...Everything was put together with screws,nuts and bolts on a Skoda.

 

What let Skodas down, IMHO, was the quality of the ancillary components...especially the electrics, made by PAL...[who sub contracted to Lucas, which might explain a lot?}...but then, Skoda had little choice when it came to outside contractors.

 

The throttle cable is very easy to replace, just incredibly long!....the clutch is hydraulic, all adjusted from inside the car [there is an access hatch under the rear seats]...same with the speedo cable.

 

The engine is incredibly easy to remove, using a trolley jack and a few blocks of wood......simply, remove the rear body panel.....support engine on trolley jack, undo cross member, support on wood blocks, disconnect services, and gearbox, take the weight, and wheel it out...did that outside a hotel in Babbacombe once, to replace a burgered clutch!

 

It helps to re-do the fuel tank balance pipe, then one can easily drop the transmission as well.  All my skodas had their fuel tanks shifted up front.....to make maintenance even more easy. The rally folk did that to improve front-to-rear weight distribution...not something I was worried about when trialling..preferring everything to be at the back! But...the car had to be easily mendable when major items went bang....so that I could drive to work in it on a Monday!

 

The enter front axle/suspension was easily detachable as a unit too...simply disconnect steering column [at its U/J]...undo brake pipes, undo shocker tops, place jack, lift car, prop up, and lower front cross member, wheel to one side, play about with to one's heart's content!

 

I have re-built an engine in the work car park [good old East Yorkshire..]..that is, new cylinder liners, pistons rings, etc....with the engine still in the car....also won the bet as to how I would be getting home that evening!

 

Skodas these days are a differnt beast altogether.....as are nearly all cars.

 

Most of the youngsters I come across now, don't even now what a dipstick is, let alone, where it is.   A car is a means of comfortably getting around, and looking good..endex!  A driving licence is purely a travel pass....nothing more!

 

A genuine, oily handed young motor enthusiast is an exception these days, not the rule.  The furthest most get with regards to repair & modification is, the online catalogue!  

Edited November 22, 2015 by alastairq

[keefr2]

Who remembers Skoda's on the RAC Rally? The real one that is. Won their class more times that you could shake a stick at. Another area they were good at was trials like the London/Lands End. Rear engine,good torque and good traction.And the Skoda Rapide was a cracking car. Slow in, fast out. Just don't change your mind halfway through!

Well remember John Haugland driving one like he'd stolen it! Magic to watch!

 

I always loved watching - & driving - lower capacity rally cars, because of the sheer commitment needed to get anywhere quckly! One of my favourite Mk1 Escorts was a 1300 GT with just over 90 brake from its motor, it was tremendous fun with its sorted suspension & hardly ever needed brake pads changing! I would actually prefer to have that now than my last, almost full works spec, 2 litre Mk2....