For those interested in old cars.

[keefr2]

Don't forget the Xsara Picasso. In 30 years time, we'll all want one. Future classic... you heard it here first!

 

Not when I'm 91 I won't! Especially if I had to pump that tyre up....!!

[peanuts]

some on here may find these interesting https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fstr%2FVixar-Personalised%3F_trksid%3Dp2047675.l2563&h=ATN-yk4T6D_vAHs6XZNVXDxEfvBd-M6HZEUzxO9keSZdzkG6GrjYkfxoPjCL432ugE1UgQg_paBCFKVHl-00_BqbAiJ-7ugCoDv0g8NHASxmMjKWWug

[Horsetan]

Don't forget the Xsara Picasso. In 30 years time, we'll all want one. Future classic... you heard it here first!

Er....who's "we"?

[Rugd1022]

Meanwhile, at Brodie Engineering just now....

 

IMG_20180601_134114.jpg

 

Calling "rugd1022" to the oleopneumatic phone. That's "rugd1022" to the oleopneumatic phone. Thank you.

 

To replace a CX gearbox will cost £900 in labour charges alone!!!

 

I can't bear to look..... last night I watched a newly arrived package from Amazon, a two hour documentary on '70s Italian crime films, the title sequence features a nearly new SM being blown to bits!

[Horsetan]

I can't bear to look..... 

 

You may wish to know that the black SM at Brodie's is for sale.....

[stewartingram]

Er....who's "we"?

 

Mmmm….is this the right thread for this?

 

 

 

Stewart   

[johnlambert]

Don't forget the Xsara Picasso. In 30 years time, we'll all want one. Future classic... you heard it here first!

I generally like Citroens, particularly those that have oleo-pneumatic suspension and/or air-cooled engines.

 

The Citroen Xsara Picasso was one of the worst cars I've ever driven.  Truly a dreadful machine, I didn't think it was even good at carrying people.  The rear seat was a barely tolerable perch for a few miles and not somewhere I'd want to be for any length of time; and the height of the seats actually seemed to hinder rather than ease access.  I presume they sold purely because they were cheap.

[Horsetan]

....I presume they sold purely because they were cheap.

 

There are some who say that Peugeot have generally looked on Citroen as the poor relation since taking them over in the mid-'70s.

[Silver Sidelines]

We had a a Xantia - I think one if the best cars we have owned. I have even thought of buying another old one.....but the suspension.  We also had a an early Xsara - not the Picasso and not really very good.  As a family we had a couple of C3s, the first model.  They did what they said on the box but really rather flimsy.  We also had two C5s, series one and two.  The series two was a big car and whilst I did not like its looks it was fast and very very comfortable.  Dealerships change and we have moved to Vauxhall.  Nothing wrong with our Corsa or Insignia perhaps lacking the magic of the Citroen.  We wait to see what happens under Peugeot!! (Been there before with 405s, 205s and 306s).

Ray

[Fat Controller]

I generally like Citroens, particularly those that have oleo-pneumatic suspension and/or air-cooled engines.

 

The Citroen Xsara Picasso was one of the worst cars I've ever driven.  Truly a dreadful machine, I didn't think it was even good at carrying people.  The rear seat was a barely tolerable perch for a few miles and not somewhere I'd want to be for any length of time; and the height of the seats actually seemed to hinder rather than ease access.  I presume they sold purely because they were cheap.

We had a Picasso for 16 years and 180 000 miles. I loved driving the machine; on its first outing, we drove to Tuscany over two days (about 500 miles each day). The main reason we went for it in the first place was that the virtual absence of cills made getting ageing mothers in and out very easy. We replaced it with a Cactus; nice drive, but nowhere near as capacious. 

[New Haven Neil]

Mrs NHN has a Picasso 2.0 D, 170,000 miles currently, and still in good condition.  No sports car, but it has been reliable, economical and a great load lugger -  especially if you take the back seats out.  Never had a complaint about the back seats from those who have travelled on them.  You do know the backs are adjustable, right?  Ours has aftermarket leather, but that shouldn't have made much difference.

[APOLLO]

I've had 5 Citroens, consecutively from 1998 to 2003, all were company cars.

 

1 Xantia diesel - lovely car to drive. not one fault

 

2. Synergy diesel, twin sunroof, one electric - again lovely car to drive. not one fault

 

3. Synergy diesel, single electric sunroof - again lovely car to drive, not one fault

 

4. Synergy HD diesel, single electric sunroof - again lovely car to drive. one fault, blown instrument bulb (there was only one) - a new cluster was fitted as bulb not replaceable, £200, done under warranty.

 

5. Picasso 1.6 petrol. Not a bad car but missed the Synergys !!. Had this for 2 years, again not one fault.

 

Was I lucky ?. I enjoyed all my company Citroens back then.

 

Two Peugeot 405's preceded them, both diesels, first was a GL non turbo did 50mpg, second was a Turbo GXLGT but only did 30 odd MPG. The Synergy HD turbo was quite good at around 45mpg.

 

I wouldn't touch a frog (or any) diesel car with my own money these days - too many horror stories re electronics, DPF's, EGR's etc.

 

Brit15

 

 

 

 

[New Haven Neil]

The 2L HDi Picasso does 55 mpg.  As for horror stories - google Ford Powershift auto boxes - as in current Fiestas etc.  I needed an auto after my accident, got a Hyundai!

 

Back to old cars - Ivan, does your CX transmission need replacement?  Concerning post you made there.....

[PhilJ W]

The 2L HDi Picasso does 55 mpg.  As for horror stories - google Ford Powershift auto boxes - as in current Fiestas etc.  I needed an auto after my accident, got a Hyundai!

 

Back to old cars - Ivan, does your CX transmission need replacement?  Concerning post you made there.....

Even early Hyundais are getting rare nowadays, partly because like many 80's cars they were caught up in the scrappage scheme. A few months ago I espied a Hyundai Pony pick-up on E-bay, the asking price was £20,000! Mind you that had been restored better than new and it was being sold by a dealer.

[Horsetan]

...., does your CX transmission need replacement? Concerning post you made there.....

I had a discussion with the head honcho at Brodie's and explained the symptoms about the slipping I've been experiencing. His first comment was "very low fluid level". I said that the box had already swallowed 2ltr of Dexron III, and that I suspected I might have overfilled it. He asked about the fluid colour. When I said it appeared clear on the dipstick rather than red, he said that as long as it wasn't black, there was hope.

 

He reckoned it was better to have too much fluid in there rather than too little, so thought there wouldn't be any harm in pouring in a third litre of Dexron III. All this time we were surrounded by endless shelves of random DS/SM/CX/Maser spare parts. He then picked up a bottle of Lucas Transmission Fix, at which point I said I'd already poured in a half bottle of it, with little apparent effect. He said to pour in the rest of it.

 

Changing the fluid is not a problem, but changing the filter is, as the engine and box have to be dropped to get at the filter. The beauty of French avantgarde design.

 

The other anecdote he passed on was that CX autoboxes are entirely random in their lifespan once they reach 100,000 miles. You might get another 100,000 miles.....or you might only get 10. This is completely different to all the magazine reviews which reckon the ZF 3HP22 is durable to the point of being bulletproof.

 

I forgot to tell him about the possible blow in an exhaust section because I could feel heat coming from under the driver's door the last time I drove it.

 

It's possible Brodie's might take the CX in to have a look next week, but they are very busy with limited parking space because everyone is bringing their cars out for the show season. It may well be the week after. In the meantime I've just got to keep driving it when I can. Currently the battery is being recharged as I haven't driven it for over two weeks!!

 

By the way, the owner of the SM I spotted in Warwick Avenue on Bank Holiday Monday also owns two DS Chapron Décapotible replicas (one of which I've seen before). Brodie knows all the cars, and that SM is coming in next week for attention.....

Edited June 3, 2018 by Horsetan

[Jol Wilkinson]

There are some who say that Peugeot have generally looked on Citroen as the poor relation since taking them over in the mid-'70s.

Within PSA, the three brands (I exclude Opel and Vauxhall at this time) are marketed in different market sectors. Citroen (despite it's history) is the "base" brand, Peugeot more upmarket, while DS are the top of the PSA tree. Nowadays, with common "platforms" it is largely the  bodywork and styling that are the differences, e.g.. Audi TT/VW Golf.

 

This distinction between Citroen and Peugeot goes back a long way, certainly into the eighties when I started with Peugeot UK.

 

I've had 5 Citroens, consecutively from 1998 to 2003, all were company cars.

 

1 Xantia diesel - lovely car to drive. not one fault

 

2. Synergy diesel, twin sunroof, one electric - again lovely car to drive. not one fault

 

3. Synergy diesel, single electric sunroof - again lovely car to drive, not one fault

 

4. Synergy HD diesel, single electric sunroof - again lovely car to drive. one fault, blown instrument bulb (there was only one) - a new cluster was fitted as bulb not replaceable, £200, done under warranty.

 

5. Picasso 1.6 petrol. Not a bad car but missed the Synergys !!. Had this for 2 years, again not one fault.

 

Was I lucky ?. I enjoyed all my company Citroens back then.

 

Two Peugeot 405's preceded them, both diesels, first was a GL non turbo did 50mpg, second was a Turbo GXLGT but only did 30 odd MPG. The Synergy HD turbo was quite good at around 45mpg.

 

I wouldn't touch a frog (or any) diesel car with my own money these days - too many horror stories re electronics, DPF's, EGR's etc.

 

Brit15

 

The European Motor Industry uses many common OE systems from the likes of Bosch, Magnetti Marelli, etc. so different makes of vehicles may suffer from similar issues. I've driven diesel cars for the last thirty years or so, and have never suffered a problem with the fuel/exhaust/emission systems. Despite doing a far number of short trips we also do at least one journey each week that gets the car up to temperature for long distances and also requires the occasional WOT, which helps keep everything cleaned out. 

[Jol Wilkinson]

I had a discussion with the head honcho at Brodie's and explained the symptoms about the slipping I've been experiencing. His first comment was "very low fluid level". I said that the box had already swallowed 2ltr of Dexron III, and that I suspected I might have overfilled it. He asked about the fluid colour. When I said it appeared clear on the dipstick rather than red, he said that as long as it wasn't black, there was hope.

 

He reckoned it was better to have too much fluid in there rather than too little, so thought there wouldn't be any harm in pouring in a third litre of Dexron III. All this time we were surrounded by endless shelves of random DS/SM/CX/Maser spare parts. He then picked up a bottle of Lucas Transmission Fix, at which point I said I'd already poured in a half bottle of it, with little apparent effect. He said to pour in the rest of it.

 

Changing the fluid is not a problem, but changing the filter is, as the engine and box have to be dropped to get at the filter. The beauty of French avantgarde design.

 

The other anecdote he passed on was that CX autoboxes are entirely random in their lifespan once they reach 100,000 miles. You might get another 100,000 miles.....or you might only get 10. This is completely different to all the magazine reviews which reckon the ZF 3HP22 is durable to the point of being bulletproof.

 

I forgot to tell him about the possible blow in an exhaust section because I could feel heat coming from under the driver's door the last time I drove it.

 

It's possible Brodie's might take the CX in to have a look next week, but they are very busy with limited parking space because everyone is bringing their cars out for the show season. It may well be the week after. In the meantime I've just got to keep driving it when I can. Currently the battery is being recharged as I haven't driven it for over two weeks!!

 

By the way, the owner of the SM I spotted in Warwick Avenue on Bank Holiday Money also owns two DS Chapron Décapotible replicas (one of which I've seen before). Brodie knows all the cars, and that SM is coming in next week for attention.....

 

One risk of overfilling autos is the risk of transmission fluid expansion and blow out from the breather. Or at least it used to be in Borg Warner Type 35's.fitted to Ford Mk 4 Zodiacs.

[Owd Bob]

Spotted a few interesting old cars at a local show near Chorley yesterday, the '57 F type Victor is one of only 14 left in the UK and this one is the very last one to have been built on the first day of the models production.

 There was no info on this Mk3 Cortina pick-up so i was unsure whether its a later P100 pick-up with a mk3 front grafted on or the reverse? or even an original version...which i doubt...unless imported from Oz? Nice vehicle all the same. 

This Willam micro van made the mini van by its side look big!

This Hillman badged car looked like a big kit car from a distance with its new canvas roof standing out a mile.

And here's few more less rare vehicles.

These S2 Landy Ambulances make good campers.

 

 

[Horsetan]

One risk of overfilling autos is the risk of transmission fluid expansion and blow out from the breather. Or at least it used to be in Borg Warner Type 35's.fitted to Ford Mk 4 Zodiacs.

It happened to me once in the 635 (another ZF auto). After that it was alright.

[PhilJ W]

The Mk. III Cortina pick up is genuine. They were made in South Africa but not imported until the Mk. IV.

[Southern Steve]

Please stop knocking Pugs, we' had a !993 106 950 that had done 160,000 miles when we got it.

 

 

Both our kids learn't to drive in it and then used it as a station hack. 

 

 

It finally succumbed to rot on the rear floorpan, but was still running sweetly on the original engine at 247,000 miles!

 

 

 

Also had 3 405 estates, fabulous reliable, comfortable cars.

 

 

Here's our my current 405 Executive TD estate. Full leather, heated seats,cruise control, headlamp washers, 50+  mpg if yr sensible...………….

 

 

 

 

[BernardTPM]

Within PSA, the three brands are marketed in different market sectors. Citroen (despite it's history) is the "base" brand, Peugeot more upmarket, while DS are the top of the PSA tree. Nowadays, with common "platforms" it is largely the  bodywork and styling that are the differences

 

This distinction between Citroen and Peugeot goes back a long way, certainly into the eighties when I started with Peugeot UK.

But there was no 'DS' marque in the 1980s, so how did it work then? I can't imagine a Citroen CX being thought of as 'cheaper/inferior' to a Pug 505, or even the 604.

[Jol Wilkinson]

But there was no 'DS' marque in the 1980s, so how did it work then? I can't imagine a Citroen CX being thought of as 'cheaper/inferior' to a Pug 505, or even the 604.

 

Probably not in France but I don't think it was a strong seller in the UK, but neither were 605's or 607's . The UK market decided that only the Germans could make acceptable big cars, so almost anything from France, Italy, UK (except JLR), Japan, etc. was pretty much doomed here. The DS marque is struggling worldwide, but PSA recognises it will take some time to establish it fully as a more upmarket brand.

[Jenny Emily]

I have been having an issue with my Volvo since it went back on the road. The symptoms were that the idle speed would waver between 900rpm and 1100rpm when it should sit rigidly at around 850rpm. The engine would also run ever so slightly rough on idle. A blip on the throttle would tend to fix it, but it would soon return to its old tricks after driving. It was also clear that the idle speed would tend to remain around 1100rpm when coasting in gear on the overrun resulting in the car feeling like it was not slowing as it should. The idling exhaust also smelt a little petrolly.

I dismantled the air inlet manifold and filter box back to the throttle body to check what might be the cause. All pipes seemed sound and seated with no cracks. The butterfly valve was moving freely and was fully shutting without issue. There was no débris to block it ajar. The PCV system is working fine and is not introducing crud into the throttle body.

With no obvious issues I reassembled everything, lubricating the butterfly valve as well as throttle linkage and return wheel just to be on the safe side. Upon reassembling it the thought did occur to me that the jubilee clips on the flexible hose between the air filter box and throttle hadn't been as tight as perhaps they could. So on reinstalling I made doubly sure that they were properly seated and really tightened up good. I also ran a bead of engine oil around the rim just to make sure that there were no minute gaps that air could enter through.

On restarting it appears the issue might be fixed. A short drive showed that all the symptoms had disappeared. I'm not exactly sure what I did, but I suspect it was, after all, a vacuum leak past the jubilee clips on the flexible hoses. This would have introduced a small amount of unmetered air that had not been detected by the MAF sensor and was therefore causing strange symptoms with the idle speed control valve.

Do the symptoms sound like they fit with the fix and educated guess as to what was causing it? Or am I in for the annoyance of a disappear-reappear fault that will be all but impossible to track down?
 

[Southern Steve]

It's the same as "Lexus" aka Toyota "Infiniti" aka Nissan etc, etc.

 

BMC/Rootes were derided for "badge engineering" in the 50's and 60's, it's the same thing.