For those interested in old cars.

[PhilJ W]

 

44 minutes ago, Kickstart said:

Could be worse. In the desert the Italians had so many captured 25pdrs that they produced ammunition themselves.

 

All the best

 

Katy

The Germans also captured so many British 4.5 inch AA guns at Dunkirk that they also produced ammunition for them. Some times soldiers from both sides preferred captured enemy equipment to that provided by their own quartermasters, the classic example is the jerrycan that was so superior to those used by the allies that the allies copied them. I could compose a list of a lot of wartime equipment and vehicles that were 'desired' by the other side. 

[John Harris]

2 minutes ago, PhilJ W said:

 

The Germans also captured so many British 4.5 inch AA guns at Dunkirk that they also produced ammunition for them. Some times soldiers from both sides preferred captured enemy equipment to that provided by their own quartermasters, the classic example is the jerrycan that was so superior to those used by the allies that the allies copied them. I could compose a list of a lot of wartime equipment and vehicles that were 'desired' by the other side. 

 

The Italians copied the Daimler Dingo, the Lancia Lince, which was also used by the Germans.

 

The reverse was also true, the Bedford Traclat was a copy of German ¾ track vehicles.

 

One survived into civilian use post-war.

 

jch

[MrWolf]

I'm not saying that they didn't, only recently a Russian T34 tank has been recovered, still bearing German markings. A number of BSA M20 motorcycles have been recovered that were dumped by the British in France, used by the Germans in Russia, captured by the Russians, dumped at the end of the war in Poland and liberated by civilians. The many layers of paint gave that away.

Film makers, especially low budget ones, use anything they can get. Often even postwar Soviet bloc equipment. 

Where they did get it right was with some of the half tracks. These were built by Skoda / Tatra for the Germans during the war and postwar for the Soviet forces. It only required a few modifications to turn back the clock on these machines, which IIRC, could be had for around £3500 in the 1990s.

 

[Kickstart]

I have an interesting book on the German use of captured T34s.They recovered enough to seriously considered a standardised upgrade package to bring them more into line with German requirements

 

All the best

 

Katy

[PhilJ W]

When the Ford model AA truck was replaced by the model BB in 1931 the entire production line was sold to the USSR who continued production as the GAZ AA. There were several production lines around the world but the one sold to the Russians was from the Ford plant in Germany. The GAZ AA was the principle Russian transport vehicle before during and after the war.

[PhilJ W]

8 hours ago, PhilJ W said:

I recall a newsreel film of the German attack on Russia with the Germans riding on Bedford trucks. In fact at the beginning of the war the Germans relied heavily on horse transport. 

 

7 hours ago, alastairq said:

  I seem to recall they were captured Russian Army vehicles, which had been shipped to Russia by GB...

The film was of the initial attack on Russia which up until that time was neutral. The supply of trucks under lend lease came later and was mostly CMP types.

[Northmoor]

I seem to remember at the end of Gulf War One, enormous numbers of British/American/other non-armoured vehicles were left behind in the desert, as they had had only minimal maintenance or were damaged during the war and were effectively life-expired.  It would have cost more to ship them back to the UK/USA/wherever than they were worth (and would need to be replaced anyway), so they were simply abandoned.

[MrWolf]

There's an awful lot of aircraft and helicopters that have been tipped over the side of aircraft carriers for the same reason.

I also remember Russian seamen buying up scrap Ladas in the 90s, stripping them down on the decks of freighters for parts and dumping the body shells in the North sea.

[boxbrownie]

3 hours ago, Kickstart said:

Half of an armies vehicles being able to be put back into service is a massive number. While some would have been destrotyed by being used as part of impromtu jetties, most were probably fairly rapidly disabled (eg, drain the oil and leave running) and mechanically simple enough that given time easily fixed with readily manufactured parts (worthwhile in quantities like that).

 

Could be worse. In the desert the Italians had so many captured 25pdrs that they produced ammunition themselves.

 

All the best

 

Katy

One of my Uncles who was at Dunkirk told me when I was a nipper all the stories and one I remember (as I was always interested in cars and stuff) he told me the trucks and jeeps left behind they drained the oil from the sumps and run them with a brick on the pedal and let me do their thing, his description of some of the resulting noises was difficult for me to understand as he used language I hadn’t heard before 

 

 

I think the obvious stuff like puncturing the tyres etc was standard practice, which made me think about the stuff we left behind in Afghan, puncture proof tyres….oops!

[PhilJ W]

The Russians copied both American and German vehicles. The Studebaker 2.5 ton truck and the BMW sidecar drive (2X3) motorcycle were produced (or copies thereof) until the 1960's.

[petethemole]

A lot of Bedford trucks were left behind at Dunkirk.  Sabotaged or not the Germans had a supply of parts from Opel.  Only the other night I saw a clip of Wehrmacht vehicles stuck in the Russian autumn mud in 1941; one was a Morris Quad FAT.  Nobody had jeeps at Dunkirk.  The Afrika Korps and Eighth Army in North Africa both used each others vehicles.  Rommel's command vehicle was an AEC Dorchester called 'Mammut'.  An Australian armoured unit was equipped with captured Italian medium tanks.

[steve1]

I don't wish to prolong this off thread diversion but, surely, the use of captured equipment has happened since Ugg took Uggy's club after he he'd killed him in a 'war' over hunting grounds?

 

The Viet Cong 'repurposed' plenty of US vehicles in that conflict too.

 

steve

[boxbrownie]

38 minutes ago, petethemole said:

A lot of Bedford trucks were left behind at Dunkirk.  Sabotaged or not the Germans had a supply of parts from Opel.  Only the other night I saw a clip of Wehrmacht vehicles stuck in the Russian autumn mud in 1941; one was a Morris Quad FAT.  Nobody had jeeps at Dunkirk.  The Afrika Korps and Eighth Army in North Africa both used each others vehicles.  Rommel's command vehicle was an AEC Dorchester called 'Mammut'.  An Australian armoured unit was equipped with captured Italian medium tanks.

It was our jeep equivalent….I suppose the Austin Champ….

[petethemole]

14 minutes ago, boxbrownie said:

It was our jeep equivalent….I suppose the Austin Champ….

A post-war vehicle inspired by the Jeep, first produced in 1951.  The 1939-40 British equivalent to the Jeep was the 'Tilly' or utility, a 4x2 pickup based on a car chassis (incuding Standard, Austin, Morris and Hillman) without the cross-country capability of a 4X4.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tilly_(vehicle)#/media/File:The_Women's_Auxiliary_Air_Force_,_1939-1945._CH8331.jpg

[PhilJ W]

5 hours ago, petethemole said:

A lot of Bedford trucks were left behind at Dunkirk.  Sabotaged or not the Germans had a supply of parts from Opel.  Only the other night I saw a clip of Wehrmacht vehicles stuck in the Russian autumn mud in 1941; one was a Morris Quad FAT.  Nobody had jeeps at Dunkirk.  The Afrika Korps and Eighth Army in North Africa both used each others vehicles.  Rommel's command vehicle was an AEC Dorchester called 'Mammut'.  An Australian armoured unit was equipped with captured Italian medium tanks.

The Afrika Korps and Eighth army even used captured items of uniform such as trousers and boots. Some 'enemy' equipment was preferred to their own equipment, the AEC Matador was a favourite prize with German units.

[boxbrownie]

14 hours ago, petethemole said:

A post-war vehicle inspired by the Jeep, first produced in 1951.  The 1939-40 British equivalent to the Jeep was the 'Tilly' or utility, a 4x2 pickup based on a car chassis (incuding Standard, Austin, Morris and Hillman) without the cross-country capability of a 4X4.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tilly_(vehicle)#/media/File:The_Women's_Auxiliary_Air_Force_,_1939-1945._CH8331.jpg

Well…those then 

[RJS1977]

17 hours ago, PhilJ W said:

When the Ford model AA truck was replaced by the model BB in 1931 the entire production line was sold to the USSR who continued production as the GAZ AA. There were several production lines around the world but the one sold to the Russians was from the Ford plant in Germany. The GAZ AA was the principle Russian transport vehicle before during and after the war.

 Intriguingly, the only BB truck now known to survive is the one driven by Corporal Jones in Dad's Army!

[RJS1977]

10 hours ago, PhilJ W said:

The Afrika Korps and Eighth army even used captured items of uniform such as trousers and boots. Some 'enemy' equipment was preferred to their own equipment, the AEC Matador was a favourite prize with German units.

 

And the Germans also repurposed a number of 'Dean Goods' that were left behind at Dunkirk, one making it to Russia, and another to Austria!

[RJS1977]

16 hours ago, MrWolf said:

There's an awful lot of aircraft and helicopters that have been tipped over the side of aircraft carriers for the same reason.

 

 

The helicopters that were famously tipped over the side when the Americans left Vietnam were serviceable ones that were ditched owing to the need to land more helicopters on the deck, given the rapid evacuation. 

[Hobby]

17 minutes ago, RJS1977 said:

 Intriguingly, the only BB truck now known to survive is the one driven by Corporal Jones in Dad's Army!

 

In the UK? Certainly there are others around as a quick search reveals!

[RJS1977]

4 minutes ago, Hobby said:

 

In the UK? Certainly there are others around as a quick search reveals!

 

I remember seeing a 'Ford Model A Register' a while back which I believed listed all the known surviving model As and their derivatives, and BUC852 was the only BB truck listed. However I can't remember know whether this was just a European list or worldwide.

[PhilJ W]

Possibly UK only. There's certainly more in the US and I seem to recall a French fire engine based on one.

[Hobby]

It's certainly not worldwide, as I said if you do a search it shows one that was sold in the USA at a Bonhams auction. I can't believe that more aren't around, though!

[Hobby]

UK list of AA and BBs:

 

https://www.mafcgb.org.uk/list-of-as-and-bs-known-in-uk/list-of-ford-model-a-and-b-commercial-vehicles/

[PhilJ W]

I noticed that the Dads Army one is listed as a flatbed not a van. IIRC the van body was actually a studio prop but is now a permanent attachment to the vehicle. (Part of the Dads Army museum.)