Wheatley Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 (edited) But is it £11 better than the Dapol version when it still has faults. There's faults and faults. The Dapol/Dublo one is a caricature at best - too short,crude, and solid where it shouldn't be (granted it was light years ahead when it first appeared). If the Bachmann one is dimensionally accurate I'm happy with thinning out a few bits and adding a couple of others which the injection moulding process can't cope with. As for the handrails - we don't expect separate door handles on 12 ton vans (for example) so I think it's a little unfair to expect them on this. If they were massively prominent grab rails such as those on brake vans or 21t coal hoppers that would be different, but they're not. YMMV of course, but I only need one or two so I'll probably buy them. Edited March 2, 2015 by Wheatley Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 Having had a very good look at these yesterday my opinion is that the issues noted are not that glaring in real life. The overlapped welded seam which forms the roof joint looks cruel in the images but isn't that offensive when viewed at normal range. Likewise the fillet behind the angle iron, which is necessary for moulding and durability reasons, can only be seen from a close-up three-quarter angle; from a side view it's not noticeable at all. Are they worth the price? That's for an individual to decide but the only superior ones I have seen have been scratchbuilt by experienced modellers. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porcy Mane Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 Thanks for the heads up Andy. Looks like Bachmann are getting better at modelling buffers. If only they'd fitted the Grain Oleos to the Presflo... P Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Enterprisingwestern Posted March 3, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 3, 2015 Thanks for the heads up Andy. Looks like Bachmann are getting better at modelling buffers. If only they'd fitted the Grain Oleos to the Presflo... P But then Dave Franks would be redundant! Mike. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porcy Mane Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 But then Dave Franks would be redundant! Fiona would soon have a pinny on him and operating the vacuum cleaner. But there's thousand of other bits of rolling stock and over-scale buffered sidings can benefit from his finery... P Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71 Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 (edited) The overlapped welded seam which forms the roof joint looks cruel in the images but isn't that offensive when viewed at normal range. Likewise the fillet behind the angle iron, which is necessary for moulding and durability reasons, can only be seen from a close-up three-quarter angle; from a side view it's not noticeable at all. Silly mistakes like this Andy, when it is just as easy to the job right should be reflected in lower prices for bodged work and not some of the highest prices around for a two axle wagon. If I had workmen doing a job at home and they did similar, then I wouldn't be paying the full price unless they put it right. Dave Edited March 3, 2015 by Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 when it is just as easy to the job right That isn't necessarily the case Dave. If the unsupported angle iron had been part of the side moulding they could have had difficulty in releasing it from the mould without a high damage percentage. Therefore if it had been a separate item it would increase the cost further. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71 Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 (edited) the only superior ones I have seen have been scratchbuilt by experienced modellers. ....would you care to compare the individual points of the Acorn kits 4mm etched brass version with the Bachmann one, feature by feature, Andy? Dave Edited March 3, 2015 by Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 31A Posted March 3, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 3, 2015 Some of the real ones do seem to have had a pronounced ridge where the straight sides met the curved roof..... http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brgraincgo/h27a6d2c7#h9a07278 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 Some of the real ones do seem to have had a pronounced ridge where the straight sides met the curved roof..... http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brgraincgo/h27a6d2c7#h9a07278 As do the prototype pics of the wagon I know Bachmann referenced. P1100665.JPG P1100666.JPG bodge.jpg ....would you care to compare the individual points of the Acorn kits 4mm etched brass version with the Bachmann one, feature by feature, Andy? Dave Yeah; it looks good (haven't seen one made in the flesh) so I don't know why you're trying to trip me up Dave but I did use the words "I have seen". So how much is this Acorn kit; are they readily available and likely to turn out well for the average modeller and how long does it take to make, paint and decorate? Do they supply boltheads or not? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71 Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 (edited) .....£38 for two from Mercian Models Andy....already stated in this thread, as were the above pictures of them. I'm not trying to trip anyone up....merely ensuring that those spending £20+ on a should have been better version are informed of the alternative. Some rivets/boltheads are formed by using a punch from the inside of the etch....Archer provided the other rivet/bolthead detailing. Dave Edited March 3, 2015 by Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porcy Mane Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 P1100665.JPG Nice wagon repair label. P Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71 Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 (edited) Cheers Porcy, ....have a chat with Phil at Rail Exclusives....he does some that have the clip folding over the label now....but get your sharp eyesight working first...they're pretty small. Dave Edited March 3, 2015 by Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Enterprisingwestern Posted March 3, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 3, 2015 .....£38 for two from Mercian Models Andy....already stated in this thread, as were the above pictures of them. I'm not trying to trip anyone up....merely ensuring that those spending £20+ on a should have been better version are informed of the alternative. Some rivets/boltheads are formed by using a punch from the inside of the etch....Archer provided the other rivet/bolthead detailing. Dave If you could build my Acorn stash to that standard and come out at Bachmanns price Dave then you've got a job! Mike. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71 Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 (edited) Mornin' Mike, The route to the best result is the one that I always take Mike...combined with the desire to ensure that my layout has little suggestion of arriving in boxes and packets. This confidence and capability can only come about by modellers going through the learning curves themselves and direct comparisons such as the above should help with the necessary motivation. Dave Edited March 8, 2015 by Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 Each to their own. I tend to the impressionist end of modelling because my mission is to maximise time available for operation, and with a few wipes of filler, and treated to represent the copious dirt and rust these wagons always seemed to be coated with in traffic, they'll look fine. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad McCann Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 Fair enough, Dave. With proper photos now available I can see your assessment is justified. That said, unless I can 3D print my own Geoff Kent it's unlikely my requirements are likely to be fulfilled by scratchbuilding! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 P1100665.JPG P1100666.JPG bodge.jpg ....would you care to compare the individual points of the Acorn kits 4mm etched brass version with the Bachmann one, feature by feature, Andy? Dave you don't appear to be comparing models of the same wagon. The acorn kit is as the later through piped version and they don't appear to have the cantrail join which is very clear in many of my photos of unfitted wagons. I have collection of photos the piped wagons.Paul (from far away) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Enterprisingwestern Posted March 8, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 8, 2015 Trouble is Paul, some people don't let the facts get in the way of a good argument!! Mike. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71 Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 (edited) ....if the Bachmann model is acceptable in your eyes....fine....the cantrail representation isn't correct to me either way. I find the entire model to be crudely presented and it certainly doesn't benefit from being modelled almost completely in moulded plastic. The price being asked is also excessive for what you get for your money. This is a classic example of the need for a hybrid approach where the basic body shape is faithfully replicated in moulded plastic but an etched or else very finely moulded surround is used to maintain the character of the framing/supports. The days of excessive/inappropriate use of overthick moulded plastic should at least be questioned. As has been said above....each to their own preference. Dave Edited March 9, 2015 by Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 (edited) ....if the Bachmann model is acceptable in your eyes....fine....the cantrail representation isn't correct to me either way. I find the entire model to be crudely presented and it certainly doesn't benefit from being modelled almost completely in moulded plastic. The price being asked is also excessive for what you get for your money. This is a classic example of the need for a hybrid approach where the basic body shape is faithfully replicated in moulded plastic but an etched or else very finely moulded surround is used to maintain the character of the framing/supports. The days of excessive/inappropropriate use of overthick moulded plastic should at least be questioned. As has been said above....each to their own preference. Dave But Dave the acorn one is incorrect for the type Bachman have modelled. They used the one at BUtterley which is the last photo in my collection, and this has the cantrail. The model phot when enlarged makes it appear they have modelled the cantrail fairly thinly. I am thousands of Kms from my copy of DMS drawing. Earlier there was mention that they had intended a 'bauxite' version. This was based on an inappropriate catalogue photo as the vac braked wagons are a very different animal with a different wheelbase. Paul (Not too independent on this one! See the photo from 1950s of the early livery version they are doing, even to the incorrect position of the tonnage!) Edited March 9, 2015 by hmrspaul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71 Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 Hi Paul, I'm quite happy with the detail difference on the prototype (those with the cantrail strip and those without) but don't find the way in which this has been done on the plastic model to be convincing and would question the joint location as this further adds to the visual issues which I have with it. I accept that the Acorn kit would have to be modified to cover unfitted/unpiped examples but would much prefer to do just that, rather than start on a wide range of issues which I have with the plastic version. Cheers Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Woodcock Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 Hello Having seen various reviews of these any-one any idea when they are likely to arrive? Cheers George Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rembrow Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 Hello Having seen various reviews of these any-one any idea when they are likely to arrive? Cheers George Bachmann were showing them on their website as an April/May release, however last weeks update on their site changed that to May/June, they made the same change to the other expected items - Modified Halls and Brake 3rd Porthole coach, so would imagine a slight shipping delay. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium brushman47544 Posted May 5, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 5, 2015 Bachmann were showing them on their website as an April/May release, however last weeks update on their site changed that to May/June, they made the same change to the other expected items - Modified Halls and Brake 3rd Porthole coach, so would imagine a slight shipping delay. That would make sense as I'm sure I recall an item in MREMag a while back saying they were on their way from China. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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