Bachmann 20t Grain hoppers

[cctransuk]

.....some were blue John....see the Rail magazine article by Paul Bartlett....the hopper pictured in the thread corresponds with the one in his article. I have however since found various other images of these hoppers in blue.

 

Dave

 

Are you not thinking of the ice blue sugar COVHOPs ?

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[hmrspaul]

From 53A Flickr collection.

 

29/06/1980 - March, Cambridgeshire (colour).

ohttps://www.flickr.com/photos/blue-diesels/9948031744/in/dateposted/

OK see what you mean, but just one of the infinite BR grey, they have been a bit heavy handed with the blue that is part of the BR grey when they got the bucket out to mix it. No on second thoughts it is an original finish in BR freight stock red (it is a piped wagon) and a mix of mostly rust and some of the grey undercoat is showing through. It is a pity my photo of the same wagon apparently taken the day before is in b/w, but it wasn't always possible to afford colour slide. http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/brgraincgp/e1d16a02c

 

I have never heard of a blue finish on a BR grain, I am not aware any of them had special paint jobs (unlike as John suggests the various specials on unconverted and converted Covhops, which amongst others give us Blue Sugar covhops.

 

Paul

 

Paul Bartlett

[Porcy Mane]

Sorry to be contentious boys. Looks to me like that hopper was photographed in the same location. Same location but different sides. The same piles of white "stuff under each axle, same brake lever applied to the same inclination and the "not to go" label.

 

I can't say whether any of the grain hoppers came out in blue but am minded of the Esso class A tanks that were originally painted silver and were instructed to have there tanks panted Dove Grey at first overhaul/repaint to match the grey tanks of new Class A tanks then being built.

 

Even taking into account the colour cast caused by clear blue sky in the colour phots I have; and have seen, some of those early Esso repaints had a Duck Egg Blue (to use an old Humbrol description) hue to the tanks. Maybe it was the same with the Grain hoppers?

 

Dudley Docker with his paint company and wagon building/repair companies has a lot to answer for. No wonder Docker Juniors wife used to gold plate and paint her Daimlers Ivory. (and then use Zebra hides as a seat covering.)

 

P

[cctransuk]

From 53A Flickr collection.

 

29/06/1980 - March, Cambridgeshire (colour).

https://www.flickr.com/photos/blue-diesels/9948031744/in/dateposted/

 

Without a shadow of a doubt, what we see here is that purplish tinge that appears on the surface of active rust - nothing more, nothing less.

 

Regards,

John isherwood.

[Enterprisingwestern]

JustLiketheRealThing have released the Presstwin wagon in 7mm and it is selling.

The Presstwin was a distinctive member of the BR mid-fifties updating and modernisation of the BR wagon fleet.

I hope Bachmann sit up and take notice and release a Presstwin in 4mm

 

Which one?

 

Mike.

[Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71]

Mornin' all,

 

When modelling wagons I weather them to the appearance of the prototype. I don't mind whether the finish of the prototype is due to the shade of the undercoat/the original topcoat thinning or being faded/altered by sunlight/product carried over time, or whether the vehicle is washed/painted so infrequently that dirt build up/weathering have rendered it difficult to tell the shade that it is meant to be. I encountered ex works vac braked/unfitted wagons so rarely in BR days that I find it almost a waste of time considering using the so called authentic paint shade....far more accurate (to me) to mix around a dozen weathered shades of approximate colour(s) to what I observe on the prototype and apply them in a way which replicates the appearance of such.

 

This is a scan of Paul's image (used when I modelled the wagon in question), the green of the grass and the white of the handwheel suggest that any colour cast is marginal, also flat matte paintwork will reflect only marginal amounts of sky colour, therefore the colours contained in this picture are likely to be very close to the shades carried by the wagon on the day.....

 

 

 

.....juxtaposed for direct comparison.

 

Dave

Edited September 24, 2015 by Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71

[brushman47544]

Mornin' all,

 

When modelling wagons I weather them to the appearance of the prototype. I don't mind whether the finish of the prototype is due to the shade of the undercoat/the original topcoat flaking off or being faded/altered by sunlight/product carried over time, or whether the vehicle is painted so infrequently that dirt build up/weathering have rendered it difficult to tell the shade that it is meant to be. I encountered ex works vac braked/unfitted wagons so rarely in BR days that I find it almost a waste of time considering using the so called authentic paint shade....far more accurate (to me) to mix around a dozen weathered shades of a particular colour and apply them in a prototypical way.

 

This is a scan of Paul's image used when I modelled the wagon in question  

 

G.PNG

 

Dave

 

Interesting colour reproduction; it does look like a blue tinge. But then it could be partly the reflection from the blue sky, so I wonder how accurate it is and how much down to the magazine printing? I can't find that specific photo on Paul's website but it would be interesting to see Paul's original photo and the magazine version side by side.

[cctransuk]

Mornin' all,

 

When modelling wagons I weather them to the appearance of the prototype. I don't mind whether the finish of the prototype is due to the shade of the undercoat/the original topcoat flaking off or being faded/altered by sunlight/product carried over time, or whether the vehicle is painted so infrequently that dirt build up/weathering have rendered it difficult to tell the shade that it is meant to be. I encountered ex works vac braked/unfitted wagons so rarely in BR days that I find it almost a waste of time considering using the so called authentic paint shade....far more accurate (to me) to mix around a dozen weathered shades of a particular colour and apply them in a prototypical way.

 

This is a scan of Paul's image used when I modelled the wagon in question  

 

G.PNG

 

Dave

 

What we perceive in a photo is definitely not what we would have seen if we'd been there at the time. A photo is essentially two dimensional; the human brain interprets the three-dimensional object in quite a different manner, including the way that light is reflected.

 

Any apparent pale blue tinge in the above photo is merely a reflection of the sky above. A rusty wagon reflecting light? Yes - established rust has a sheen to its surface that can reflect light to some extent.

 

I cannot believe that a model, painted to represent the reflection of a blue sky from an obliquely photographed surface can in any way successfully reproduce the impression of the real thing as it appeared to the observer.

 

Bottom line - no GRAIN hoppers were painted pale blue, nor did they appear to be pale blue to the lineside observer.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71]

.....you are entitled to your opinion John but that is all it will ever be.

 

Dave

[cctransuk]

.....you are entitled to your opinion John but that is all it will ever be.

 

Dave

 

True - but it seems that I am not alone in holding it.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[hmrspaul]

Interesting colour reproduction; it does look like a blue tinge. But then it could be partly the reflection from the blue sky, so I wonder how accurate it is and how much down to the magazine printing? I can't find that specific photo on Paul's website but it would be interesting to see Paul's original photo and the magazine version side by side.

The original magazine article (which I had totally forgotten!) is Bayer, Gareth (2005) Rail Express Modeller Supplement no. 13 May 2005.Modeller’s guide to grain services. P X – XVI.

 

I don't know why the photo wasn't on the site, but I have now scanned it at http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/brgraincgp/e590f4119 It is a reasonable representation of the slide, although I do think the new software I am using (and the very old scanner does give  a blue cast). But I think Dave has made a good representation of this wagon. If you look the blueish finish is a top coat, it is not rust. I cannot give an explanation, but there is no trace of FSRed on any part that I can see, and the finish is similar on the shaded portions as on the part in the sun.

 

There are other photos of wagons taken in the same consist (but vac braked examples) at http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/brgraincgv/eb368692  http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/brgraincgv/e139f1f20  http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/brgraincgv/e1f6c3c0b   T'is a pity I couldn't afford to take more. There are others in the same traffic taken at Stanlow a year later. Others took photos on that same day in Birkenhead Docks (great days when places like that were wide open on a weekend!).

 

Generally these wagons which should have been in FSR seem very dark - except the air assisted Hydrated Lime conversions where the FSR is very clear. It is likely that these had a triple paint job (red/grey/red) like Presflo and Prestwin.

 

Paul Bartlett

Edited September 23, 2015 by hmrspaul

[cctransuk]

The original magazine article (which I had totally forgotten!) is Bayer, Gareth (2005) Rail Express Modeller Supplement no. 13 May 2005.Modeller’s guide to grain services. P X – XVI.

 

I don't know why the photo wasn't on the site, but I have now scanned it at http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/brgraincgp/e590f4119 It is a reasonable representation of the slide, although I do think the new software I am using (and the very old scanner does give  a blue cast). But I think Dave has made a good representation of this wagon. If you look the blueish finish is a top coat, it is not rust. I cannot give an explanation, but there is no trace of FSRed on any part that I can see, and the finish is similar on the shaded portions as on the part in the sun.

 

There are other photos of wagons taken in the same consist (but vac braked examples) at http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/brgraincgv/eb368692  http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/brgraincgv/e139f1f20  http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/brgraincgv/e1f6c3c0b   T'is a pity I couldn't afford to take more. There are others in the same traffic taken at Stanlow a year later. Others took photos on that same day in Birkenhead Docks (great days when places like that were wide open on a weekend!).

 

Generally these wagons which should have been in FSR seem very dark - except the air assisted Hydrated Lime conversions where the FSR is very clear. It is likely that these had a triple paint job (red/grey/red) like Presflo and Prestwin.

 

Paul Bartlett

 

I would certainly agree that Dave's model - now that we've seen it - is a good representation of what appears in your photo.

 

Regards,

John.

[Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71]

.....this is another case in point and yes I am aware that this is not a grain hopper...

 

http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/presfloslate/h1a1d1bce#h1a1d1bce

 

....I am currently modelling two Presflo ex ICI salt, as later Delabole slate powder hoppers. Yes I will use a very weathered ICI blue shade on the upper end parts of the models as per the prototype but the rest of the models will not display any blue shade.

 

Dave 

Edited September 23, 2015 by Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71

[Michael Delamar]

I've permission to use this shot from Dave Marks at Hooton in 1978, a trip working to the Levers factory at Port Sunlight. Staggered walways on the hoppers, conversions for sodium tripolyphosphate.

 

[Porcy Mane]

Going back to 2012 there's quite a nice grain hopper in this post.

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/61849-kirkcaldy-area/page-4&do=findComment&comment=813103

 

P

[Michael Delamar]

Shot of some with tarpaulins.

 

Print-B&W-042-Lichfield-Trant-Valley-4f-shunts-the-chord-flickr by derekphillips1, on Flickr

[John Tomlinson]

In a fit of un-informed enthusiasm, I bought an example of the "Worthington" grain hopper last week. It differs from the BR examples so far by having a long walkway on one side of the top of the hopper only. 

 

Can anyone tell me anything about these vehicles, and specifically can I apply a BR number to it and still keep the walkway?

 

Many thanks, 

 

John.

[26power]

On 08/10/2017 at 16:07, John Tomlinson said:

In a fit of un-informed enthusiasm, I bought an example of the "Worthington" grain hopper last week. It differs from the BR examples so far by having a long walkway on one side of the top of the hopper only. 

 

Can anyone tell me anything about these vehicles, and specifically can I apply a BR number to it and still keep the walkway?

 

Many thanks, 

 

John.

Anyone able to advise about this extra walkway?  Was it just  used on the two PO versions that Bachmann have done?  Does anyone have one/done anything with it,  and if so is the walkway just an extra moulding that can be removed easily?  Is that the only difference from the earlier Bachmann  BR versions, apart from livery?

 

Also, how different is the Worthington grey from the Bachmann version of BR grey, i.e. as on their earlier productions?

[hmrspaul]

On 08/10/2017 at 16:07, John Tomlinson said:

In a fit of un-informed enthusiasm, I bought an example of the "Worthington" grain hopper last week. It differs from the BR examples so far by having a long walkway on one side of the top of the hopper only. 

 

Can anyone tell me anything about these vehicles, and specifically can I apply a BR number to it and still keep the walkway?

 

Many thanks, 

 

John.

This gives some information. No, BR didn't have the Walkways. https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/bchgrain

 

Paul

[paul 27]

On ‎11‎/‎12‎/‎2015 at 14:03, Michael Delamar said:

I've permission to use this shot from Dave Marks at Hooton in 1978, a trip working to the Levers factory at Port Sunlight. Staggered walways on the hoppers, conversions for sodium tripolyphosphate.

 

Nice shot,  the centre Presstwin  appears taller is this one of the early ones produced.

Edited March 28, 2019 by paul 27