2 BIL to Blue BIL

[Colin parks]

After sitting for some number of months in its box, the Hornby 2 BIL has come under the knife for a few changes. The model is basically very good and can be happily left alone without any of what is about to befall this particular example.

 

The underframes need little attention other than the adding of air brake pipes and screw-couplings. The body sides will be largely left alone. I am not going to carve off the commode handles, but might excise the driver's door grab handles and replace them with slimmed-down Alan Gibson knobs and 0.4mm brass wire. The roofs will come in for the most attention/destruction!

 

Here we go then:

 

First on the list of 'to-do's' was to see if the glazing could be removed - with a view to ultimately re-painting this model in BR Blue, taking the opportunity of flattening the 'riveted' side detail down in the process.

With a deep breath, the trusty old Swann-Morton was applied to the fenestration of the trailer coach. Good start: the glazing came away without cracking any windows.

 

 

I have a Kirk 2 BIL which has far more detail inaccuracies (all added by me in ignorance of the facts) than the Hornby model. The Kirk 2 BIL (its motor coach is on the left) is destined for Oldlugger's work bench soon, minus its 00 gauge bogies and wrong-for-unit-number heavy duty buffers.

 

 

The back of the cab interior has an accurate representation of the conduit and switch gear/ fuse boxes. The cab interior will be re-painted in the strange hue of green which the BR(S) painted these interiors in due course.

 

 

One change unexpectedly to be added to the 'list' is changing the air horns. Two of the same size would just go: "di-di", not "di-dah"! So these items will be swapped for two pairs of long/short horns(1 set for each cab).

 

 

The DTC has an 8'9" motor bogie fitted.

 

 

This will be changed for an 8'9" trailing pick-up bogie. (Shown is my Kirk model, incorrect as it has straight guard irons instead of cranked ones.) The main differences between the two types of bogie is that the traling pick-up bogies had shallower side frames and the brake linkage was between the wheels rather than in front of them. There are also a tie-bars between the W-irons, but this is hard to see behind the shoe beams. (Note the disparity in depth of the beams - also to be dealt with on the motor bogie.)

 

 

Colin

Edited August 10, 2013 by Colin parks

[SRman]

I have a Hornby BIL bought cheaply from TheModeller .com that I intend to paint BR blue too. Straight away your post has allayed any fears I had of cracking windows as I remove them.

I will be watching this topic with great interest (as with all your other topics, for that matter!!). Once again, I am happy to watch others' efforts and errors (hopefully not!) to learn what I should do.

[Colin parks]

I have a Hornby BIL bought cheaply from TheModeller .com that I intend to paint BR blue too. Straight away your post has allayed any fears I had of cracking windows as I remove them.

 

I will be watching this topic with great interest (as with all your other topics, for that matter!!). Once again, I am happy to watch others' efforts and errors (hopefully not!) to learn what I should do.

Hi SRman,

 

The windows are now all removed. The DMBS ones were more difficult to prise away from the body, as the person who assembled the model had used more glue. Having said that, no windows are cracked and the only damage to repair is one broken clip which has parted company from the driver's window on one side.

 

I wouldn't recommend removing the windows of the 2 BIL to anyone, because it seems each model will have differing amounts of glue attaching the glazing. If you do decide to have a go, levering upwards with the tip of a sharp knife just above the lower glue line is best. Hornby have quite helpfully left vertical expansion gaps in the glazing strips for the blade to go into.

 

All the best,

 

Colin

[Colin parks]

Well as mentioned above, the glazing in the motor coach (DMBS) put up more of a fight. This coach had more glue around the body clips which are part of the glazing. Broke one clip(and the tip of the knife)!

 

 

In the top corner above the toilet window another small piece of the glazing strip was left behind, but nothing that will cause problems. On the corridor side of the DMBS, there was very little glue above the widow line , with the top edge of the strip just held by lugs protruding down from the underside of the roof. This accounts for why some of the windows were at a slight angle to the side.

 

 

For anyone really wanting a 'blue' BIL, levering up the glazing strip with the point of a knife half way between the bottom edge and the window, then working along the glue line as it breaks worked for me. As shown here.

 

 

 

The glazing is already carefully tacked onto paper with all-purpose glue and will be stored away, but you get the idea. The yellowish patches of remnant glue can be made out. The glue will be carefully scraped away before re-fitting the windows post-painting.

 

 

 

Colin

[Colin parks]

One last one for now showing the horns, water strip down-pipes, driver's door grab handles, horns and MU cables removed. There is some residual paint left from the handles on the door reveals. Bit of careful sanding to be done there. One of the main reasons to re-paint this 2 BIL is to tone down the rivetted look. I am absolutely certain that the steel sheeting on these units' bodies was fixed with screws, which were more discrete. The extra coats of paint should submerge the 'rivets' a bit.

 

 

All being well, I should be able to buy some brass knobs today for holding the grab handles. The centre MU cable will be made from .009" guitar string i.e. much thinner. The left and right hand MU cables will probably be replaced by ones fashioned from 0.5mm plastic rod. The air horns will be my usual turned brass affairs.

 

The wiper will be set level. I don't think my plastic driver would want it across his field of vision like that!

 

Colin

Edited July 6, 2013 by Colin parks

[railroadbill]

Hi Colin,

Impressive paintwork on your Kirk 2Bil - can I ask what paint you used?  Are they Gibson knobs on the cab handrails? Have some to use on a steam loco upgrade.

Very interesting thread,thanks.

Bill

[Colin parks]

Hi Colin,

Impressive paintwork on your Kirk 2Bil - can I ask what paint you used?  Are they Gibson knobs on the cab handrails? Have some to use on a steam loco upgrade.

Very interesting thread,thanks.

Bill

Hi Bill,

 

Thanks for your comment re. the Kirk 2 BIL. It is in its second guise, having previously been painted too dark a shade of green. The paint is Precision Paints' BR Southern region EMU Green, though I forget the number. It was dusted down with some black Tailors' chalk to take the brightness away somewhat. The knobs are unbranded from the local model shop, but they probably are of Gibson manufacture.

 

For the Hornby BIL, the knobs will be reduced by holding them in a pin-chuck held in turn in a lathe and turned at the highest speed setting. A fine needle file will do the job of removing the shoulder at the base of the knob as well as gently filing the knob itself. This was not done for the Kirk BIL as I had not worked out how to perform this process back then.

 

All the best,

 

Colin

[BernardTPM]

The Hornby and Farish Class 60s suffer from 'goose pimples' too. Here the real thing has pop rivets instead of screws but they are similarly discrete. I occured to me that it might be possible to shave the rivet heads away with a sharp knife to leave just an almost but not quite flush disc shape that might represent a screw head rather better than a raised dome.

[Colin parks]

The Hornby and Farish Class 60s suffer from 'goose pimples' too. Here the real thing has pop rivets instead of screws but they are similarly discrete. I occured to me that it might be possible to shave the rivet heads away with a sharp knife to leave just an almost but not quite flush disc shape that might represent a screw head rather better than a raised dome.

Hi Bernard,

 

The rivets are so small (inverse to their visual impact) that I am going to try 800 grade wet and dry to flatten them to half the height. As you say, the fixings were not pointed in reality. it looks as though just the merest touch would 'bruise' the Hornby 2 BIL rivets, so an experiment will be done on part of the body which is not so prominent - I don't want to lose them altogether. The 2 BIL roof domes were riveted though - just my luck, as it will be difficult to preserve the rivet detail around the moulded-on cab ventilator as it is removed. Masking tape should offer some protection if the needle file strays slightly.

 

All the best,

 

Colin

[5Bel]

Hi Colin,

 

Looking forward to this project. I intend doing a similar thing when I get round to buying one (or two!) It has occured to me that if I buy two units and replace the incorrect pick up bogies with Roxey units then I could use one of the incorrect dummy motor bogies under a non powered 2Bil. With me so far? You then have two motor bogies, one powered and one unpowered. These could then go under another unit, 4Sub or 4Lav, or maybe a couple of two car units. Are you having any luck with the lamp tops?

 

Cheers for now, Ian.

[Colin parks]

Hi Colin,

 

Looking forward to this project. I intend doing a similar thing when I get round to buying one (or two!) It has occured to me that if I buy two units and replace the incorrect pick up bogies with Roxey units then I could use one of the incorrect dummy motor bogies under a non powered 2Bil. With me so far? You then have two motor bogies, one powered and one unpowered. These could then go under another unit, 4Sub or 4Lav, or maybe a couple of two car units. Are you having any luck with the lamp tops?

 

Cheers for now, Ian.

We think alike Ian!

 

There are many permutations to choose from with your plan.  It is certain that you will be able to haul an un-powered Hornby 2 BIL with a powered one - but beware, the DMBS floor/chassis is die-cast so still quite heavy even minus its motor unit and metal housing.  I do hope Roxey have plenty of trailing pick-up bogies in stock!

 

My plan is this: the trailing pick-up bogie of the Kirk 2 BIL is going under the Hornby 2 BIL's trailer coach.  That leaves the un-motorised Hornby motor bogie spare for the 4 SUB project.  The Branchlines/Black Beetle motorised motor bogies from the Kirk 2 BIL will power the 4 SUB and will be far enough away on a 4-car unit for any detail differences with the Hornby one not to notice (although it probably will, having said that!).

 

All the best,

 

Colin

 

Lamp tops = no luck as yet.

Edited July 6, 2013 by Colin parks

[bazza.]

After sitting for some number of months in its box, the Hornby 2 BIL has come under the knife for a few changes. The model is basically very good and can be happily left alone without any of what is about to befall this particular example.

 

The underframes need little attention other than the adding of air brake pipes and screw-couplings. The body sides will be largely left alone. I am not going to carve off the commode handles, but might excise the driver's door grab handles and replace them with slimmed-down Alan Gibson knobs and 0.4mm brass wire. The roofs will come in for the most attention/destruction!

 

Here we go then:

 

First on the list of 'to-do's' was to see if the glazing could be removed - with a view to ultimately re-painting this model in BR Blue, taking the opportunity of flattening the 'riveted' side detail down in the process.

With a deep breath, the trusty old Swann-Morton was applied to the fenestration of the trailer coach. Good start: the glazing came away without cracking any windows.

 

IMG_6589 (1024x768).jpg

 

I have a Kirk 2 BIL which has far more detail inaccuracies (all added by me in ignorance of the facts) than the Hornby model. The Kirk 2 BIL (its motor coach is on the left) is destined for Oldlugger's work bench soon, minus its 00 gauge bogies and wrong-for-unit-number heavy duty buffers.

 

IMG_6594 (1024x768).jpg

 

The back of the cab interior has an accurate representation of the conduit and switch gear/ fuse boxes. The cab interior will be re-painted in the strange hue of green which the BR(S) painted these interiors in due course.

 

IMG_6590.JPG

 

One change unexpectedly to be added to the 'list' is changing the air horns. Two of the same size would just go: "di-di", not "di-dah"! So these items will be swapped for two pairs of long/short horns(1 set for each cab).

 

IMG_6595.JPG

 

The DTC has an 8'9" motor bogie fitted.

 

IMG_6598 (1024x768).jpg

 

This will be changed for an 8'9" trailing pick-up bogie. (Shown is my Kirk model, incorrect as it has straight guard irons instead of cranked ones.) The main differences between the two types of bogie is that the traling pick-up bogies had shallower side frames and the brake linkage was between the wheels rather than in front of them. There are also a tie-bars between the W-irons, but this is hard to see behind the shoe beams. (Note the disparity in depth of the beams - also to be dealt with on the motor bogie.)

 

IMG_6599 (1024x768).jpg

 

Colin

Hi Colin,

 

Good to see this new topic, it should be a good forum for modellers!

 

Although some said that it might not be possible, I have successfully converted my Hornby 2BIL to P4.

 

It was intersting reading your coments about the Kirk 2BIL kit, as I was thinking of using the Hornby 2Bil to pull/propel one or even two Ian Kirk dummy 2BIL kits.

 

Do you think that the Ian Kirk 2BIL model has far too many detail inaccuracies to correct as compaired to the Hornby model?

 

I am looking forward to following your project, but I will skip the bit about removing the glazing, as I am modelling the period 1955 to 1965 ( 2Nol to 4CIG) all passenger stock will be green, and no need to repaint my 2BIL.

 

Even though Hornby's SR green on the model is a slightly lighter shade of green to the Humbrol HR113 BR Multi Unit Stock Green hobby paint that I have used on my models of SR electric units.

 

All the best

 

Bazza

[Colin parks]

Hi Colin,

 

Good to see this new topic, it should be a good forum for modellers!

 

Although some said that it might not be possible, I have successfully converted my Hornby 2BIL to P4.

 

It was intersting reading your coments about the Kirk 2BIL kit, as I was thinking of using the Hornby 2Bil to pull/propel one or even two Ian Kirk dummy 2BIL kits.

 

Do you think that the Ian Kirk 2BIL model has far too many detail inaccuracies to correct as compaired to the Hornby model?

 

I am looking forward to following your project, but I will skip the bit about removing the glazing, as I am modelling the period 1955 to 1965 ( 2Nol to 4CIG) all passenger stock will be green, and no need to repaint my 2BIL.

 

Even though Hornby's SR green on the model is a slightly lighter shade of green to the Humbrol HR113 BR Multi Unit Stock Green hobby paint that I have used on my models of SR electric units.

 

All the best

 

Bazza

Hi Bazza,

 

I did see how you had converted the Hornby 2 BIL to P4 (did press one of the 'buttons' too!).  Your model did look very much better with the scale wheels.  There are a few other changes you could make without causing controlled damage to the body.  More of that in the coming weeks.  As I said, the re-painting is also to submerge the rivets on the body side sheeting as well as getting the unit into 1971 condition. (Some 2 BILs were never re-painted in blue, but did receive full yellow ends before withdrawal in the early seventies, so the livery chosen is a matter of personal preference in this case.)

 

If you have some Kirk 2 BIL kits you are indeed lucky as they are not being produced at present.  However, with the total cost of building the kit, maybe de-motorising some Hornby models would be cheaper.  As you might have read above, 5 BEL is intending to do this.  The Hornby motor coach has a metal chassis which ought to be capable of hauling several un-powered units.

 

That is not to say that the Kirk 2 BIL cannot be made very presentable, even without flush-glazing.  The Kirk model shown in the first post on this topic did run at exhibitions and looked the part.  However,  it has many faults, all down to me, due to lack of information at the time six years ago when it was made: round roof ventilators, wrong buffers for the unit 2064 (they were all of the thinner type until  2117), vacuum brake pipes instead of air pipes, bent wire commode handles as I didn't know about the Roxey ones then, etc., etc..  But all this will be sorted out by its new owner, Oldlugger, who will no doubt make a for better job of it than I did.

 

Re. paint shades of green, Precision Paints make a very good match.  I will rummage around to see what the paint code is later on.  Bearing in mind that the old SR units were re-varnished* every few years by BR, perhaps there is no definitive shade of BR(S) green as the process tended to darken the body colour. Added to that, the bleaching effects of residual carriage washing fluid, the livery was not exactly uniform.  The Hornby colour looks pretty good to me. 

 

* According to all authors whose books I have read, 're-varnishing' was a term used by BR staff for literally cleaning and applying a new coat of varnish to an old unit.  But the same authors state that it was a term also apparently used when in fact re-painting was what actually intended/ carried out.

 

All the best,

 

Colin

Edited July 7, 2013 by Colin parks

[HAB]

 

If you have some Kirk 2 BIL kits you are indeed lucky as they are not being produced at present.  

 

Not quite true Colin, they are now being produced by CooperCraft.

 

http://shop.cooper-craft.co.uk

 

 

Though they are not listed in the site just now, I know that he has had a number made and a phone call (44 (0)1823 461961) should do the necessary.  He is also offering the ex Blacksmith tin Hal (already on the site) and I understand that the ex Blacksmith 4 Sub is also not far away - just waiting a few castings.

 

 

Just on the topic of removing glazing, seeing Lazerglaze was available for the 2 EPB, I bought a couple of sets - but (especially given that there was glue all over the shop) was very nervous about knocking out the old glazing. But, by tapping on the outside of each window in turn with the bunt end of a scalpel I was amazed that, without too much pain, it fell out intact!

 

The result was well worth the effort I think.

 

Good luck with the project - following with interest!

 

Also, since Bazza mentioned it, I would say that I converted my Bil to P4 in not much more than an hour so I would not want anyone to think it was too difficult!  I have acquired a number of spare motor bogies for future projects since they are so easy to convert and run so nicely!

 

Best wishes,

 

Howard

[Enterprisingwestern]

 there was very little glue above the widow line

 

Could married or single women not travel on 2Bils then?

 

Mike.

[Colin parks]

Not quite true Colin, they are now being produced by CooperCraft.

 

http://shop.cooper-craft.co.uk

 

 

Though they are not listed in the site just now, I know that he has had a number made and a phone call (44 (0)1823 461961) should do the necessary.  He is also offering the ex Blacksmith tin Hal (already on the site) and I understand that the ex Blacksmith 4 Sub is also not far away - just waiting a few castings.

 

 

Just on the topic of removing glazing, seeing Lazerglaze was available for the 2 EPB, I bought a couple of sets - but (especially given that there was glue all over the shop) was very nervous about knocking out the old glazing. But, by tapping on the outside of each window in turn with the bunt end of a scalpel I was amazed that, without too much pain, it fell out intact!

 

The result was well worth the effort I think.

 

Good luck with the project - following with interest!

 

Also, since Bazza mentioned it, I would say that I converted my Bil to P4 in not much more than an hour so I would not want anyone to think it was too difficult!  I have acquired a number of spare motor bogies for future projects since they are so easy to convert and run so nicely!

 

Best wishes,

 

Howard

Thanks Howard,

 

Unless I've missed something, the Kirk 2 BIL moulds are still owned by Colin Ashby and I was told recently by a supplier that production has been sporadic of late to say the least.  Good to know the kit is still about though! 

 

Re. glazing and the removal thereof, Hornby have changed to something a little more bodger-friendly recently and as you say Bachmann glue fractures easily too.  The glue that held the glazing into the Hornby class 73 that I attempted to remove (only last year) absolutely wouldn't budge.

 

Changing the wheels is quite easy as you say, with the installation of P4 wheel-sets being the ultimate improvement.  My model will retain its Hornby wheels with turned-down flanges.  The present Hornby motor bogies are pretty good for £18/19.00.  I have got mine (in the 4 COR, which is of the same basic design) running on Bachmann 36-553 DCC decoders with the back-emf set for the best slow running.   

 

All the best,

 

Colin

 

Could married or single women not travel on 2Bils then?

 

Mike

Oops!

 

Coli

Edited July 7, 2013 by Colin parks

[HAB]

Unless I've missed something, the Kirk 2 BIL moulds are still owned by Colin Ashby and I was told recently by a supplier that production has been sporadic of late to say the least.  Good to know the kit is still about though! 

 

Although I could not comment on who actually owns what, I spoke to Paul Dunn (Coopercraft) at a recent exhibition and he definitely had quite a pile of mouldings with him!  I will no doubt see him at Scaleforum, so I shall press further then if nothing appears on the website.  

 

We do need to support the Pauls of this world - as custodian of this kit and the ex Blacksmith ones there is a lot riding on his success - perhaps I should buy a tin Hal!

 

Best wishes,

 

Howard.

[Colin parks]

Hi Howard,

 

Good to hear about that 2 BIL kit pile.

 

Go on, buy a Tin HAL, they had an identical chassis to the 2 BIL I believe (well, mine has). Radical thought: fit the kit-built Tin HAL bodies + interiors to the Hornby 2 BIL chassis.

 

All the best,

 

Colin

[Gwiwer]

 I am absolutely certain that the steel sheeting on these units' bodies was fixed with screws, which were more discrete.Colin

 

http://www.semgonline.com/gallery/pics/mm_2bils.jpg

 

Although monochrome this image m ight help to serve the purpose.  Bil panels were screwed but the heads were substantial and resembled carriage bolts as seen.  I believe based on some knowledge of 2090 that the unit was laser-scanned and these screw heads have translated into large bolt heads on the model which are moderately over-scale. 

 

Here's a coloured image which also suggests Hornby's rendering of the green is correct for the 1950s

 

 

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7183/6782806762_49a30c57f0_b.jpg

[Enterprisingwestern]

For HAL/BIL information;

 

http://www.electrifyingtrains.co.uk/HAL-BIL_variations_-_prototype_information_v.1.pdf

 

Mike.

[HAB]

 

Here's a coloured image which also suggests Hornby's rendering of the green is correct for the 1950s

 

... but it is also proof that the NRM gets things wrong - TTBOMK shoe beams, fuse boxes and arc chutes were "never" painted black - they were either clear or (later) anti-track-grey varnished. When I got my Hornby Bil I could only get the NRM version and was more than a bit surprised to see it had black shoe beams etc!

 

Just in passing - does anyone know at what date the grey anti-track came into use?  Similarly, when did cab interiors become the anti-dazzle green?

 

Cheers,

 

Howard

[Colin parks]

http://www.semgonline.com/gallery/pics/mm_2bils.jpg

 

Although monochrome this image m ight help to serve the purpose.  Bil panels were screwed but the heads were substantial and resembled carriage bolts as seen.  I believe based on some knowledge of 2090 that the unit was laser-scanned and these screw heads have translated into large bolt heads on the model which are moderately over-scale. 

 

Here's a coloured image which also suggests Hornby's rendering of the green is correct for the 1950s

 

 

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7183/6782806762_49a30c57f0_b.jpg

Hi Rick,

 

Re. screws,  I shall only be toning down the effect of the Hornby rendition of the fixings, as they seem a little sharp.  The 4 COR motor coach I saw at the Bluebell railway appeared to have No. 12 pan-head screws from what could be made out under the paint. 

 

Whatever they really were, it is not going to be as easy as sanding the things off the model completely, so some consistent method of flattening them will have to be found.  It had occurred to me to just squash them with the back of a small  handle or something.  Conversely, the model's door bangs look under-scale. 

 

As I'm going for BR blue, at least the 'shade of green' debate won't be an issue!

 

All the best,

 

Colin

 

Edit:  Which bit doesn't make sense Dave?!

Edited July 8, 2013 by Colin parks

[Colin parks]

... but it is also proof that the NRM gets things wrong - TTBOMK shoe beams, fuse boxes and arc chutes were "never" painted black - they were either clear or (later) anti-track-grey varnished. When I got my Hornby Bil I could only get the NRM version and was more than a bit surprised to see it had black shoe beams etc!

 

Just in passing - does anyone know at what date the grey anti-track came into use?  Similarly, when did cab interiors become the anti-dazzle green?

 

Cheers,

 

Howard

Hi Howard,

 

I have just worked out who you are - I think!  We spoke at the Derby show last year didn't we?!

 

All the best,

 

Colin

Edited July 8, 2013 by Colin parks

[HAB]

Hi Howard,

 

I have just worked out who you are - I think!  We spoke at the Derby show last year didn't we?!

 

All the best,

 

Colin

 

Spot on - I'm the one who could not extract his nose from your EMUs - good memory that man!

 

And this is the point rodding I was wittering on about!

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/71121-third-rail-experiments/

 

 

Best wishes.

[bazza.]

Hi Bazza,

 

I did see how you had converted the Hornby 2 BIL to P4 (did press one of the 'buttons' too!).  Your model did look very much better with the scale wheels.  There are a few other changes you could make without causing controlled damage to the body.  More of that in the coming weeks.  As I said, the re-painting is also to submerge the rivets on the body side sheeting as well as getting the unit into 1971 condition. (Some 2 BILs were never re-painted in blue, but did receive full yellow ends before withdrawal in the early seventies, so the livery chosen is a matter of personal preference in this case.)

 

If you have some Kirk 2 BIL kits you are indeed lucky as they are not being produced at present.  However, with the total cost of building the kit, maybe de-motorising some Hornby models would be cheaper.  As you might have read above, 5 BEL is intending to do this.  The Hornby motor coach has a metal chassis which ought to be capable of hauling several un-powered units.

 

That is not to say that the Kirk 2 BIL cannot be made very presentable, even without flush-glazing.  The Kirk model shown in the first post on this topic did run at exhibitions and looked the part.  However,  it has many faults, all down to me, due to lack of information at the time six years ago when it was made: round roof ventilators, wrong buffers for the unit 2064 (they were all of the thinner type until  2117), vacuum brake pipes instead of air pipes, bent wire commode handles as I didn't know about the Roxey ones then, etc., etc..  But all this will be sorted out by its new owner, Oldlugger, who will no doubt make a for better job of it than I did.

 

Re. paint shades of green, Precision Paints make a very good match.  I will rummage around to see what the paint code is later on.  Bearing in mind that the old SR units were re-varnished* every few years by BR, perhaps there is no definitive shade of BR(S) green as the process tended to darken the body colour. Added to that, the bleaching effects of residual carriage washing fluid, the livery was not exactly uniform.  The Hornby colour looks pretty good to me. 

 

* According to all authors whose books I have read, 're-varnishing' was a term used by BR staff for literally cleaning and applying a new coat of varnish to an old unit.  But the same authors state that it was a term also apparently used when in fact re-painting was what actually intended/ carried out.

 

All the best,

 

Colin

Hi Colin,

 

I look forward to following your topic on the 2BIL, and as I have purchased one of Hornby's 2BIL models, I think that I have a sort of vested interest in your project.

 

Like you, due to the lack of informationat the time, in my case no internet, few SR emu books, and 12,000 miles from the prototype, at the time over 40 years ago when I built my 4COR, 4BUF, and 6PAN models, they have many faults, made all the more oblivious after following your excellent 4COR build topic. Perhaps it is time for me to retro-fit roof lighting conduits and more underframe details to these models

 

Re. the SR geeen paint, some years ago a colleague in the UK sent to me a paint swatch containing genuine BR malachite Coach Green No11 paint. This paint originated from the Eastleigh Loco Works Paint Shop. Thje paint on this card it is the natural paint colour finish without varnishing. 

 

At the same time this same colleague sent to me a Dulux shade card for "Woodland Fern1" 90GY 08/187 which in his opinion was very close in colour to BR malachite (Coach Green no. 11) and went on to say that SR carriage paint schemes consisted of a total of about 12 coats of primer/paint/varnish.

 

And apparently carrages were revarnished at one to two year intervals, and even SR malachite paint from the 1940's when revarnished became daker and yellower until it could appear indistinguishable from the newer BR malachite green. Preparations for the revarnishing process in some cases involved removal of the surface coats including lining/lettering without interfering with the basic body colour.

 

Over the years I have used this colour swatch from Eastleigh paint shop as my colour reference point for BR malachite green. It is very close in colour to Humbrol HR113 and Railmatch 307.

 

So I'll skip your section on removing the glazing and perhaps give the Hornby 2BIL a light spray of Humbrol satin varnish no. 135 which tends to yellow with age, bearing in mind that no two sets of multiple units or rakes of carrages were ever the same colour in sevice.

 

 

Regards

 

Bazza

Edited July 9, 2013 by bazza.